Continuing with Spotify?

Does that Eve6 person mean "$0.003" or are they seriously getting some 1/100 of the widely cited average?

[citation needed] but they almost certainly mean $0.003.

here's steve albini with the old but true chestnut that the major labels are as complicit as spotify, life isn't some bad for (some) bands on (some) independent labels:

1/ There's an important thread of continuity over time about the exploitation of bands by record labels that deserves a closer look, re the current Spotify debate. https://t.co/jLfPLpjKj8

— steve albini (@electricalWSOP) January 31, 2022

If my label was getting 30 USD for a million streams on the music I wrote, I wouldn't even bother opening Twitter to complain, I think it's 3000 USD.

This is also the crux of Four Tet’s legal case against Domino - treating streams as sales, for which he gets 18%, and not licensing, for which he’d get 50%.

honestly if you seriously think filesharing leaves artists, music and community worse off than spotify you need to give your head a wobble
otm

but i believe the reality is that the music is actually our experience of listening to it, which is undeniably different be it via a streaming media library ux or the car xm station or our own cd collection or w/e.

This mirrors my experience

I can’t believe Albini is still checking under his bed at night for the wicked major labels. Talk about your old men yelling at clouds. Like it or not, major labels had been for decades providing new artists with the ability to build careers and make living, at least, even if the terms were often predatory and fucked up. They’re also the reason it was possible in the 90s for suburban Nirvana fans to find Melvins, Dinosaur Jr, Jesus Lizard and Mudhoney albums at the mall. Most of the so-called legacy acts who are still selling records and concert tickets today are doing so largely due to the actions of these evil gatekeepers

i’m loving more and more of this scheme the more i hear abt it mr ponzi!

To be clear, I'm not saying the major label system was great, or even ethical. I'm just saying give me A&R bottom liners who at least knew something about music over craven tech bros any day

I remember iirc David Lowery writing a long piece on how badly Spotify screws his bands. And that was years ago. And wasn't there something about how even Pharrell was barely paid for a billion streams of his "Happy" song?

My kids have pushed back on the suggestion we switch from Spotify to something else, for some of the same reasons you all have discussed upthread, and tbh I've had a hard time convincing them that anything else is better, practically or ethically.

Personally, I'd be fine if Spotify was put out to pasture. Ek, like Zuckerberg, is so high on his own supply that he's confused convenience with necessity. Sure, Spotify makes streaming easy, but of course they're not the only ones, and I don't think most would miss Spotify specifically if it were supplanted. Just as Facebook (the platform) doesn't really provide some unique experience, either. A lot of the other tech companies, like Amazon or Google, actually provide services that people need (shopping or server hosting or search engines and email, production suites, storage and so on). Spotify and Facebook, companies like that, have done a bit of cynical black magic to convince people (like my kids) that they need their services, too, but I think it's all a hustle. Spotify is itself a disposable product built on the backs of other people's labor that devalues its own product by making it seem as disposable as Spotify itself.

honestly if you seriously think filesharing leaves artists, music and community worse off than spotify you need to give your head a wobble

I'm going to push back on this a little bit. While I don't think it leaves things "worse off", I'd be really curious to see how folks think filesharing in lieu of our current streaming model leaves artists, music and community better off. I mean, I know the danger of Spotify's $9.99 model sets an unrealistic bar that screws every artist. But I'm not sure how replacing that with a zero revenue generating option helps in the days of little touring and crumbling physical media pressing/distribution issues.

but did you give your head a wobble before posting that?

I did, still didn't shake loose a compelling reason why filesharing is better.

The quick answer is that file sharing is at this point a niche concern mostly engaged in by hardcore music nerds who're likely to be spending plenty of cash on music anyway.

Whether it would be less damaging in a world where everyone currently on Spotify was file sharing instead is a different question.

India.Arie out

In an Instagram statement, @IndiaArie says that she's pulling her music from Spotify because of Joe Rogan's "language around race" https://t.co/xcXF4fOZu6 pic.twitter.com/cRaZcEavQr

— Stereogum (@stereogum) February 1, 2022

migs and maelin with some good posts itt

Just as Facebook (the platform) doesn't really provide some unique experience, either. A lot of the other tech companies, like Amazon or Google, actually provide services that people need (shopping or server hosting or search engines and email, production suites, storage and so on). Spotify and Facebook, companies like that, have done a bit of cynical black magic to convince people (like my kids) that they need their services, too, but I think it's all a hustle.

