Continuing with Spotify?

hi people who can’t quit spotify, remember when there was no streaming and you still loved and enjoyed music? all of maybe 5 years ago?

― assert (matttkkkk), Monday, 7 February 2022 14:43 (ten minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

spotify has been a key and irreplaceable component of my listening since 2009, but go off

Maybe this is me being too hand-wavey, but all of these problems about switching and etc could be easily solved...by embracing tradition and paying for digital or physical copies of music.

A complete list of all the music I bought in 2021:

PHYSICAL
Ahmed Abdul-Malik, Four Classic Albums 2CD
Apartment House, John Cage Number Pieces 4CD
Bad Brains, Bad Brains CD
Harry Bertoia, Complete Sonambient Collection 11CD
David Bowie, Stage (2017 remaster) 2CD
David Bowie, Welcome to the Blackout (Live London ’78) 2CD
Lester Bowie, All the Numbers 2CD
Weedie Braimah, The Hands of Time CD
Jaimie Branch, Fly Or Die Live 2CD
Anthony Braxton, Freedom Years 2CD
James Brown, Live at Home With His Bad Self CD
Cannibal Corpse, Red Before Black CD
Cannibal Corpse, A Skeletal Domain CD
Cannibal Corpse, Violence Unimagined CD
John Coltrane, Blue World CD
John Coltrane, A Love Supreme: Live in Seattle CD
Creative Construction Company, Vols. 1 & 2 CD
Bill Dixon, Envoi CD
Dr. John, Atco Albums Collection 7CD
Earthless, Rhythms From a Cosmic Sky CD
Earthless, Sonic Prayer CD
Earthless, From the Ages CD
Earthless, Night Parade of One Hundred Demons CD
Fire, Defeat CD
Floating Points, Pharoah Sanders & The London Symphony Orchestra, Promises CD
Merle Haggard: Down Every Road 1962-1994 4CD
PJ Harvey, Stories From the City, Stories From the Sea: Demos CD
PJ Harvey, Uh Huh Her: Demos CD
PJ Harvey, Is This Desire?: Demos CD
Hampton Hawes, Complete Albums Collection 1955-1961 4CD
Julius Hemphill, Big Band CD
Irreversible Entanglements, Open the Gates CD
Khanate, Khanate 2CD
Khanate, Things Viral 2CD
Khanate, Capture & Release 2CD
Khanate, Clean Hands Go Foul CD
Hubert Laws, Morning Star/Carnegie Hall/The Chicago Theme 2CD
Hubert Laws, In the Beginning/In Concert – Carnegie Hall 2CD
Damon Locks Black Monument Ensemble, Now CD
Damon Locks Black Monument Ensemble, Where Future Unfolds CD
Loop, Heavens End 2CD
Loop, Fade Out 2CD
Loop, A Gilded Eternity 2CD
Michael Mantler, The Jazz Composers Orchestra CD
Mastodon, Hushed & Grim 2CD
Rob Mazurek Exploding Star Orchestra, Dimensional Stardust CD
Charles Mingus, Mingus at Carnegie Hall: Deluxe Edition 2CD
Roscoe Mitchell, Congliptious CD
Roscoe Mitchell, Old/Quartet Sessions 2CD
Roscoe Mitchell, Before There Was Sound CD
Hedvig Mollestad Trio, Ding Dong. You’re Dead. CD
Lee Morgan, The Complete Live at the Lighthouse 8CD
Mudhoney, Every Good Boy Deserves Fudge 30th Anniversary Deluxe Edition 2CD
Ohio Players, Fire/Skin Tight 2CD
Ohio Players, Honey/Contradiction 2CD
Perturbator, Lustful Sacraments CD
Radiohead, Kid A Mnesia 3CD
Roots Magic, Hoodoo Blues CD
Roots Magic, Last Kind Words CD
Roots Magic, Take Root Among the Stars CD
Seefeel, Rupt + Flex 1994-1996 4CD
The Skatalites, Best of the Skatalites 2CD
Sons of Kemet, Black to the Future CD
Steppenwolf, Magic Carpet Ride: The ABC/Dunhill Years 1967-1971 8CD
Sunn O))), Metta, Benevolence CD
Booker T. & the MGs, Stax Singles Vol. 1 CD
Booker T. & the MGs, Stax Singles Vol. 2 CD
Cecil Taylor, Air Above Mountains CD
Cecil Taylor, Fly!Fly!Fly!Fly!Fly! CD
Cecil Taylor, Music From Two Continents CD
Cecil Taylor Quintet, Lifting the Bandstand CD
Cecil Taylor Ensemble, Göttingen 2CD
Cecil Taylor/Bill Dixon/Tony Oxley, Cecil Taylor/Bill Dixon/Tony Oxley CD
Anna Thorvaldsdottir, Enigma CD
Cedar Walton, Eastern Rebellion 1-4 4CD

