The Great ILX Gun Control Debate

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The booby traps bit was facetious, I apologize :)

xxp

― Will M., Thursday, 19 April 2007 17:11 (seventeen years ago) link

Private citizens, sure. I can see why the military and law enforcement might want to have them.

― Will M., Thursday, 19 April 2007 17:12 (seventeen years ago) link

not having to rewrite the constitution is the advantage

― moonship journey to baja, Thursday, 19 April 2007 17:13 (seventeen years ago) link

THEY CAN TAKE MY BOOBY-TRAPS WHEN THEY PRY THEM OFF MY COLD, DEAD SEVERED ARM.

xxxxpost: "DC bullyteam" is the new "Noize dudes", apparently.

― John Justen, Thursday, 19 April 2007 17:14 (seventeen years ago) link

The advantage? I think it is because they can be carried on your person much easier than other types of guns.

As i understand it, it is more difficult to be accurate with a handgun.

― Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows, Thursday, 19 April 2007 17:14 (seventeen years ago) link

i mean, FB has it right: the specific advantage is that they're small and handheld.

swords:daggers and so on

― river wolf, Thursday, 19 April 2007 17:16 (seventeen years ago) link

Let me specify then: What's the advantage to allowing people to have them? The 'hunting' thing doesn't really work. Or does it? Do people pistol-hunt? Pheaants or something? I recall hearing something like that.

― Will M., Thursday, 19 April 2007 17:18 (seventeen years ago) link

http://www.freeinfosociety.com/images/ae/reviews/tombstone3.jpg
me, tombot, river wolf, john justen

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 19 April 2007 17:28 (seventeen years ago) link

http://www.wallpaper.net.au/wallpaper/movies/The%2520Ant%2520Bully%25204%2520-%25201152x864.jpg

― ghost rider, Thursday, 19 April 2007 17:28 (seventeen years ago) link

http://barros.rusf.ru/films/posters/ant_bully_2006_poster1.jpg

― ghost rider, Thursday, 19 April 2007 17:29 (seventeen years ago) link

How have I not heard about this movie yet?????

― Curt1s Stephens, Thursday, 19 April 2007 17:37 (seventeen years ago) link

I meant more of a Tango & Cash duo!

― nabisco, Thursday, 19 April 2007 17:39 (seventeen years ago) link

Nabisco OTM throughout. There's nothing creepy about Lurker's posts on this thread at all.

― jaymc, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:21 (seventeen years ago) link

I thought about how nice it would be to pull a gun on those pathetic, piece-of-shit motherfuckers. Make them grovel on the floor, call me "sir", beg for their lives. To turn their arrogance upside-down, to make it so that -- despite the fact that there were three of them, one of me, and any one of them could've beaten the shit out of me -- they were powerless, and I could force them to confront their own folly, to be a hair's breadth away from a death caused solely by their own arrogance and cruelty, and to be spared from it only by an act of mercy that exceeded anything of which they themselves were capable.

It is for this very reason that I'm strongly in favor of gun control.

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:23 (seventeen years ago) link

I read that, Mr. Que. Thanks.

― jaymc, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:24 (seventeen years ago) link

alls i'm saying is that's the post that really creeps people out

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:25 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, I know. It doesn't creep me out, though, because I understand the point he was trying to make.

― jaymc, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:28 (seventeen years ago) link

okay, but people who are creeped out by the way he made his point also understand the point he was trying to make.

― horseshoe, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:29 (seventeen years ago) link

his point seems to be that its okay to pull a gun on someone if they are calling you a bad name. and that's what happened in Columbine and in Blacksburg.

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:30 (seventeen years ago) link

the post says nothing about rape, nothing about murder nothing about defending yourself from a mugging, and that is why people think it is creepy. also, horseshoe OTM, i understand the point he was trying to make but i think it is creepy

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:31 (seventeen years ago) link

i was also creeped out by his fixation on repeatedly referencing rape victims and hate crime victims over and over and over again as like a "hypothetical situation", just fyi. like i said elsewhere, you can have a point that is partially correct and still come off like a pornographic creep. but thx for the thoughts, jaymc.

