I don't know about that. Surely an individual may fail to meet or enforce the standards of the institution that employs them?
― rob, Monday, 14 February 2022 21:21 (two years ago) link
Rare is the copy without error.
― Ward Fowler, Monday, 14 February 2022 21:28 (two years ago) link
This is not America. This is not what America does.
― Alba, Monday, 14 February 2022 21:30 (two years ago) link
Hey, hey, LRB, how many rules did you break, Tóibín?
― Alba, Monday, 14 February 2022 21:33 (two years ago) link
are editors agents of fascism as a rule
― Ár an broc a mhic (darraghmac), Monday, 14 February 2022 22:29 (two years ago) link
I've realised I'm totally a pinefox when it comes to other things. Like, I can't stand to see something like "anti-money laundering measures" because the hyphen is only attached to one of the two words, so it reads like it means laundering operations against money. Even though normal people's brains will see "money laundering" as a unit and not make a problem of this. But I'd always rather "anti-money-laundering operations".
― Alba, Tuesday, 15 February 2022 16:14 (two years ago) link
It’s been a hot minute since I did this, but isn’t an en-dash used where you have a multi-word construction that needs to be hyphenated? Or is that super–old school?
― war mice (hardcore dilettante), Tuesday, 15 February 2022 16:58 (two years ago) link
no school older
― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 15 February 2022 17:03 (two years ago) link
Hardcore, that is what I learned as well.
― we need outrage! we need dicks!! (the table is the table), Saturday, 19 February 2022 14:10 (two years ago) link
Possibly discussed before (and I wonder if I once read this in a Guardian Style Guide) ... but shouldn't "impacted" only be used about ... teeth??
― djh, Wednesday, 2 March 2022 19:17 (two years ago) link
Like most "should/shouldn't" formulations, it depends entirely on the circumstances. If you are writing an article or news story in the Guardian, then by all means, follow their Style Guide's guidance. In casual conversation or writing, not so much.
― more difficult than I look (Aimless), Wednesday, 2 March 2022 19:22 (two years ago) link
Thanks Aimless. It's not in the context of the Guardian ... it's just one of those words that has stuck in my head as "don't use it".
― djh, Wednesday, 2 March 2022 21:28 (two years ago) link
ftr, it's not weird that you thought that: https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/yes-impact-is-a-verb
― rob, Wednesday, 2 March 2022 21:37 (two years ago) link
impact has been used as a verb for hundreds of years and it's totally fine to use it and not just of teeth
not only is it entirely normal on english for nouns to become verbs (and vice versa)*, it's also good (it's a root of english poetic effect)
*in this instance impact was a verb before it was a noun and that's also normal and good
― mark s, Wednesday, 2 March 2022 21:55 (two years ago) link
Yes for me the only should/shouldn't opinion that matters is the opinion of the person approving my invoice, approving my timesheet, or signing my paycheck.
Like almost every professional word-using person I have aesthetic opinions about usage. They don't rise to normative or moral judgments. They are matters of taste; de gustibus etc.
When I work for people who have strong views on usage, I adhere to their views. Because that is how I pay my fricking mortgage.
― squid pro quo (Ye Mad Puffin), Thursday, 3 March 2022 00:53 (two years ago) link
Okay about “impact” as a verb but what about the knotweed that is “impactful”?
― Helly Watch the R’s (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 11 April 2022 00:44 (two years ago) link
it has a decipherable meaning so it is a word. but some words cannot be admitted into polite company, such as the dictionary, or used in any form of writing, with the possible exception of emails sent by one marketer to another.
― more difficult than I look (Aimless), Monday, 11 April 2022 01:38 (two years ago) link
I don't see much problem with that adjective.
― the pinefox, Monday, 11 April 2022 08:48 (two years ago) link
https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/impactful-is-a-real-word
― reggae mike love (polyphonic), Monday, 11 April 2022 09:27 (two years ago) link
there's nothing wrong with it at all obviously
― mark s, Monday, 11 April 2022 09:29 (two years ago) link
why is this in the copy-editors and grammar fiends thread lol
― mark s, Monday, 11 April 2022 09:30 (two years ago) link
keep this nonsense to the worst thread on ilx plz
― mark s, Monday, 11 April 2022 09:31 (two years ago) link
Link plz.
― Helly Watch the R’s (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 11 April 2022 09:39 (two years ago) link
Just got a robocall from work about today’s subway shooting saying I should contact someone if I “have been impacted” so I guess you win.
― Anita Quatloos (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 12 April 2022 14:20 (two years ago) link
17th century usage says HULLO
― mark s, Tuesday, 12 April 2022 14:30 (two years ago) link
Doesn't it go back a trifle further? Couldn't find it in my KJV or Complete Shakespeare though.