DIGITAL
Abominable Putridity, Parasitic Metamorphosis Manifestation
Alaridos, Horca
ASC, An Increase in Entropy
Asphyxiate, Altar of Decomposed
Automaton, Dub Terror Exhaust
Automaton, Jihad
Albert Ayler Quintet, Berlin, Paris, Lörrach & Stockholm Revisited
BCUC, Our Truth
BCUC, Emakhosini
BCUC, The Healing
Beastmaker, Body and Soul
Biomorphic Engulfment, Incubation in the Parallel Dimension
Black Flower, Ghost Radio
BLK OPS, The Heroic Dose
Peter Brötzmann, Never Too Late But Always Too Early
Peter Brötzmann/Maleem Mahmoud Gania/Hamid Drake, The Wels Concert
Big Bad Brötzmann Trio, Biturbo!, Cap’n
Big Bad Brötzmann Trio/John Edwards & John Eckhardt, Hot Ass/Beauty Legs
Big Bad Brötzmann Quintet, Bambule!
Big Bad Brötzmann Quintet, Karacho!
The Bug, Fire
Cadaveric Fumes, Dimensions Obscure
Can, Live In Brighton 1975
Carbon Based Lifeforms, Stochastic
Ian Carr Double Quintet, Solar Session
George Coleman, Amsterdam After Dark
Isaiah Collier & The Chosen Few, Cosmic Transitions
Diskord, Degenerations
Dispersed, Where Silence Reigns
Distant, Dusk of Anguish
Distant, Aeons of Oblivion
D-Town Brass, Ur
D-Town Brass, Demiurge
Ekulu, Unscrew My Head
Ena, Divided: Mind
Ena, Divided: Body
Ena, Divided
Ena, Divided 9 & 10
Ena, Binaural
Ena, Binaural (Part 2)
Flesh Hoarder, Relic of Putrescent Filth
Fruko y sus Tesos, Tesura
Fruko y sus Tesos, A la Memoria del Muerto
G36, Floor Weapons Vol. 1
Galvanizer, Prying Sight of Imperception
Galvanizer, Sanguine Vigil
The Gathering, Leimert Park
Lafayette Gilchrist, Towards the Shining Path
Lafayette Gilchrist, New Urban World Blues
Lafayette Gilchrist, The GoGo Suite: Live at the Windup Space
Lafayette Gilchrist, Deep Dancing Suite
Green River, Come On Down
Green River, Dry as a Bone: Deluxe Edition
Green River, Rehab Doll: Deluxe Edition
Muriel Grossmann, Union
Innov Gnawa, Innov Gnawa
Innov Gnawa, Lila
Innov Gnawa, Aicha
Intestinal Pestilence, Rotten Cadaver Forsaken
Nicole Johänntgen, Henry III
Kurushimi, Return 2: The Grove
Bill Laswell, Sacred System Dub Chamber 1 – Book of Entrance
Bill Laswell, Sacred System Dub Chamber 2 – Black Channel
Bill Laswell, Sacred System Dub Chamber 3 – The Exegesis
Bill Laswell, Sacred System Dub Chamber 4 – Version 2 Version
Bill Laswell, Sacred System Dub Chamber 5 – Book of Exit
Madam Data, The Gospel of the Devourer
