Mostly Apolitical Thread for Discussing/Venting our Rational/Irrational COVID-19 Fears and Experiences in 2020

https://www.filmlinc.org/daily/dana-stevens-and-imogen-sara-smith-on-the-legacy-of-buster-keaton/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7p9701sv-c

Which mentions yet another, older Keaton book.

works in this thread

Lol, sorry.

Looks like Pritzker is dropping the indoor mask mandate any day now, or maybe by March 1. (Schools keep masking, or at least the state is appealing a judge's decision to reverse the school masking mandate.) Brings back memories of the one or two times I went into a store last summer during the brief window where they did not require a mask. Ah, the good ol' days.

It certainly feels like some sea change this week, between the blue states dropping mandates and scientists on the talk shows saying we don't need masks. I'm as ready as anyone else to not be sitting at my desk in a mask 8 hours a day, but the part of me that has been battered by the last two waves is worried about ripping the band-aid off and watching us get slapped with another wave all over again.

I mean, England will have no rules at all from two week's time, no masks, no isolation after testing positive, so...

we need a week of no number bumps post unmasking for this to feel real
best case scenario it's gonna be a year before the majority of the over 30 public in nyc can make the shift without agita

the part of me that has been battered by the last two waves is worried about ripping the band-aid off and watching us get slapped with another wave all over again.

The US is averaging nearly 2,000 deaths a day at the moment, with peaks over 3,300, so can’t wait to see what counts as a wave after this version of normal

come on, he never said we were out of the current one, but cases/hospitalizations are on the decline nationally and deaths are a trailing statistic, representing where things were 2-3 weeks ago. he's saying "please don't relax restrictions too soon and find us going back the other direction real quick".

pedantry for cheap gotchas really getting old itt

Honestly it's all I expect out of sic at this point. While I've seen really good sic posts elsewhere, it seems like this thread really brings out the bad faith responses.

As a thought experiment, try reading the words of my post as if they are exactly agreeing with and echoing the sentiment of jvc's post, instead of deciding that they disagree with it.

that's one problem with acquiring a reputation

Yeah I didn't think sic was disagreeing? Maybe just making the point that this level of death is considered 'normal' is fucking absolutely, undeniably bananas? Morally reprehensible? We're all so battered that we have no sense of scale any longer?

I mean I don't know about y'all but I am losing it thinking about how normalized all this death has become. Just an abysmal place.

Many x-posts:

"Just two people who hadn't spent that much time together in many years and found they couldn't relate to each other."

I recall reading a Guardian article when Covid-19 still felt new - "A Letter From Italy", I think it was headlined - which included things like friends arranging to coincidentally be in shopping queues next to each other and so on, as the only way of seeing each other socially ... and the couples separating really stood out, even then.

x-post to Colette:

Feels like madness/denial, doesn't it? I know people who have been fairly relaxed about Covid but even they've been open to keeping away from others when symptomatic or wearing face coverings in obviously risky situations.

I mean I don't know about y'all but I am losing it thinking about how normalized all this death has become. Just an abysmal place.

― we need outrage! we need dicks!! (the table is the table), Wednesday, February 9, 2022 10:49 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

I totally feel you on this, believe it or not. And what makes me even crazier about it is the knowledge that the overwhelming majority of the death is happening among people who, for whatever reason, could have protected themselves and did not. And sometimes it just kind of stops up my brain when I try to think through the implications of that. It's even more of a disconnect for me too since I don't see it happening around me in my overwhelmingly vaccinated area, yet am regularly reminded that it is still happening.

I have a friend who just officiated a wedding in Texas. No masks, no nothing, even though a family member of one of the wedding party apparently died of covid a few days beforehand. But, like, these deaths, they're *not* normal! There *is* a way to prevent them, and people are not taking advantage of it. *That's* the abnormal part!

The really shocking thing to me is that none of it seems to be making a dent in America's supply of stupid, self-centered assholes.

I took a series of COVID-19 tests at a next door facility last year. I stopped going to this place because I didn't feel like the way they were taking proper scrapes of my nose (and this was a pop-up facility which made me nervous), but nonetheless, I went.

Previously, my insurance company actually reimbursed the entire amount charged for a same-day PCR, which kind of surprised me as most won't. But this test, a rapid antigen, was only covered at $77 of $138. I've been fighting them for months, and their response, even after I filed a complaint with the Department of Insurance, is always the same: we paid 100% of the allowed amount, but you went out of network, so they charged more than the allowed amount. I.E. "reasonable and customary charges".

