rolling #metoo thread for sexual harassment in the music industry so no one misses out when artists we don't give a fuck about like Tim Westwood and Bassnectar get caught

that seems to have been the tone with a lot of the conductors who've been exposed, levine obviously the most horrific

Anyone watching Phoenix Rising, the Evan Rachel Wood doc about her relationship with Manson? It’s absolutely brutal.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/apr/26/dj-tim-westwood-accused-of-sexual-misconduct-by-multiple-women

horrific. easy to say in hindsight i know, but i always thought he was a wrong 'un.

it seems like he's got away with it so long because he was almost exclusively targeting young black women. I always thought he was a contemptible idiot, this circus act of a posh bishop's son trying to act like he grew up in the projects.. lol. But had no idea about all this till a few years back. The progression to this point has been very slow considering the huge amount pf complaints against him.

oof: https://pitchfork.com/news/arcade-fires-win-butler-accused-of-sexual-misconduct-by-multiple-women-frontman-responds/

All three women were devoted Arcade Fire fans between the ages of 18 and 23 at the start of their interactions with Butler, which took place during overlapping periods from 2016 to 2020, when he was between 36 and 39.

you ever not like a band because you just get that vibe from the people/a person playing the music?

so yeah, i've never bought an arcade fire album.

signed,
a judgmental fucker

ps—
sounds like he's on drugs a lot more often than i understood him to be. seems like he's been struggling for a while. hope the people he violated aren't struggling for much longer.

sickening and depressing tbh

Guilty lol at:

Butler offered to put Pitchfork in contact with different women who had consensual sexual experiences with him in the past.

very bleak and depressing, even in his own version of events he comes across horribly

you ever not like a band because you just get that vibe from the people/a person playing the music?

he had a reputation for being a bit of an asshole but come on, you don't need to do this

Horrible story; and, not to make light of it, but the article contains an example of why writers need to be careful with their sentence structure:

Stella also claims that Butler sent her photos of his genitals against her wishes, and a friend of hers recalled seeing the photos in an interview with Pitchfork.

Yep definitely reread that one a few times

that particular interview got a lot of clicks

It’s really not the writer’s fault; Pitchfork should have copy editing, but there’s no sign that they do.

Through Heller, Butler offered to put Pitchfork in contact with different women who had consensual sexual experiences with him in the past.

can’t get over this part

that particular interview got a lot of clicks

or not

Win Butler dick pics not the draw they once would have been.

not sure why you're going for jokes itt, mccain, but lets not do that

This is sad, as I said. All men aren't bad but sometimes it sure does feel that way.

my experience is that men don't abuse because they're "good" or "bad" but because not only are they not held accountable for abuse (their victims are regularly held more accountable for the abuses cisgender men commit than the abusers themselves are), the things they're taught actively encourage them to engage in abusive behavior patterns with other people. which maybe is why one will see bizarre phenomena like win butler trying to give pitchfork the phone numbers of women he's had consensual sex with, as if what was at issue was his _character_ and not his _behavior_.

Neurosis singer Scott Kelly has admitted to engaging in "emotional, financial, verbal and physical abuse" of his wife and children.

Following the admission, Kelly announced that he is “100% permanently retired from being a professional musician." https://t.co/88MbcEW2tP pic.twitter.com/HZFGTCHv90

— CONSEQUENCE (@consequence) August 28, 2022

I feel really uncomfortable with the insinuation that there is a "vibe" someone can have that suggests they're a predator because the flip side of it is the myth of "well they seemed so nice and decent so surely they can't be guilty"

yeah, a lot of “not surprised because of vibes”-type reactions out there, just as annoying as “I never listened to this musical act/always hated them”

xxxpost the problem some have called out with Kelly's recent admission is that he fessed up to doing the same thing to his family 5 years ago, promising to be better. it's alluded to here in this article: https://loudwire.com/neurosis-scott-kelly-mental-illness-struggle-dont-be-ashamed-get-help/

hoping he's serious now and this isn't a narcissistic attempt to use the incident to make himself look noble. (I don't know enough about Scott Kelly to say taht's the case, by any means).

Tbf in Butler's case he was always so polarizing that there already are a lot of genuine 'I never liked him' takes out there any time he's in the news, so of course no time like the present for those to get aired again.

the real reason I am not a big fan of the 'bad vibes' thing is it's often misapplied to people who are socially awkward but fundamentally harmless.

My objection is that it seems smug — truth is the offenders could be anyone who possesses 0 boner control with access to impressionable admirers

That’s a zero not an O— zero boner control

It’s always the people you most expect

La Lechera otm

thx Neando for context on that Scott Kelly story

I feel like I’ve been hearing rumours about him being a creep for years now. His rebuttals on this article certainly doesn’t help his case.

His “retrospective negging” moves are astounding – “I realized she had a tattoo of my band, which honestly felt a little weird,” etc.