I dunno - I think FB is the pits, but my wife finds the FB "Groups" really useful (and it's not like they invented groups, any more than Amazon invented e-commerce etc.). Where Meta is really working the black magic is trying to convince ppl they'll need the "Metaverse"; seems like everyone's laughing at them so far, but I'm afraid to see how successful their push may be.

also co-sign on migs + maelin.

amazing news RE: india.arie! never thought much of her music, but hey — c'mon, let's team up and do this!

Some see the musician as an intellectual hero for taking a stand. Yet Young’s own record in this area is far from pristine. For years, he has spread scientific misinformation about GMO foods. While experts have consistently judged GMO foods to be both safe and useful, Young in one song referred to them as poison. As a guest on the “Late Show With Stephen Colbert” in 2016, Young suggested that GMO foods caused “terrible diseases.” It is hard not to wonder to what degree anti-biotech sentiments like these, ironically, might have fed the current skepticism of Covid vaccines.

Oh for fuck's sake. I could do a detailed takedown of this if anyone's really interested. Suffice to say tho, there are false equivalences and false equivalences, and this is just straight biased whataboutism bullshit.

I still have a lot of anti-GMO friends who are otherwise very intelligent on other matters. lots of people got swept up in anti-GMO mania and acting as if it's inextricably linked to anti-vaccine and being completely anti-science across the board is nutbar.

Neil was cringe-worthy in his anti-GMO stance, yes. but this is definitely ad hominem tu quoque shit.

Cheers. I'm not say "ALL GMO IS BAD" and tbh I don't really know the specifics of Neil's stance. But I see that reflexive "how dare you question the virtue of genetic modification?" defense reflex pop up fairly often in echo chambers of scientism. It's just bullshit. Very much along the same lines as "you will eat your nuclear waste corn flakes and you will like it".

(The precautionary principle is a real, rational and reasonable approach to new technologies. Rogan's Russian-sponsored antivax disinformation is none of that.)

Neil's advice on overcoming depression (i.e. to find someone who's turning and you will come around) is sadly outdated and potentially harmful

At least we keep on rockin in the free world amirite

it's clear that they're trying to say "FITTING THAT NEIL HATES ANTI-VAXXERS, HE CREATED THEM", just like everybody blaming Nirvana for Puddle of Mudd

A man DOES NOT need a maid.

I hit the city and I lost my band
watched pfizer's needle take another man
Gone, gone, the damage done

Please take my advice,
please take my advice
Please take my advice.
Apply a warm washcloth to the tired eyes.

it's a good thing that like 10 people bought The Monsanto Years

say it loud
say it clear
we don't need any
GMOs in here

it's a good thing that like 10 people bought The Monsanto Years

but every one of them started a worldwide pandemic.

lolll

Who was that dick who would give a 5 minute Grammys speech every year about the "dangers" of "stealing music" through file sharing? The "academy" is suspiciously quiet about the current state of industry support, almost as if they no longer feel threatened.

What are the 3rd party playlist transfer apps? Are there some that are better than others? I'm considering giving qobuz a shot.

I used https://www.tunemymusic.com/ to rebuild some playlists from text files, can't compare it to any others but it did a good job and supports transfers between services including qobuz.

I used Soundiiz to transfer my Spotify playlists to Deezer when my Spotify Premium Trial expired. Deezer's UI seems even worse than Spotify though so I'm barely using it now and I might just go back to the old download/sample/buy method.

Who was that dick who would give a 5 minute Grammys speech every year about the "dangers" of "stealing music" through file sharing?

That was the head of the RIAA, and when he did that at the 2002 ceremony, it was the beginning of the end of the music industry.

fwiw, normal spotify + ublock origin is pretty good! no ads, only downside is sometimes you get paused in the middle of the album for an ad that ublock blocks and then you have to try to figure out where in the album you left off.

Looks like Spotify stock has recovered from Friday's crash (fwiw)

I'm thinking about the gradual shift happening on the part of musicians of hatred of "their" label becoming hatred of "the" streaming platforms. When you hated your label you could at least think of people you made a deal with, shook hands with, signed a contract with, were wined and dined and made a faustian bargain with, the feeling you have is parseable: a sort of literary trope that comes from the worlds of bad marriages, magic or the mafia.

The new technological world, a musician is raising a fist against an Orwellian organization never met and never consummated a deal with. How did it happen that your work got so devalued - who did this to you? It's like rueing climate change or globalization, it's not a human story like hating your label, it is a story of hating the changing world, hating soulless technology, hating modernism. Like a farmer getting pennies for her crops due to a glut in the market perhaps?