I've read the CARES act multiple times and it specifically states that the carrier can't do this, that it must reimburse up to the amount of the provider's advertised price of the test if there is no negotiated rate. Additionally, the carrier's website (United) claims all tests, in or out of network, will have a $0 cost share until April 2022. This is under the assumption that you're testing for reasons of exposure or symptoms, and not like to get secured for travel. But I was testing due to exposure! and they didn't ask me this question.

So today my claim with the Department of Insurance in Illinois was closed with them once again repeating this to me, and denying they ever paid a previous claim. I found the claim in 5 minutes, and reattached the CARES act section that goes over out of network charges, as well as their own website screenshots.

this much effort spanning over a month and a half to get them to pay 61 fucking dollars. what a racket.

― he's very big in the region of my butthole (Neanderthal), Thursday, February 3, 2022 2:28 PM bookmarkflaglink

btw I won after two appeals to the Illinois Division of Insurance

kudos

well done

charging $138 for a rapid test is some mark twain shit

I stopped going to that place as they turned up in one of those "beware of COVID scams" articles. they were definitely using legit tests, but I definitely felt less comfortable when two COVID-positive friends initially tested negative there (though that could just as easily be "too early in infection to show up on rapid test" too, to be fair).

btw having to submit reimbursement forms for every test you buy is a pain. FedExOffice gonna see a lot of me :/

We wound up getting billed $400-some-odd for four pcr tests because the center billed it as “telemedicine” (since you had to do like a two minute intake call before the test). And they were for exposure. And then we couldn’t get our insurance to straighten it out because we have two separate plans (hospital and medical) and the billing dept billed the wrong one and then it was too late to fix. US healthcare never stops clusterfucking us all.

at walgreens if you say you don’t have insurance you get the pcr tests for free, or at least that’s how it was last summer

appreciate that’s not exactly helpful rn man alive

that kind of highlights the stupidity of it, in that it's easier to get the test without complications if you have no insurance than if you do. because different mechanisms of being reimbursed

the US has always been known for its absolutely fucking sterling incentives when it comes to how healthcare gets paid for

For those self-testing, an anecdotal PSA: I was doing one of my regular vaccine clinic volunteer shifts, and a nurse I was working with (an old acquaintance) confirmed (again, at least anecdotally) that the home tests just don't seem to be consistently picking up omicron. That is, she said there is a brief window of a couple of days that they seem to be more accurate, but if you test outside of that window the results are pretty unreliable. Just a heads up. A good rule of thumb is that if you think you have it, just assume you have it.

This most recent clinic, by the way, had only 11 advance sign ups, and maybe two walks in, but fwiw three of the recipients were in for their very first vaccine shot. A 12-year old girl, a guy in his early '40s, and a guy who was probably in his early '60s (who had covid over Christmas, like so many). There was no easy or ethical way to ask, but I really wanted to know what changed their minds.

Related, after a couple of pretty slow vaccine/booster clinics, the local health department is going to pivot slightly to reliable PCR test clinics, which they probably really should have had going all along.

That's happened here in the last two weeks. No more rapid tests.

Hmm.

Three of the four people in my household just had an irksome stomach bug. My son was throwing up a bit over the weekend but recovered fully within 24 hours. We assumed it was probably a garden-variety virus, but gave him a rapid home test anyway, which was negative.

A day later my wife and I got the same bug. Just in case my son's negative test was a false negative, we home-tested as well, all negative. I thought it unlikely that there would be three false negatives. In any case we all got over it within a day and everybody feels fine. There were no respiratory symptoms, just the gastrointestinal yuck.

I suppose it's possible that those were all probably false negatives. And that all three of us had 24-hour COVID. I'm skeptical, though.

That actually sounds to me like a textbook case of (yes) a stomach illness. Barfing, 24-hours of GI stuff, fast spread. It happens! Plus, unless you all got it the same place, I think it takes at least couple of days from exposure to covid. Though who knows, right?

Is throwing up a common or even uncommon covid symptom? The only people I know that barfed with covid were among that first NYC wave in March 2020. I have a friend who got pretty nauseous from the vaccines and boosters, but I don't think she ever yakked.

Puffin, I had that too! I got it from my sister at Xmas. I just assumed it was a stomach bug. Instill think it is, since it doesn’t track with what is known about COVID. After 24 hours of shitting I was totally fine.

nausea was a symptom of the original strain. i threw up, out of the blue, about a day after my fever broke. not sure about the subsequent variants.

My sister had nausea two of the three times she had covid (og strain & Alpha iirc).

Three times! Poor thing.

