Taking 1989 as an example, I don't know why they'd credit cowriters for 12 of the 13 songs on the album if she wasn't fully responsible for writing "This Love."
― Indexed, Monday, 24 January 2022 23:24 (two years ago) link
I quickly checked the credits of a few Blur albums; looks like Albarn writes (most of) the lyrics himself, but the music is all credited to the band(?) Is he mainly talking about lyrics here?
― Rockin’, and rollin’, and whatnot (morrisp), Monday, 24 January 2022 23:28 (two years ago) link
she's been pretty open talking about her creative processes in working with varying songwriting partners over the years, none of it's really a secret.
― ufo, Monday, 24 January 2022 23:33 (two years ago) link
Didn't she even do a documentary about the process for Folklore?
― A really interesting songwriter is Billie Eilish and her brother. (morrisp), Monday, 24 January 2022 23:39 (two years ago) link
yeah, it was a live-in-studio session where they'd cut to discussions of the songwriting process etc. after each song
― ufo, Monday, 24 January 2022 23:42 (two years ago) link
I've always assumed TS made a point of filling an entire album with solo credits partly to blunt this kind of thing. But yeah mostly makes Albarn just look out of it. Even casual fans know that she is a capital-S Songwriter.
She obviously likes co-writing too, and she's been smart about who she works with. It may be the most Nashville thing that she's retained from her early years.
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Monday, 24 January 2022 23:46 (two years ago) link
I would love to hear a start-to-end document of how some of these pop songs begin and how they make it to their final forms, but that shit is no doubt locked down.
I remember a Rick Beato video where he talks about this one pretty boilerplate (but good!) chord progression, and he pulls up every one of Max Martin's 22 number one hits or something and notes absolutely *none* of them use the boilerplate chord progression *except* the Taylor Swift song, which he surmises is because she insisted he use them. Which isn't a bad thing at all, she knows what she's doing!
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 24 January 2022 23:47 (two years ago) link
Even if she didn't write her own songs (which obv is false), which is this still allowed to scan as a critique in 2021
― they were written with a ouija board and a rhyming dictionary (Neanderthal), Monday, 24 January 2022 23:50 (two years ago) link
as i said this info is very public for a ton of songs - a lot of it's readily available on the wikipedia pages for her albums in varying degrees of detail, and there's other details from interviews that haven't made it there.
― ufo, Monday, 24 January 2022 23:56 (two years ago) link
I said hear, not read. I would love to hear the earliest glimmers of some of these pop songs and their gradual transition into the finished product.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 24 January 2022 23:57 (two years ago) link
Have you ever listened to the podcasts Song Exploder or Tape Notes? They can vary from episode to episode, but sometimes they get into the deep-down gritty origins of things. The Carly Rae Jepsen episode of Song Exploder is an example of one where they take you from the raw demos through to the finished song.
https://songexploder.net/carly-rae-jepsen
― peace, man, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 00:43 (two years ago) link
I don't want to hear it! It's not interesting, and it places burden of proof on her on what is the least interesting part of making pop/country singles. xpost
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 25 January 2022 00:48 (two years ago) link
Swift has released quite a few voice memo demos over the years, you can find them on YouTube and elsewhere. It's obviously not the songs at their very earliest, but they're still pretty gestational. Pretty interesting.
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, 25 January 2022 00:53 (two years ago) link
Yeah, I'm not just talking about Swift, I'm talking about lots of songs. I always love learning about the choices artists and producers make, all the different directions they could have gone.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 00:58 (two years ago) link
I agree. It's one of the fun things about the Dylan bootleg series, e.g., the way you can hear the songs evolve as he tries different things in the studio.
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, 25 January 2022 01:00 (two years ago) link
Dylan didn't write his own songs! Let me tell you about Jacques Levy (sips drink, takes drag from cig)
― A really interesting songwriter is Billie Eilish and her brother. (morrisp), Tuesday, 25 January 2022 01:06 (two years ago) link
Is any song ever actually "written"?
― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Tuesday, 25 January 2022 01:07 (two years ago) link
The really important thing about this whole exchange is that it brought this fucking asshole out from under his rock:
Damon's right and I don't give a fuck.Taylor's worst-selling album (before Spotify came along and made that not much of a thing at all) was the one she wrote herself to prove she could do it and that album was immediately followed by her bringing in Max Martin to prove ____?— Tyler Mahan Coe (@TylerMahanCoe) January 25, 2022
― but also fuck you (unperson), Tuesday, 25 January 2022 01:33 (two years ago) link
who the fuck is this guy?
I replied b/c I'm bored.
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 25 January 2022 01:53 (two years ago) link
He hosts that Cocaine & Rhinestones podcast about country music that music journalists all seem to love.
― but also fuck you (unperson), Tuesday, 25 January 2022 02:00 (two years ago) link
Ugh, hate to see that. I like some of that show. Meanwhile, the president-elect of Chile is a Swiftie.
Here in Chile you have a huge group of supporters who knows that you write you own songs from the heart. Dont take seriously guys that need to insult or lie to get attention. Hugs from the south Taylor— Gabriel Boric Font (@gabrielboric) January 25, 2022
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, 25 January 2022 02:02 (two years ago) link
lol Coe is an insufferable troll. The podcast rules though.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 02:11 (two years ago) link
Has Billie said anything? “Thanks but no thanks?”
― A really interesting songwriter is Billie Eilish and her brother. (morrisp), Tuesday, 25 January 2022 02:12 (two years ago) link
Am I allowed to pick neither side in this?
― imago, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 09:36 (two years ago) link
you don't have to be a swift fan to admit albarn was just being wrong & dumb
― ufo, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 09:46 (two years ago) link
Oh obviously. He's been an awful cunt for so long it's hard to say if he wasn't always one
― imago, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 10:05 (two years ago) link
taytay's popular-girl 'I used to like you, but WOW. YIKES. You are SO DONE HERE' act (which is also in all her music, and her extremely extensive stan-army twitter presence) manages to grate almost as much as albarn's clueless misogyny though
― imago, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 10:15 (two years ago) link
read the rest of the interview & it's very bad and seems to be almost begging for albarn to say something stupid like this "what did you think of the beatles documentary" "what did you think of boris johnson's lockdown parties" etc
― ufo, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 10:19 (two years ago) link
xp I don’t really care for TS but this stupid post puts me firmly on her side
― mardheamac (gyac), Tuesday, 25 January 2022 10:22 (two years ago) link
OTM x1000
― Someone left a space telescope out in the rain (Tom D.), Tuesday, 25 January 2022 10:39 (two years ago) link
Albarn always has always struck me as the worst kind of arrogant middle-class English bell end. It still mystifies me that anyone actually cares about his music or are interested in what he has to say. Has he ever actually been seen as a perceptive and interesting individual? Because I must have fucking missed it if the cunt ever said anything worth paying attention to.
― calzino, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 10:42 (two years ago) link
xp a thousand? thank you for attempting to simulate the stan army pile-on experience just for me
― imago, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 10:43 (two years ago) link
imagine this being your personality
― mardheamac (gyac), Tuesday, 25 January 2022 10:58 (two years ago) link
― mardheamac (gyac), Tuesday, 25 January 2022 10:59 (two years ago) link
well now he looks like an ugly college lecturer in full mid-life crisis!
― calzino, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 11:03 (two years ago) link
I'd be interested to hear more about systematic co-writing and if it's ever used to protect an artist's brand. I have no interest or opinion on the particulars in the case of Albarn-Swift and I'm happy to believe the people defending her (lol at Chile's president), but I've still occasionally wondered about this. The case at hand shows it is a sensitive subject, and people here seem to confirm the process is kept secretive and it's not easy to know for sure. Have we somehow gone back to a time when "songwriter" credits are more important than they were previously (50s-60s, 80-90s), when being a pure pop performer was accepted, but now the performer cannot be seen to be separated from the creative team? And co-writing is a convenient way to muddle everything and maintain the illusion? Or maybe not, and it's case by case and several pop stars don't claim any (or minimal) control over the creative process. It still seems like an ingredient of reputability and a marketing value for some though, despite all the discourse to the contrary since, what, 15-20 years that haven't really dispelled the myth of the artist-as-creator. Do we ever get out of that cycle.