And "platform" is such an odd skeuomorphism. Yes, Spotify is elevating you above the amateur singer who hasn't bothered to release some mp3s to the world. You are standing on that platform now... with literally millions of others... and most of them are much higher than you on this platform. Really you aren't elevated, a platform is more just a rickety plank in the bobbing sea of the dangerous internet, a shifting location, a phantom platform.

Compare to the metonymous word 'label' was a sort of slap in the face to your identity, you had to align yourself with this cruddy unmusical bunch of business slimeballs who put their name on your record and hoarded the profits. But it was real, you could look at it, it had a history of supporting this or that style of music and your precursors. A label has flavor, unlike a platform.

Until now! Spotify is creating its allegiances by paying particular creators, raising them up highest on the platform.

> fwiw, normal spotify + ublock origin is pretty good! no ads, only downside is sometimes you get paused in the middle of the album for an ad that ublock blocks

This is kind of funny... I'm not sure why this rubs me the wrong way but skipping through ads on a DVR doesn't. It's the same thing isn't it?

I think the worst part is Spotify giving the labels stock in exchange for lower royalty rates. This seems like it should be illegal, and could be the basis for a class-action suit against them, but IANAL.

It's too long to paste, but one Rachel Hurley wrote an epic essay about Spotify etc. that is worth seeking out and reading and will probably get you all a-further talkin'.

Graham Nash pulling his music from Spotify.

Vegas has odds on Young-Nash Band happening before 2024.

Seems like Spotify is losing its MOJO

I see what you did there.

RH's post was a lot.

Had an email from Kristin Hersh's mailing list which seemed like a lot of hemming and hawing which I found pretty disappointing:

From Kristin re: Spotify and taking sides
For what it’s worth, I have never administered or controlled any of “my” Spotify accounts, Throwing Muses, 50 Foot Wave or solo. I have tried to alter them, as I found some material not representative and some catalogue missing, as well as misinformation in bios, etc. Also, Spotify’s algorithmic recommended listening often puts us squarely in the damaging fashion/product/pop star category that I fought so hard to escape. I am not allowed access to any of these accounts, though, so I let that go.

And I have been intrigued by the possibility of removing the dollar sign from music for a long time, to see if we could create a more musically literate populace via the curiosity of exploring sound through genre and era: listeners moved by music, not marketing. 50 Foot Wave was a cooperative for this reason, maintaining a distance from the recording industry. An industry I never made money from, having been held personally accountable for Throwing Muses’ recording debt and having traded my first solo album for my freedom from a corporate label. So while it’s true that I’ve made nothing from Spotify, I’ve also made nothing from record sales. I play music because I love music and I work with people in all facets of this field who feel the same way. The reason a shy feminist musician like me is working at all is because I am listener-supported by Strange Angels, who keep me humble, grateful and recording.

Wouldn’t it be nice if the free music experiment worked and we could begin to shift the paradigm yet again. This time away from shallow and toward sustainability of actual songwriters and musicians, instead of the pop star facsimile. Toward great radio, record companies and journalism; great photographers, engineers and videographers; taking “music” out of the fashion industry and putting music back in the hands of people. Where it was always meant to be, where it always was.

I have never been safe and I have at times been very angry, but with all my heart, I believe that dehumanizing others is not the way. This is just to say that nuance is real, choice is personal and respectful discourse is necessary in every sphere, in every endeavor.

“We have to transcend the tendency to take sides"
— Thich Nhat Hanh

i.e. seemed like her beef was primarily with the financial model and not with platforming dicks.

It kind of speaks to my disappointment in watching this develop over the last week. It seems to me there are two very legitimate reasons to hate Spotify - (reductively) the artist exploitative payment model and their platforming of racists and misinformation. But rather than people pissed about both working together as a united front to take on Spotify, it’s turned into somewhat of a pissing match of each anti-Spotify group sneering at the other for being anti-Spotify for the “wrong” reasons. It’s like, we have a common enemy! Stop belittling each other!

I don't think any artist should be expected to pull their music off Spotify because of the Rogan association - if they want to do so, great, but I don't know where we're supposed to draw the line on that expectation. Amazon, Google, Youtube, Facebook are all more harmful than Rogan, should I expect them to end their involvement with all of those?

Is she… saying that ppl are “dehumanizing” Rogan(?)

(I sure can’t relate to the quote she posted, either, in the context of the covid misinformation debate)

It’s one thing to not care about the Rogan issue, no one has to; but it’s another to say “you guys are being mean to him, let’s be more respectful”

I'm trying out Tidal, which offered me 60 days for $3. I'm currently listening to a track from one of the releases on my own label and it sounds really good. If I can embed tracks for my Stereogum column as easily as I can with Spotify, I'll switch.