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:32 (seventeen years ago) link

put it in yr spreadsheet.

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:32 (seventeen years ago) link

xxp WTF, that's not his point at all. His point was that he was tempted to perform a violent act and that he's glad that there's gun control or else it would have been infinitely easier to enact that fantasy. Are none of you ever scared about what you're capable of? Wasn't there some Noise Board thread recently where everyone talked about how they frequently imagined themselves jumping in front of trains and stuff?

― jaymc, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:33 (seventeen years ago) link

OK, I am genuinely surprised that people think that first post is really creepy.

I think that his rhetoric after that post was reactionary and overwrought, but are people really weirded out by that revenge fantasy?

Or maybe people have a history with him that I am unaware of?

― Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:34 (seventeen years ago) link

not having to rewrite the constitution is the advantage

Should the constitution be set in stone? Haven't values, threats, opportunities, etc. changed in the last two and a bit centuries? Shouldn't it be at least reviewed every fifty years or so to decide whether it's still worth hanging a flag on?

Sorry for being a crappy Brit about all this but "because my constitution says I can" is fuck all justification for anything in my eyes.

The right to bear arms for defence (or at least the right of Protestants to do so) was a tenet of the English Bill of Rights a hundred years earlier but I for one am glad that English Law isn't like tablets from Mount Sinai.

― onimo, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:34 (seventeen years ago) link

Mr. Que, that was most definitely not his point.

― Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:34 (seventeen years ago) link

oh I sounded like a smarmy cunt there, sorry :)

― onimo, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:35 (seventeen years ago) link

(I only skimmed the parts in the thread where he talked about rape victims, so whatever, you may be right. But by that point, John Justen had already gone all "U R A MEGA-CREEP" on him, so I can understand his need to defend himself.)

― jaymc, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:35 (seventeen years ago) link

John, it's not his point that people have had a problem with. it was his lingering articulation of the revenge fantasy--(seriously, make them call me "sir"? more than I ever needed to read, frankly)--and the way the nature of that revenge fantasy seems related to his fixation on rape and his defensiveness about race.

― horseshoe, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:35 (seventeen years ago) link

okay, we're just reading the post in a different way, interpreting it differently? there's no reason to bring the Noise Board into it, for the record i was not part of the subway train thread imagination thingamabob. alls i know is if i was having those kinds of fantasies i would seek some help very quickly.

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:37 (seventeen years ago) link

if that was the only post he made about it then fine, or if he had chosen to explain it simply, then fine, but the atrocity exhibition that by his own admission had nothing to do with his actual situation at all that he created in subsequent posts is hella fucking creepy and disturbing for some of us. i can't speak for mr. que but i think it's obvious by john's posts that the post-initial-statement rhetoric being spouted was creeping him out! i mean yes he got called out for the overly lurid post but the way he defended himself is like basically stomach-turning.

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:37 (seventeen years ago) link

lots of xposts obviously

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:37 (seventeen years ago) link

OK, I am genuinely surprised that people think that first post is really creepy.

"These dudes were making fun of my friend and man I wanted to beat the shit out of them" - not creepy.

"These dudes were making fun of my friends and I was really hoping to go all Death Wish IV on their asses and have them beg me not to kill them" - creepy as fuck.

― milo z, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:37 (seventeen years ago) link

yeah milo kind of otm but otoh if that was IT and it was just some weird "I WROTE A HIT PLAY" louis jagger-style overflourishy creative writing exercise then it really wouldn't have garnered such a response.

i'm genuinely surprised that some of you are being so disingenuous about not seeing how any of those posts are creepy at all!

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:40 (seventeen years ago) link

"These dudes were making fun of my friends and I was really hoping to go all Death Wish IV on their asses and have them beg me not to kill them" - creepy as fuck.

