Continuing with Spotify?

I dislike Spotify for a few reasons, but yes switching to Apple or Amazon for political reasons (or even the sole reason of disseminating Covid misinformation) does not make a lot of sense. Some people earlier were suggesting that the fact Spotify directly pays Rogan, rather than simply making money off ads a la YouTube, is worse but idk if I find that super convincing.

That said afaict, Qobuz and Tidal don't have the "we murder workers" problem that Apple and Amazon do nor the "paying Joe Rogan $$$" problem, so it's a little disingenuous to frame this as just "Spotify or Apple? what's the diff"

Maybe so. I’ve never heard of Qobuz until about an hour ago. Admittedly I’ve never tried Tidal.

It was initially challenging to get past the "Tidal? lol" reaction, I'll admit

The thing that is bumming me out is that moving to a service that would be equivalent would just be moving to another corporation… I mean, it’s not like Rogan is not in Apple because they are principled. They just lost out o a deal.

otm. also, to the extent that this list of top 100 podcasts on apple podcast is accurate, the current #10 podcast in the united states (on apple podcast) is the Joe Rogan Experience Review, a podcast where some enormous fucking loser spends 45 minutes dissecting the latest joe rogan podcast

#15 is the ben shapiro show.

ben shapiro is worse than joe rogan (but not as popular). he is a hitler youth

the matt walsh show at #35, what a wonderful person he is

i survey the landscape of american podcasts and i want them all to disintegrate my own brain

let me check google/youtube real quick, see if there is any joe rogan-esque content on there

I moved to Tidal from Spotify about 3 months ago after being on Spotify since it originally launched and for the most part I've been content with it. There are a few things that I miss from Spotify, but nothing that would compel me to go back.

The increased emphasis on podcasts combined with the Helsing.ai thing are what pushed me to pull the plug. I'm also trying to shift more of my spending/listening to Bandcamp, but I'm too hooked on streaming at this point to abandon it completely.

I mean, Tidal is now majority-owned by a gross tech bro, if you're looking for a "political" reason to avoid that too

gross how?

Dorsey? I'm half joking (though he's not my type of fellow). He hasn't paid Rogan $100m, that's for sure. If I were a heavy Spotify user, and not invested in Amazon or Apple, I'd prob switch to Tidal - the UI is v similar

The arguments that other platforms also feature reprehensible content are valid but imho the Spotify/Rogan issue is different because of the extent to which Spotify has made Rogan the face of their brand. Rogans show is one of the most popular media properties out there and Spotify's play for him was explicitly about identifying themselves w/him in a bid to lure his audience, which imho puts it in another category than just "I can find people saying worse stuff on other platforms too". Ben Shapiro is a monster & is platformed by Apple Podcasts, but at least they are not repeatedly giving him big public bearhugs the way Spotify does w/Rogan, giving him the PR boost that his views are something Spotify considers normal & mainstream.

That’s a good way of putting it.

they are all tech companies and as a result they are all going to do the awful things that tech companies do. there is no ethical consumption under something something. my point was more that if you decide to switch from Spotify to another streaming service (for whatever reason), you'll get a very comparable product, which wasn't always the case.

WmC, think about how much better dub music is gonna sound in CDQ…

The open letter from health experts, which inspired Young's action, also has specific reasons why they took issue with Rogan/Spotify (and which illustrates why the case is different from other podcast apps passively platforming all those awful but nonexclusive podcasts out there)

So is there a convenient way to, without registering for them, or signing up for a free trial or whatever, see what kind of content the other services have? Like run a few searches and see if they have the same stuff as Spotify?

listening to remain in light on qobuz, do they stream special mixes of certain albums? i'm wondering if some of the new shit i'm hearing in tracks isn't just because of improved sound quality but because it's like some audiophile SACD or whatever

i will say i am noticing the depth of field in recordings a lot more, where things are supposed to 'sit' in the mix is far more apparent

Pertinent question, it seems: How does one pronounce Qobuz? Like, if you're actually talking to someone and you say Spotify or Apple Music, it's easy, but what if you're talking about Qobuz?