Madam Data, For Agnes Martin – Six Architectures in Light and Water
Kevin Richard Martin, Red Light
Kevin Richard Martin, White Light
Kevin Richard Martin, Melting Point
Koichi Matsukaze Trio Featuring Ryojiro Furusawa, At the Room 427
Charles McPherson, Charles McPherson
Charles McPherson, Siku Ya Bibi
Meshum, Enigmatic Existential Essence
Metharoma, Pipe Dreams (Through the Alley)
Kohsuke Mine, First
Jason Moran, The Sound Will Tell You
Jason Moran/Milford Graves, Graves/Moran Live at Big Ears
Nazamba, Vex
Other Dimensions in Music, Other Dimensions in Music
Other Dimensions in Music, Live at the Sunset
Other Dimensions in Music, Now!
Other Dimensions in Music, Time is of the Essence is Beyond Time
Other Dimensions in Music, Kaiso Stories
William Parker/In Order To Survive, The Peach Orchard
John Patton, Soul Connection
Pyrexia, Gravitas Maximus
Relapso, Fierce
Relapso, Hinin
Replicant, Malignant Reality
Replicant, Worthless Desires
Replicant, Negative Life
Replicant, Hypochondria of the Machine
Replicant, Welcome to New Jersey
Replicant, Unbeing
Michi Sarmiento, Aqui Los Bravos! The Best Of Michi Sarmiento y su Combo Bravo 1966-67
Scorn, The Only Place
Ayanda Sikade, Movements
Nala Sinephro, Live at Real World Studios
Slant, 1
Slant, Vain Attempt EP
Nate Smith, Kinfolk: Postcards From Everywhere
Spirits Rejoice, African Spaces
Luke Stewart & Jarvis Earnshaw Quartet, Luke Stewart & Jarvis Earnshaw Quartet
Sunn O))), НЕЖИТЬ: живьём в России
Tong Tong, Tong Tong Greatest Hits
Trouble, The Skull
Trouble, Psalm 9
Trouble, Trouble
Trouble, Manic Frustration
Herbie Tsoaeli, At This Point in Time: Voices in Volumes
Lenny White, Big City
Lenny White, Venusian Summer
Wildflower, Better Times
Various Artists, Axaminer Sampler Vol. 5
Various Artists, Axaminer Sampler Vol. 6
Various Artists, Axaminer Sampler Vol. 7
Various Artists, Axaminer Sampler Vol. 8
Various Artists, Bangs & Works Vol.1 (A Chicago Footwork Compilation)
Various Artists, Bangs & Works Vol.1 (The Best of Chicago Footwork)
Various Artists, Cartagena! Curro Fuentes & The Big Band Cumbia and Descarga Sound Of Colombia 1962-72
Various Artists, Colombia! the Golden Age of Discos Fuentes. the Powerhouse of Colombian Music 1960-76
Various Artists, Perihelion 2209
Various Artists, Total 21
Various Artists, Vision One: Vision Festival 1997 Compiled