― Anita Quatloos (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 12 April 2022 14:46 (two years ago) link
i mean yes, it does back to latin: impingo impingere impegi impactum so i guess the romans also say HULLO or SALVE as they wd put it
― mark s, Tuesday, 12 April 2022 14:51 (two years ago) link
Have you tried the Duolingo Latin yet?
― Anita Quatloos (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 12 April 2022 14:58 (two years ago) link
ILXegitimi non carborundum
― Anita Quatloos (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 12 April 2022 17:48 (two years ago) link
Okay if you want to accept “impactful” but don’t pretend it came from Cicero: https://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2019/04/impactful.html.
― Wile E. Kinbote (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 21 April 2022 10:49 (two years ago) link
It made its OED debut in 2018, along with “jumbotron.” https://public.oed.com/updates/new-words-list-june-2018/
― Wile E. Kinbote (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 21 April 2022 10:56 (two years ago) link
I almost used “debut” as a transitive verb but thought better of it, not wanting to stir things further.
― Wile E. Kinbote (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 21 April 2022 10:57 (two years ago) link
Which I guess would've been okay today but Oxford sez exp North American, business: https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/english/debut_2
― Wile E. Kinbote (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 21 April 2022 11:19 (two years ago) link
debut is fine as a transitive verb
also this nonsense belongs on "words and phrases (good) that annoy me (bad)"
― mark s, Thursday, 21 April 2022 11:46 (two years ago) link
Yes, I believe you have made this impactful point several times about this “nonsense” regarding people’s folk opinions as to usage, but are sure that is the right thread to banish it to? Maybe it should more properly be on Noize Board thread about Britishes vs. US(age).
― Wile E. Kinbote (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 21 April 2022 11:58 (two years ago) link
no, it is not fine as a transitive verb. If I were a copy-editor I would cross it out and replace it with "launch"
xp
― joni mitchell jarre (anagram), Thursday, 21 April 2022 12:00 (two years ago) link
i am a copy editor
whether i replaced it would of course depend on context but it's fine
― mark s, Thursday, 21 April 2022 12:16 (two years ago) link
'Debuted' as a word in English is odd because you wouldn't pronounce the last letters - or, if you like, you'd pronounce it 'Debu'd' ie: omit the te.
I don't say that this makes it invalid or that other English words don't have silent letters.
I just reflect that this fact about 'Debuted' might add to people's resistance to it if they see it as a new word. It's perhaps a bit awkward.
On reflection I don't think I would use it, but I'm also not going to complain if others use it.
― the pinefox, Thursday, 21 April 2022 12:22 (two years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwyTrWJ7Djw
― Wile E. Kinbote (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 21 April 2022 12:30 (two years ago) link
Your debutante just knows what you need etc iirc
― Wile E. Kinbote (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 21 April 2022 12:38 (two years ago) link
this is a weird exchange to read as an American
― rob, Thursday, 21 April 2022 12:40 (two years ago) link
Your debutante just knows what you need but your arsenal, well that’s a horse of a different color.
― Wile E. Kinbote (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 21 April 2022 12:42 (two years ago) link
Xp: because?
― Wile E. Kinbote (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 21 April 2022 12:43 (two years ago) link
Debut as a transitive verb is completely normal here, and I had no idea it wasn't in the UK. So the idea that "it is not fine as a transitive verb" or it's "odd" and people might struggle with guessing how to pronounce it is itself odd to me. nbd, just a little funny, like americans losing their minds in a roundabout or something
― rob, Thursday, 21 April 2022 12:46 (two years ago) link
It’s completely normal in the UK too. Funnily enough I just edited a piece containing it.
― Alba, Thursday, 21 April 2022 14:15 (two years ago) link
Maybe this thread should be restyled as TS Copyeditors vs. Grammar Fiends FITE!where "fiend" is in the sense ofhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lae8FewbnuU
― Wile E. Kinbote (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 21 April 2022 19:53 (two years ago) link
HOW DU I SHOT Capitalization Rules for Headlines
― Wile E. Is President (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 5 May 2022 14:11 (two years ago) link
(or titles obv.)
― Wile E. Is President (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 5 May 2022 14:13 (two years ago) link
Apart from the initial cap (or yes, for names etc) I would say avoid wherever possible - I feel like upper case in headlines always 'snags' the eye.
I work on a magazine for a big heritage organisation and they've just decided to stop using the Gill font in all their publications, posters etc. First instance I know of a cancelled font.
― Ward Fowler, Thursday, 5 May 2022 14:15 (two years ago) link
Capitalization is a good example of why picking 1 style guide and obeying it no matter what can be a kindness to yourself, though even there Chicago, e.g., has rules for headline-style (Brazen Disregard for Ward Fowler's Sensitive Little Eyes) and sentence-style (This is the future Ward Fowlers want)
― rob, Thursday, 5 May 2022 14:29 (two years ago) link