Mr. Bundy offered to put us in contact with different women he met and didn’t murder

And all this as “communicated with Pitchfork via a New York-based crisis public relations expert” makes it more absurd. Several people filtered that response and thought it was appropriate and exonerated him somehow.

yeah i can't believe how inept that crisis PR firm is

Kate's character v behaviour take, and Moka's Bundy quip, are both otm.

The contrast between this Win Butler story and this Scott Kelly story is wild. But I’m still not clear about the specifics of the Win Butler accusations. The Pitchfork article includes a few paragraphs about power dynamics but it’s unclear how any of that related to these situations.

I’m also surprised by the number of people talking about this that are focusing on cheating rather than sending (possibly) unsolicited dick pics.

I don’t read that into any of the posts itt, and the power dynamics are so obvious that the writer of the Pitchfork piece probably didn’t think it necessary to explicate.

But I’m still not clear about the specifics of the Win Butler accusations.

there's alleged sexual assaults mentioned, on top of the unsolicited sexting and generally being predatory towards fans

The Pitchfork article includes a few paragraphs about power dynamics but it’s unclear how any of that related to these situations.

some of the victims' stories talk about how power dynamics were relevant to their situation, it's not hard to understand

La Lechera is 100% otm. I resent the implication that I liked (now very much past tense) Arcade Fire's music because I lacked the ability to discern Win Butler's personal shittiness. They didn't fool me with their music, they fooled me with power; it took concerted efforts of multiple people (his wife, other bandmates, presumably mgmt, PR, street team, etc) to keep his extra-musical behavior out of the headlines for this long. Fuck you if you think your superior taste means you can treat this like an occasion for jokes.

(Yes I'm very angry, and yes I'm even more disappointed.)

hoping he's serious now and this isn't a narcissistic attempt to use the incident to make himself look noble. (I don't know enough about Scott Kelly to say taht's the case, by any means).

not to be annoying, but, I've got a number of mutual IRL friends with him, and my instinct is that he's probably gotten a lot of "encouragement" to take accountability and also quit before he gets canceled/called out.

sorry if my personal reflection offends anyone. i'm not trying to snap on anybody or establish any sort of moral hierarchy whatsoever. that was not my intention. just had a bit of an "AHA!" moment because i've never liked the guy or his music. i certainly don't judge or begrudge anyone who did or still does. i just thought it was funny that, even at the peak of late-2000s arcade fire hysteria, i could never get into their music because of something i just wasn't able to put my finger on. just a bad vibe, i guess. i still don't know what was initially preventing me from enjoying their music, but it now seems appropriate to continue ignoring it.

anyway.☮️

personally, i think it's totally fine to "have a bad vibe" about someone, and then acknowledge it when you are proved correct. Like, I have had those "bad vibes" about so many people who turn out to be shitty. I think it's a valuable instinct to have tbh, especially when you are a type of person that is likely to be considered "prey." And maybe, because one is in the "prey" category, one tends to have honed these instincts more than someone who isn't or wasn't? I think there's a way of communicating this gracefully and sensitively that doesn't give off "blame the victim" connotations. ... though it is challenging.

and as far as this goes:

the real reason I am not a big fan of the 'bad vibes' thing is it's often misapplied to people who are socially awkward but fundamentally harmless.

I've definitely seen that happen, too, and have friends that have been the fundamentally harmless dudes ... and for me, it's about being careful re the application, and not being a jerk or bully.

a big concern about having a "bad vibe" about someone is how often, and not saying this about you Sara, but in general, is how often they are based on existing prejudices, subconscious or not

like how often is a white woman's "bad vibe" targeted towards someone Black

not to be annoying, but, I've got a number of mutual IRL friends with him, and my instinct is that he's probably gotten a lot of "encouragement" to take accountability and also quit before he gets canceled/called out.

― sarahell, Sunday, August 28, 2022 12:44 PM bookmarkflaglink

That's fair! I don't know much about the situation but it would make sense in context

thank you for mentioning that -- because I was thinking of double posting to add "not being a jerk or bully or racist" ...

but because the context(s) are arcade fire dude and neurosis dude ... who are both white ... i didn't immediately go there

personally, i think it's totally fine to "have a bad vibe" about someone, and then acknowledge it when you are proved correct. Like, I have had those "bad vibes" about so many people who turn out to be shitty. I think it's a valuable instinct to have tbh, especially when you are a type of person that is likely to be considered "prey." And maybe, because one is in the "prey" category, one tends to have honed these instincts more than someone who isn't or wasn't? I think there's a way of communicating this gracefully and sensitively that doesn't give off "blame the victim" connotations. ... though it is challenging.

― sarahell, Sunday, August 28, 2022 10:12 AM

thank you for this— and i obviously find it very otm.

again: i don't want to come off like i'm turning my nose up at anybody. if anything, i need to be called out if i'm coming across insensitive. i certainly don't mean to, but i don't always know the best way to do that.

Just remembered this from Butler: “I googled her and knew that she was 18.”

If you find yourself saying that phrase to a reporter, it should be one hell of a wake-up call