Ko-buzz? Quo-buzz?

former ilxor "some dude" with a Spin piece:

https://www.spin.com/2022/01/neil-young-spotify-joe-rogan

Ku-buuss, but you have to say it in a French accent.

i basically cannot remember the name qobuz. i have to glance at the app every time

re: the sentiment of groovypanda's embedded tweet there

yeah, that shit is not cool. this "wrong/right side of history" argument is for tunnel-visioned blowhards. i think we should formally bring back the censure (which twitter started to do a bit with their "this might be misleading info" thingy they started to add to t®ump tweets before they rightfully banned him completely). let these assholes parrot their stupid libertarian scare tactic rhetoric all they want, just put an audio drop over it every thirty seconds that says something like, "this is opinionated misinformation and not based in fact." like yeah, you have free speech it's just that every word that comes out of your mouth is fucking stupid.

Something that’s been nagging away at me for the last two weeks of comparison: is this (ever so slightly better, richer, spacier) Qobuz track just… a tiny bit louder?

I did a very unscientific test today with some jazz and, yes: the Qobuz version AirPlayed to my stereo was maybe 1-1.5dB louder than the same off Spotify. But if I switch to the Spotify Connect version (streamer direct, not AirPlay) the levels appear to the same.

It’s just apples and oranges cos you can’t know how each platform has encoded their tracks, if they’ve normalised or whatever. I found the same frequency-sweep test-tone disc on both platforms - on Qobuz it was 15dB louder! They seemed to have normalised each track.

So… who knows what I’m hearing here. Volume diff, negative effects of 320kOGG to AAC on the fly for AirPlay, genuine improvements due to bitrate.

(No reason for anything to be less than 16/44.1 lossless over wifi thesedays, I’ll grant you that).

Volume diff, negative effects of 320kOGG to AAC on the fly for AirPlay, genuine improvements due to bitrate.

It'd be weird for me to decide now to drop Spotify when their bed-making with Rogan happened two years ago and I didn't do it then.

But I also don't use Spotify much as I buy all of my music digitally and use Amazon Music for 99% of the listening if I go exploring.

Mostly used Spotify cos of weird quirks like how they have Obituary's Slowly We Rot and Amazon doesn't and I only own that album in vinyl form

281 For Sale from $10.00

https://www.discogs.com/master/105649-Obituary-Slowly-We-Rot

That was one example, I'm not paying $10 a month for that one album

Just saying though, Rogans deal was signed in 2020 and he began the worst of his COVID transgressions last April. Neil Young incident a weird line in the sand for me, personally. It wasn't based on anything new Rogan or Spotify did, it was based on a gambit Young took that everybody knew would not result in him being dropped.

I still support his move 100% and hope more artists do it. But the social media HEY EVERYONE WE NEED TO CANCEL SPOTIFY MEMBERSHIP campaigns popping up now, like...why was their relationship with Rogan not worthy of cancelling membership 10 months ago, or when doctors put Rogan on blast?

But otoh whatever reason people want to boycott something is their right and the Rogan connection is a valid reason so I'm not too concerned about it

Mike's posts are becoming incomprehensible in a way that I heartily enjoy. Hope for more of this.

I don't know about the reasons for the controversy but in my own little world I would feel fairly happy for all streaming services to collapse and the world to prove that I was sensible to keep vinyl, CDs and even a CD player. But for individual tracks still to be randomly on YouTube for my convenience.

I don't actually wish for this to happen to damage everyone else's pleasure, though.