i buy 25-30 albums a year on bandcamp btw, but expecting me to buy every album i hear is obviously ridiculous, as is expecting me to listen to less music

can a mod get that unperson post pls

no, it's definitely our fault that spotify gave $100 million to a covid denying racist idiot.

Lol, ILX, the place where even Spotify can be turned into a “I was into it before it was cool” assertion.

I’m going to leave this thread now but from my perspective any argument for remaining with Spotify is extremely weak and self-serving and if you really rely on the convenience of playlists that heavily to hear music maybe it’s time for your brain to expand into other means of discovery anyway.

Thoughts about buying physical media, or cds at least, in 2022.

cd players are still less portable than ipods (lol) and, now, smartphones. But smartphones are limited in how much music you can store, and streaming eliminates that quandary.

Also, have you shopped for a car manufactured in the last 6-8 years? They don't build them with cd players anymore. So it's back to the phone problem above.

Streaming is not bad technology. It's GREAT technology. It's just run by jerkoffs.

it isn't an 'i was into it before it was cool' assertion, it is an 'i do not know what i would do without it' assertion

spotify has been key to helping me find tons of things to buy on bandcamp over the past year. I wouldn't have been able to find them directly on bandcamp, and in fact, even when I know exactly what I want to buy, it is still difficult to find a large portion of the items I want on bandcamp without doing a lot of creative searching

hi people who can’t quit spotify, remember when there was no streaming and you still loved and enjoyed music? all of maybe 5 years ago?

oh yeah, does rapidshare still work?

Arcade Fire guy does a good job a tying together Rogan frustrations with general Spotify frustrations

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/02/neil-young-spotify-joe-rogan-musicians/621503/?utm_source=feed

Lost me at "It’s certainly how I listen to music"

oh yeah, does rapidshare still work?

Before streaming I was just doing my music exploration by downloading a lot of music through file sharing networks, ever since the days of Napster in the late 90s, so close to 25 years ago now. Streaming has just made all of this more convenient. Never in my adult life did I buy more than 5% of the albums that I listened to (that 5% still adds up to a lot though). There's no going back really.

not a big fan of some of the sanctimony about this, because it continues to vilify the consumer at the expense of the company ("lol of COURSE *they're* terrible - they're a horrible start up! what's YOUR excuse!").

as I mentioned upthread, before the mass exodus started, Rogan had already done many of these things, and many of the people who are loudly (not necessarily ITT mind you) making the move and scolding those that won't are people who were well aware of how horrible Rogan was and ranting about him daily. these weren't people who were aloof until the Neil Young incident opened their eyes, these were people who already knew but didn't take action until after Neil Young. Which, fine....I'm not judging you for waiting, but the finger-pointing is really fucking lame.

like I fully support everybody ITT or outside this thread who is deciding to leave Spotify. I support boycotts of all kinds, and participate in them (ie Chick-Fil-A, who I haven't eaten at in like a decade). but if we're going to do "capitalist purity olympics", we can start another thread for that and decide who is the least problematic spender of all of us (I'll save you the trouble - it's not me).

and in that thread we can examine your discography too to make sure the politics of all musicians closely align with what is acceptable.

oh shit the triple reverse sanctimony dunk

but if we're going to do "capitalist purity olympics", we can start another thread for that and decide who is the least problematic spender of all of us (I'll save you the trouble - it's not me).

I think an "ethical consumption: c/d?" thread could maybe have been interesting at one point but idk

Is it even clear at this point that Spotify dropping Rogan would actually reduce his reach? This article from last year makes it seem like it could have the opposite effect: https://www.theverge.com/22632213/joe-rogan-experience-spotify-exclusive-audience-reach

The fear of getting kicked off/losing money probably also makes him self-censor.

as noted elsewhere I don’t give a shit about Rogan, the fundamental working model of Spotify is to pay nothing for content and charge for listening, and deviate from that just enough to convince people they are getting great value, which works out to no income and free content for artists convinced they need it for exposure. I’m also told by the press, but haven’t properly looked for the evidence, that streaming is the most wasteful way to consume music. If they can platform some covertly racist moron with a large reach for whatever million to drive revenue, that’s entirely compatible with their demonstrated ethics, and Ek says so in his memo. Convenience may have brought you to the service in all innocence, but now you know, staying is a choice.

