Sonic Youth: Classic or Dud/S&D?

Also a Metal Machine Music sample xp

Yeah, there's boots and live albums from the 80s with them playing cut-up Madonna tracks and Beach Boys stuff over the PA. P sure there's some of that on the infamous Walls Have Ears semi-boot.

OK, I stand semi-corrected, especially if a couple of them were making noise themselves while another tuned, or if they used prerecorded collages. But in the Gore piece Moore does specifically mention the Neil Young tour, where they supposedly used "War Pigs," "Rico Suave," Karen Carpenter and a Ligeti piece.

This set list from Sacramento from that tour lists those samples.
http://www.sonicyouth.com/mustang/cc/040791.html

Interesting! Maybe that clip I posted has them in it, too? I honestly just skipped around.

BTW, that AVClub piece, rankings aside, is otm when it comes to "100%." What a ton of fun that song is. I remember seeing the Thermals open with it (for some reason) at the Pitchfork Fest, and the crowd response was, well, 100%.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LQPQLd9v2c

Lol the Orlando clip begins with a Carpenters sample! Around 0:30.

I just figured it was their intro music, lol.

I think it's "Rico Suave" around 24:10 here? Similar beat anyway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbTtU7z9YyU

oh shit -- they and Neil Young played in Miami!

My rankings change all the time, but here's where I'd put them as of today:

Daydream Nation
Murray Street
Washing Machine
Sister
Bad Moon Rising
Evol
Dirty
The Eternal
A Thousand Leaves
Sonic Nurse
Experimental Jet Set
Goo
Rather Ripped
NYC Ghosts & Flowers
Confusion is Sex

Sister
Daydream Nation
Evol
Sonic Nurse
Murray Street
Bad Moon Rising
Washing Machine
Goo
A Thousand Leaves
Dirty
Sonic Youth
NYC Ghosts & Flowers
Experimental Jet Set
Rather Ripped

^not a downright bad one in the lot, still have never heard Confusion is Sex and The Eternal, I realize

Yeah, there's boots and live albums from the 80s with them playing cut-up Madonna tracks and Beach Boys stuff over the PA. P sure there's some of that on the infamous Walls Have Ears semi-boot.

Yeah, there isn't a bad one in the batch. I mean, Goo is a great album and still ends up in the bottom third for me.

Sister
Daydream Nation
Sonic Nurse
EVOL
Experimental Jet Set, Trash and No Star
A Thousand Leaves
Rather Ripped
Dirty
Murray Street
Goo
The Eternal
Washing Machine
NYC Ghosts & Flowers
Confusion is Sex
Bad Moon Rising

Bad Moon Rising
EVOL
Sister
Daydream Nation
Confusion Is Sex
------
Don't care

Don't care is underrated.

their rare shel silverstein cover available only on import 7"

Psychic Hearts
"Teen Age Riot"
"Winner's Blues"
some other tracks on Jet Set
I remember Murray St. being good...
----

As mentioned in the Dirty thread, I'm diving into them today (I had a bad experience with being disappointed by Daydream Nation back in the days when I should have been spending CD-money on food and have mostly avoided them ever since). Anyway, I am almost through my first pick - Washing Machine - and I think I might like it even better than Dirty!

Washing Machine is a masterpiece.

S tier:
Sister

A tier:
S/t
Confusion Is Sex
Bad Moon Rising
Evol
Daydream Nation
Goodbye 20th Century
Murray Street

B tier:
Goo
Dirty
Washing Machine
SYR 1, 2, 3, 6, 7
A Thousand Leaves
Hidros 3
Sonic Nurse
Rather Ripped

C tier:
NYC Ghosts & Flowers
SYR 8, 9

D tier:
Experimental Jet Set, Trash, and No Star
The Eternal

E tier:
The Whitey Album

a thousand leaves
washing machine
murray street
daydream nation
sonic nurse
evol
bad moon rising
sister
dirty
goo
rather ripped
nyc ghosts
confusion
experimental

The wild thing about this band is how many of their albums could top someone's list and not earn a raised eyebrow.

Evol
Daydream Nation
Dirty
Sonic Nurse
Goo
Sister
Murray Street
Rather Ripped
Confusion Is Sex
A Thousand Leaves
Washing Machine
Bad Moon Rising
Experimental Jet Set
The Eternal
NYC Ghosts & Flowers

It's a really solid catalogue all things considered, like only the bottom three there I'd rate below a 7/10.

You guys and Jet Set, ha ha...

I'm revisiting it now – the core of the album (I guess from "Screaming Skull" thru "Tokyo Eye") is the stuff for me; that minimal punk-blooze... pretty much all the SY I need.

tokyo eye is really good

both points otm

Sister
EVOL
Bad Moon Rising
Confusion Is Sex
Sonic Youth
------
Don't care

Probably because I was also checking out a bunch of Krautrock for the first time when it came out new; I always thought 'Washing Machine' was SY's version of that type of music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvmTidDMi74

Glad you found the Heetderks paper helpful, Deflatormouse. I thought it was very good myself.