Rogans deal was signed in 2020 and he began the worst of his COVID transgressions last April. Neil Young incident a weird line in the sand for me, personally

I get what you are saying, but at the same time during those periods (2020 and April 2021), your average person was probably just a bit distracted by the raging pandemic to worry about taking a stand against Spotify. Yeah I absolutely wish this would have happened in immediate response to Rogan’s deal, but imho better late than never. And to be honest, it’s a little weird for me get nitpicky towards Neil about not doing this sooner when the opposite would be, what, saying he missed his window and needs to shut up about it? Even if I’m skeptical that this will turn out the way we hope, I’m absolutely thrilled that Neil has actually kickstarted a genuine backlash against Spotify and ignited this conversation. Maybe this would have fizzled and been drowned out had it come during the heat of the pandemic.

I found the same frequency-sweep test-tone disc on both platforms - on Qobuz it was 15dB louder! They seemed to have normalised each track.

A test tone would probably have almost no dynamic range and be normalised to 0dBFS so that's mostly accountable for as Spoify reducing it to meet its -14 LUFS standard, I would think?

I don’t know where to stand. As a user I love spotify’s UI and the huge library that allows me to make a 50 song playlist in minutes. It’s so helpful to have so many music in any sort of social gatherings and I don’t want it to fall because I’m not a fan of the other options (tidal, apple music).

As a business model it seems doomed and the payout for artists is ridiculous.

Speaking personally I still buy at least 5 albums every month via bandcamp or vinyl.

Regarding Rogan I don’t care about him and have never seen or heard his podcast. If it helps keep Spotify afloat I guess it’s fine from a business perspective. Every other platform is filled with the same amount of toxicity, the best you can do is not give them specific attention I guess.

Just saying though, Rogans deal was signed in 2020 and he began the worst of his COVID transgressions last April. Neil Young incident a weird line in the sand for me, personally. It wasn't based on anything new Rogan or Spotify did, it was based on a gambit Young took that everybody knew would not result in him being dropped.

True, the Spotify deal wasn’t that long after Bernie’s campaign heralded the Rogan endorsement.

But when do you figure Neil Young first heard of Rogan? A week ago?

the best you can do is not give them specific attention I guess.

Don't give specific attention to the biggest podcast in the world, sure

Rogan's gotten worse recently - the "there are no black people" linked elsewhere, arguing with the guy about myocarditis and just refusing to believe anything but his anti-vax propaganda. Not really a shock that it could be a line in the sand (and yeah, what are the odds Young or Joni Mitchell or these others knew about Rogan at all).

Alessandro Cortini posted that his music is coming off Spotify on Instagram.

Don't give specific attention to the biggest podcast in the world, sure

― reggae mike love (polyphonic)

I mean I have never listened to his podcast. I know he has millions of listeners, but it’s your choice to pay attention to it.

This might be a dealbreaker:

https://www.nme.com/news/music/james-blunt-threatens-to-release-new-music-on-spotify-in-protest-against-joe-rogan-3149555

I bet the Eve 6 guy is pissed that he didn't think of that.

re this Rogan person -- I get the impression that he is very famous and listened-to in the US?

I don't think I know that many people in the UK who would even know who he is. And none at all that would listen to him for a minute.

Feel like it is quite a nationally specific matter (of the kind that, I often remark, strangely still exist despite everything supposedly being internationalised now).

he's very big in the region of my butthole

I always find these kind of comments odd. Like you don’t have dumbasses in the UK media?

he's famous because he was on newsradio with phil hartman. after that, he got into the business of describing people swallow weird shit for 15 minutes of fame. he parlayed that into a podcast career where he pumps iron and talks about newsradio, so americans trust him and kind of look for him to "set the tone" of the "national conversation"

I feel less guilty about using Spotify because I'm usually using it to listen to albums I already own physically and just don't know where they're at (many many moves). And usually anything else I listen to belongs to mega rich superstars.

But most of the bands I listen to sell like 10k albums so not buying them seems like a non-starter to me. Love Bandcamp

And none at all that would listen to him for a minute.

A minute sounds a bit generous

Island boys like Joe Rogan too
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/features/joe-rogan-podcast-jre-uk-b1997036.html

Also there's a UK knockoff called London Real that Trashfuture makes fun of that sounds even dumber than ol Joe.