More anecdata on the home tests: A friend who is currently COVID-positive (for the second time) was positive she had it because of symptoms, but home test was negative. While she was waiting for PCR results she did another home test, this time swabbing her throat rather than her nose, and the home test was immediately, strongly, pinkly positive. (As was the PCR test when it arrived.) I remember reading that omicron seemed to be concentrating more in the throat than nose, but I haven't seen any guidance about home-test swabbing for it.

I think I mentioned my friend that tested positive three times in a row with a home kit, but negative two times with a PCR test, which is ... weird. Then again, there was so much pop-up PCR clinic fuckery that in those instances maybe the home tests *were* more reliable.

I do know that when my younger daughter tested positive, there was no doubt. That line went dark almost immediately.

Three times! Poor thing.

regarding "rapid tests" - from the rapid test guru Michael Mina (epidemiologist), here's the low-down on PCR vs rapid antigen:

Rapid tests are later to pick up infection than PCR because it's less sensitive and requires a higher viral load to pop 'positive', but it definitely does pick it up when you're at your most contagious. These tests are good to determine when you are likely no longer infectious.

PCR tests are much better at determining initial infection - however, because they are more sensitive and pick up trace elements of viral RNA, they are not good at determining when you're no longer contagious, as they pick up dead virus that isn't viable. You can test positive on a PCR test for a few months after you've cleared the virus, but that doesn't mean you're contagious.

so PCR is good to confirm that, yes, you ARE infected, then rapid tests will usually start picking up the virus days later than the PCR, and will continue to show you are infected until your viral load drops and you're no longer contagious. (me, personally, I will require two such negative tests separated by 24 hours before I feel safe). Definitely should NOT treat a single negative RAT as a definitive negative if you have symptoms, should isolate and test again, perhaps get a PCR test if you can get an appointment. If you're not sure, agree with above, assume you have it.

Likewise, if you can't acquire/take RATs to confirm you've cleared the virus, I'd just isolate for 10 days (in the NBA study, something like 31% of players were still contagious after 5 days of symptoms, only like 5% after 10 days).

I'm in that boat right now, a PCR test picked up my positive, but at home antigens haven't yet. I'm not thrilled by health centers abandoning antigen tests as they have been proven to pick up Omicron, just not right away, and people who were already infected that are trying to be responsible might go to get a PCR test on like Day 14 and think "oh shit, I"m still infectious" when they're not.

More on that:

Are Ag tests Neg when PCR is Pos?

You may be misunderstanding relationship between rapid Ag tests & PCR @UtahDepOfHealth

As cases fall, we should EXPECT Ag to be POS <50% vs PCR

But its bc PCR stays pos AFTER ppl are contagious… and as cases fall, it is exaggerated

1/ https://t.co/Lf0CO6hAO2

— Michael Mina (@michaelmina_lab) February 10, 2022

Laboratory based PCR or Rapid tests

Which is most appropriate for pandemic response?

For public health it’s clear - #RapidTests are more effective

Lab PCR is great for a doctor. But public health is not same as medicine

By @RickABright @ZekeEmanuel https://t.co/u1cETLh0Cu

— Michael Mina (@michaelmina_lab) January 28, 2022

For those upthread: nausea, vomiting, and diarrrhea may not be the main COVID symptoms to watch out for rn. But they're still on every questionnaire we have to fill out.

Every day, for both kids, we have to fill out a screening questionnaire attesting that they do not have any of these symptoms. Or else they cannot get on a school bus or enter a school. Ditto to participate in sports or theater or music or go to the dentist.

Hence my hesitation on the "if you think you might have it, act like ypu do" guidance.

D&V would be a definite reason not to go to school here anyway! And not return until 48 hours after.

and a nurse I was working with (an old acquaintance) confirmed (again, at least anecdotally) that the home tests just don't seem to be consistently picking up omicron.

just as a reminder about anecdotes, in summer 2020 i was at one of those really awkward, weird, early pandemic period outside hangouts, standing 10 feet away in a backyard and talking to an old friend. not one of my smarter friends, i gotta say, haha. but an old friend. she was a nurse. she told everyone at the gathering that men were much more susceptible to covid than women. why? because she said in her hospital it was "about 10 to 1, men to women", and the men were getting it worse than the women. the gathering became even more uncomfortable. she was our friend, a nurse, someone with real life training and experience. and yet, it was so dumb.

this is how almost everyone is

but since the cdc and fda are now useless, we are left to just walk around the neighborhood and guess

Putting aside our disagreements, can we at least agree that it makes no sense that New York State lifted all statewide mask requirements EXCEPT in schools?

lol c'mon man

not really. computer models of the spread of contagions through social interactions consistently show that schoolkids are the most active vectors around, so the NY decision does make some scientific sense.

Putting aside the last time I farted on you....FAAAAAART