Thank you. Yes, Heetderks OTM. If you were to post more articles like this to ILM I'd probably enjoy them.

The part where he talks about how Thurston envied the HC kids for their narrower frame of reference is maybe a clearer explanation of SY's own limitations than I've come across. That is to say I agree Harold Bloom is a useful framework in their case, or vice-versa.

Thanks all for info and links on the live sets. I am mostly interested in early examples of this but these are great, too.

In/Out/In sounding great on this spring morning. Has the prettiness of the latter era, but is a bit looser, jammier, rawer.

Been exploring more of their career lately. The "Confusion is Sex" run up to "Sister" is just so so good, skipping DN (because I know it well) and then onto their Grunge years atm. Goo/Dirty and it's kinda interesting how they've pared down their sound a bit more and are settling into very slightly different 'groove', if you like. The albums are just longer and I think it's somewhat harder to keep my interest.

On Experimental, Jet, rn.

The "Confusion is Sex" run up to "Sister" is just so so good

i revisit this era every so often and rarely ever want to skip any of it. it is so good! in fact i find it hard to get beyond these albums, but will give later eras another go soon.

The "Confusion is Sex" run up to "Sister" is just so so good

Yeah, it's great stuff. I had the same reaction when re-listening to Sonic Youth a while ago. After that they somehow lost their intensity - I genuinely don't understand the appeal of the sprawling 'Daydream Nation'.

It’s Dirty that starts to lose me altho I can stay awake for most of it; I find Jet Set all but unlistenable and while I do understand the appeal of the stuff from Washing Machine on, it just doesn’t stick with me.

Sister > the perfectly pleasant but basically empty shit that came after it

Sister, Goo, and Rather Ripped are my SY tentpoles. Everything else depends on what mood I'm in, but I haven't yet ever found an occasion that makes me like NYC Ghosts.

i really don’t understand not liking washing machine

After that they somehow lost their intensity - I genuinely don't understand the appeal of the sprawling 'Daydream Nation'.

― Portsmouth Bubblejet, Sunday, 3 July 2022 bookmarkflaglink

So far I'm kinda like DN is the album they were really trying hard to repeat post-the year punk broke (lol) and are failing so far. I had to stop after "Bone" on Jet Set and revisit Daydream Nation and there is nothing like "Teenage Riot" or "Eric's Trip" in these albums. That marriage of tunes and tuneage craziness. Not saying these are hits with a bit more promotional money but...The 7 minute + epics are all still really working for me. How good are those last minutes of "The Sprawl". The coming back and out from those dissonant jams on "Total Thrash" are just perfect.

But I am onto Washing Machine next.

How good are those last minutes of "The Sprawl".

Not trolling, but I think those minutes are dull… just sort of flaccid noodling. At least Jet Set is tight and focused, which is when I think this band is at their best.

Love all of it.

I remember interviewing Lou Barlow and him telling me DN was where he stepped off the train - that he found its considered, sculptured big rock moves boring and like Led Zeppelin. I loved SY so much that for me it's just a different vibe, a different headspace they were in, but the slow building insurgent classic majesty of those tracks has echoes, I feel, in Washing Machine and Murray Street. But I love Jet Set equally, for all its haphazard, in-the-moment invention - it's equally valid. They really did contain multitudes.

"Not trolling, but I think those minutes are dull… just sort of flaccid noodling."

The layer of distortion underneath the noodly melody is what keep it from being just that.

Also what pulls it away from a casual rock move, too.

One of my all time faves bands but DN never hits for me apart from a strong opening

I'm a huge SY fan and own every album (many on multiple formats) plus plenty of inessential annex and solo releases. Hell, I even have three SY posters from their NZ tours in my apartment (DN, Dirty and Thousand Leaves). All of which is to say - I take ruminations on the best SY album very, very seriously.

Their best record is EVOL. Hands down. It perfectly melds the spooky atmospherics of Bad Moon Rising with the nascent pop songcraft they would later master on the next three albums. All the essential SY elements are there - touches of the avant-garde, blistering noise, interlocked tremelo guitars, pop culture references galore, and a detached winking cool. It perfectly captures a band in transition, experimenting with their sound and songwriting, and absolutely nailing it. The atmosphere is unreal, and Kim's vocal work is astounding. They wouldn't sound so assured in their willingness to push the boundaries again until Washing Machine, which I consider EVOL's sister album from the '90s.

Incidentally Steve Shelley hates both of those albums...

When did Shelley say that??

Thought this was a VU thread for a second.