Things that I wouldn't have predicted 20 years ago:

*A reality tv star would be President
*We'd have a pandemic that killed tens of millions globally and uproot lives for 3 years
*A shitty comedian becomes the self-appointed czar for said pandemic and gets paid $100 million doing it
*Dick Butkus joins Twitter just to troll Aaron Rodgers
*That there would be Twitter and a player named Aaron Rodgers

he's very big in the region of my butthole

― Karl Malone, Saturday, January 29, 2022 12:55 PM

i know we're not even in february yet, but post of the year. thx.

yeah already stolen

Anything requiring upfiring surrounds is not about to take off. I used the headphone version of Atmos, making sure I was doing everything right, fancy DAC and everything. What a congested mess.

Not that I haven't had a bit of fun with surtound music, as a novelty...
Albums in 5.1 surround

I have no insight on fancy formats...

Automatic translations would add a whole extra layer of weirdness. The test I was talking about just used alternate-language titles that the labels were already including in the metadata...

I def. understand the skepticism. I can’t speak to the AirPods Pro thing, but in my experience so far, Atmos/360RA-compatible speaker systems are actually a lot less complicated to set up than the 5.1 system I cobbled together when we moved into our house.

One reason is that these formats are natively compatible with the soundbars that the big box stores are pushing on home entertainment buyers. Those have come along way, have more (and better) speakers inside them (including upfiring ones), connect wirelessly and don’t require a separate receiver you have to stick somewhere. They’re really slick, work with a wider range of listening spaces and speaker setups (you can use dozens of speakers and don’t need to be tuned to Lamont Young’s Theatre of the Eternal Music for it to sound right).

Another is that you are seeing film/streaming/music seemingly moving toward this format together (the latter of which which never quite happened with 5.1 pre-streaming). Collectively I think Atmos/360RA have more potential for a cross-media market than 5.1 ever did.

I would also note that the new albums with immersive mixes—like, say, The Weeknd stuff—sound pretty incredible, with the discrete feel of 5.1 where you get separation but also a much more enveloping feel (likely because of the upfiring speakers act as a kind of “glue”). You can really tell the difference between a record well-mixed for Atmos and a transfer from a 5.1 or quad transfer from the 70s.

At any rate, that’s a long thread hijack. It’s just something that I’d like to see Spotify offer as my main streaming platform. But I get the sense that they are looking at younger markets and less invested in hardware and stuff like HD (which I actually don’t care about). You never know tho.

Thankfully the tiktok style feed has fucked off.

Not for me it hasn’t.

Is the tiktok style thing how it just starts playing suggestions as you scroll down? It's annoying the hell outta me.

Got an email today telling me they're sunsetting my (quite) old version of the desktop client in May, so now I'm going to have to use the shitty nu-Spotify if I want to use it at all.

Why? Just let me live in the good old days.

so glad I quit, some free version is still stuck on my phone but it refuses to play in any other mode than shuffle

garbage platform that will only get worse

meanwhile I am easily spending over $50 a month on Bandcamp, suck it you Rogan enablers

listening to Television Personalities And Don't the Kids Just Love It and this sucks so much, it's sourced from a not particularly good vinyl copy, audible surface noise and distortion at point

had this experience with Roger Miller's Words and Music this week. :(

i found a few inconsistencies in song titles from the CDs i remember having -- one in swapped song titles and one with an extra word thrown in. it's the kind of glitch i feel like it would be hard to get anyone's attention about so i just move on.

with the swapped song titles the issue could be with the CD i have not having the titles in the correct order but what is the correct order then? (roy montgomery scenes from the south island) the other one was def an error. (the song as i know it is "you're still beautiful" and spotify claims it's "you're still so beautiful" which is not how the lyrics in the song go whatsoever.) again what am i supposed to do about this?! so i put it here.

Pretty sure all those issues will be down to the distributor that provided the audio/metadata