Which is why those movies sold so poorly, because no one can relate to them...oh, wait.

― lurker #2421, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:41 (seventeen years ago) link

newsflash: angry white males (aka The Death Wish Audience) be creepy, too. see also: Roger Adultery

― milo z, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:42 (seventeen years ago) link

http://www.degreesofme.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/conan.jpg

"What is good in life?"
"To crush your enemies, see them driven before -- oh, shit, wait, dude, I shouldn't say that, no one will like that line at all."

xpost yes, because only white males want to kill people, and there are no other movies, or forms of entertainment, depicting revenge fantasies that have appeal beyond that narrow subset. "Hothead Paisan", anyone?

― lurker #2421, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:44 (seventeen years ago) link

lurker get a fucking clue already

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:44 (seventeen years ago) link

just ONE

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:44 (seventeen years ago) link

I am not being disingenuous, Ally!

― Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:46 (seventeen years ago) link

and the way the nature of that revenge fantasy seems related to his fixation on rape and his defensiveness about race.

You're losing me here, Horseshoe. I re-read Lurker's posts, and I'm under the impression that he talked about rape victims only as an example of someone that we might consider justified for having revenge fantasies. The only issue I have with that is that, unless he's been raped himself, it's a bit presumptuous to speak on their behalf. But really, the reason he went there was because some people seemed to think that he was a weirdo for having a revenge fantasy in the first place. All he was saying was, "Revenge fantasies need not be creepy. Consider such-and-such a situation." Your post makes it sound like he's fixated on rape fantasies, which is a wild leap to make.

― jaymc, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:47 (seventeen years ago) link

http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/7344.htm

"A group of elderly Holocaust survivors came forward with accounts of a death squad they formed after World War II to take revenge on their Nazi persecutors, recounting a brazen operation in which they poisoned hundreds of SS officers."

VERY CREEPY

xpost exactly, thank you, Jaymc!

― lurker #2421, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:48 (seventeen years ago) link

hey lurker can you call me sir a few times

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:48 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't understand what the existence of revenge porn movies and posting revenge porn to a gun control thread really have to do with each other.

xpost John, I really don't think it's a wild leap. the race and rape stuff came out of nowhere and John Justen and Ally have already articulated what's so gross about using them as hypotheticals.

― horseshoe, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:49 (seventeen years ago) link

Star Wars has an appeal for me, to watch and enjoy it, but that doesn't mean I want to hang out in a pool of rotting garbage getting crushed to death while i scream at a gay robot to turn the garbage compactor off.

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:49 (seventeen years ago) link

ok, really, can we just ban anyone who draws a line between teen hooligans and Nazi camp guards? Pretty plz?

― milo z, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:50 (seventeen years ago) link

"A group of elderly Holocaust survivors came forward with accounts of a death squad they formed after World War II to take revenge on their Nazi persecutors, recounting a brazen operation in which they poisoned hundreds of SS officers."

VERY CREEPY

Not that creepy at all. Waving a gun in someone's face because they called your friend an awful name? Pretty fucking creepy.

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:50 (seventeen years ago) link

again, I don't necessarily think it's creepy to have had revenge fantasies (although I'm annoyed at the insinuation that I have to relate), it was the posting about it in lingering detail that seemed off to me.

― horseshoe, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:50 (seventeen years ago) link

well this sure is tiresome...

the Brit upthread obviously doesn't understand some fundamental differences between British and American jurisprudence - namely that Americans have a document, the Constitution, that IS set-in-stone as the rule of law (barring amendments). I understand this is not the case in the UK, but really get one fucking clue. All federal laws are derived first from the Constitution, rather than the willy-nilly accumulation of precedent that is the British legal system.

many x-posts

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:50 (seventeen years ago) link

mr que otm re star wars

― river wolf, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:51 (seventeen years ago) link

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