Although the amount of plastics consumed by the industry dropped to 8 million kilograms in 2016 from a high of 61 million kilograms at the CD’s peak in 2000, when the study translated the production of plastics and the generation of electricity into greenhouse gas equivalents (GHGs), streaming generates far more. While GHGs peaked at 157 million in 2000 under the physical era, the generation of GHGs by storing and streaming digital files is estimated to be between 200 million kilograms and over 350 million kilograms in the USA alone.

Thank you for that, what’s the source?
(and please excuse my streaming runon sentences in the previous)

https://www.factmag.com/2019/04/09/streaming-music-emissions-study/

"When I voted for the Face Eating Tigers party, I didn't think they would eat my face."

We're not doing capitalist purity Olympics, tho— y'all are just angry that you're being called out for a weak and indefensible stance about Spotify because of your precious fucking playlists.

For me it's not the playlists as much as that my music budget won't allow for me to buy every Aleksi Perälä album. But I have to listen to them constantly.

i already cancelled my Spotify, so I don't have a dog in the fight. I'm having to do major cost cutting because I have an excess spending issue and while that was ok when I lived alone, I have to loan mom money a ton now since she can't work so I gotta cut the number of subs, like ums said above. but as I've said above, I buy all of my music and have always done so. have probably spent over $15,000 - $20,000 on music in the last decade alone. and merch, and concert tix etc....45%-50% of my spending is probably music and if I stopped buying it, I'd probably have a well funded 401(k). but fuck that shit.

the only reason I ever felt ethically comfortable using Spotify in the first place is that I was only using it to listen to material I already owned in physical format but couldn't locate the physical release (because I'm horribly disorganized), so if anything the band was getting paid multiple times (albeit, very little) on top of what I already paid them to own their music. prior to that, I never used Rhapsody, and was buying physical media exclusively.

I buy everything digitally simply because a) my last two houses have little to no living space and cds/vinyl take up a huge chunk of space and b) I'm horribly disorganized and more material is more clutter. also because I had two stereo systems eat it in the span of two years and was tired of rebuying them. and also, some of what I like is difficult to find on physical media but has digital versions available for purchase. or bands release digital only or have delayed physical releases.

so my opinion's not colored by me feeling targeted. i have precisely one playlist, which has 12 songs on it, and could be recreated on any other platform.

*like ums said above, they add up

post the 12 songs

otm

Relevant thread Stop Thinking of Yourself as a Good Person: The Ethics and Economics of Music Streaming

> The fear of getting kicked off/losing money probably also makes him self-censor

Pretty sure Rogan would make more money getting kicked off and becoming an alt-right cancel culture warrior. Hard to imagine Spotify or another platform will renew his show for more money. He's made his 100 mil, but he could still have fun as a Fox host for a few years or dip into the "i was canceled" book and speech tour circuit.

> the generation of GHGs by storing and streaming digital files is estimated to be between 200 million kilograms and over 350 million kilograms in the USA alone.

Dunno, those numbers are pretty hard to believe and the link provided seemed to source an art project not a research paper. Note that traditional music players are mechanical, using far more energy per play than solid state devices.

https://qz.com/1267709/every-google-search-results-in-co2-emissions-this-real-time-dataviz-shows-how-much/

Compare above, .2 grams CO2 equivalent per search query, vs. 8.91 kg CO2 per gallon of gas... seems like one trip to the record store by car would be thousands and thousands of streams...

Neanderthal, I wasn't trying to attack you, fwiw, and sorry if it came out that way. I just tend to think that in many cases, the purity Olympics stuff first happens because someone is on the defensive about their choices.

I didn't take it that way, don't worry. I'm the one that launched the initial salvo with my comments anyway :)

the 12 songs are

Steve Winwood - While You See a Chance
Crowded House - Don't Dream It's Over
Duran Duran - Ordinary World
Donna Summer - This Time I Know It's For Real
John Parr - St Elmo's Fire
Patti Smith - Because the Night
Hall & Oates - Kiss On My List
Billy Joel - This is the Time
Elton John - Healing Hands
Billy Ocean - Carribean Queen
Mariah Carey - Love Takes Time
Bruce Hornsby - Every Little Kiss
Simply Red - Holding Back the Years

it is formless and without rhyme or reason, i stand before you naked

Hey now, hey now

weirdly, this playlist started as a playlist of songs that I used to help me get into character as GW in Del Shores's Sordid Lives back in 2014, although it's a bit of a Ship of Theseus type thing as the title of the playlist changed and there are no original songs left from the original playlist (as it was uhhh quite different genre wise then).

Are folks really that attached to their playlists? We've been building a hiphop playlist for the past year or so and it's up to over 9 hours by this point. If that just suddenly went away, Andy would certainly be able to remember my favorites and build a similar one fairly easily elsewhere. Of all the reasons to give up Spotify, that seems like an odd one — feels like the same energy as the teacher who gets mad that someone erased their chalkboard, but also can't remember what was erased.

Also Neanderthal otm. No judgment ever from us. Part of our reliance on Spotify right now stems from the fact that the record collection is in storage. It's a frustrating flurry of conflicting thoughts.

the only real playlist of actual significance that I curated was for a friend, one who likes hip hop but wanted me to pick out personal favorites, not just songs that made generic "greatest hip hop tracks of the 90s" lists.

spent hours making it and the friend never used it so fuck her and fuck Spotify!

(jk she's fine just want my playlist recognized as pure gold that it is)

I'm a little surprised no one has mentioned allegiance to Spotify's curated playlists (like Rap Cavier, or whatever). Even though every service has its own variations, I thought some folks were loyal to those.

(e.g., YT Music has a playlist called Femme Fresh – terrible name, I know – that's all recent female r&b, and I definitely like that one)

There was a time when I really enjoyed Discover Weekly, but I barely listen to it anymore. The curated ones stink like payola. I wish they (or another service) leaned more into promotion of user-created playlists.

I don't listen to a lot of curated lists, but I use the radio feature a lot

just want my playlist recognized as pure gold that it is

― he's very big in the region of my butthole (Neanderthal), Monday, February 7, 2022 1:15 PM

The struggle is real, friend.😄

The only playlist I really wanted to keep was my "liked" tracks playlist which is several thousand tracks that I liked over the years. It's not really that huge of a deal but I wanted it enough that it was worth the 4.50$ it cost to transfer it over to Tidal.

Being manipulated to pay for something you created yourself is a very familiar feeling for academics like me …

I don't really have a p.o.v. on Neil Young calling for Spotify workers to resign & everyone else to withdraw their $ from certain banks, but I think it's funny that Pitchfork decided to straight-up call him a hypocrite in their reporting on it:

Despite his criticism of Spotify and big banks, Young has continued to point his fans to Amazon, which has earned heavy criticism for its inhumane working conditions and fervent union-busting.

Damn, that's cold, Pitchfork!

Are folks really that attached to their playlists? We've been building a hiphop playlist for the past year or so and it's up to over 9 hours by this point. If that just suddenly went away, Andy would certainly be able to remember my favorites and build a similar one fairly easily elsewhere. Of all the reasons to give up Spotify, that seems like an odd one — feels like the same energy as the teacher who gets mad that someone erased their chalkboard, but also can't remember what was erased.

There are some playlists that I have spent months working on (compiling and sequencing) and would feel crushed if Spotify vanished without warning. But if it announced it would shutting down in a week, I would just export the track listings as text files and rebuild them elsewhere. (I actually have some of them in a Google doc already, because I'm paranoid that a track might disappear without being grayed out and I'll forget it was ever there to begin with.)

does rogan still run ads on his show?

I went with Tidal yesterday. I like the interface and got an offer for 3 months for a dollar before the full price kicks in. It'll cost me $4.50 (one time) to convert playlists, which is fine since I'll save almost $20 with that $1 deal. I did discover that early Camper Van Beethoven is missing on Tidal but available on Spotify and Apple Music, which is odd.