― Nabozo, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 11:06 (two years ago) link
he looks as if he worked at the college cafeteria serving warmed over pizza
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 25 January 2022 11:06 (two years ago) link
what I do know is that if she had Antonoff, he had Coxon
― imago, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 11:09 (two years ago) link
Winners all round baby
Just came here to show Taylor solidarity and found @gabrielboric. Love that international socialist Swiftie power! 🌹✨— Zarah Sultana MP (@zarahsultana) January 25, 2022
― mardheamac (gyac), Tuesday, 25 January 2022 11:16 (two years ago) link
Ofc she takes it very seriously
My #SpotifyWrapped will come as a surprise to ✨absolutely no-one✨ pic.twitter.com/H3zWuoOkTu— Zarah Sultana MP (@zarahsultana) December 2, 2021
― mardheamac (gyac), Tuesday, 25 January 2022 11:24 (two years ago) link
look ok obv albarn is the baddie here, we're all acknowledging it, but if it's come to recognising the socialist success story that is taylor swift, something's gone a little awry perhaps
― imago, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 11:31 (two years ago) link
blaming a popstar for the wild and OTT behaviour of their fanbase is unfair, if people want to get caught up in stan culture then they're choosing to participate in that side of things, and as ugly as it is there's no reason to assume that a loud minority of online aggressive fans represent what actual listeners and "normal" fans are like
― boxedjoy, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 11:33 (two years ago) link
Maybe accusing someone of not performing the work she’s well documented of having done isn’t anything besides being an ignorant cunt and reaching for the slightest reason to defend Albarn in this light is deeply suspicious at best idk
― mardheamac (gyac), Tuesday, 25 January 2022 11:35 (two years ago) link
people saying that her being a bit irritating, and that is on the same level as Albarn's attempts to discredit her agency via misogynistic tropes, is exactly why women have to work twice as hard to be taken seriously and have to be vocally defensive about their own work too.
― boxedjoy, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 11:38 (two years ago) link
I don't know anything about Taylor Swift's online fanbase and don't care, Albarn was always a git but now he's outed himself as just another grumpy rockist old git.
― Someone left a space telescope out in the rain (Tom D.), Tuesday, 25 January 2022 11:40 (two years ago) link
never claimed for a second that albarn wasn't in the wrong, or that his statements weren't both idiotic and misogynistic (not to mention an old cliche), but there's also no doubt that swift knows exactly how powerful she is and how to wield that power for greatest personal gain - the idea that she's ignorant of what her stan army is like is surely fanciful. i am not defending albarn at all here though (hence 'awful cunt')
― imago, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 11:45 (two years ago) link
Have we somehow gone back to a time when "songwriter" credits are more important than they were previously (50s-60s, 80-90s), when being a pure pop performer was accepted, but now the performer cannot be seen to be separated from the creative team? And co-writing is a convenient way to muddle everything and maintain the illusion? Or maybe not, and it's case by case and several pop stars don't claim any (or minimal) control over the creative process.
it's very case-by-case. there are pop acts who are very hands on with the songwriting and/or production even if they work with co-writers & producers. there are pop acts who seem to have a more curatorial role, selecting beats and providing guidance for arrangements and usually having co-writers help flesh out their lyrics. there are pop acts who don't really pretend to be too creatively involved but are now contractually insisting on writing credits (this is a trend that only really took off last decade). it doesn't seem like we really see the older, most 'manufactured' model of pop act too much anymore, where there's not really any illusion of creative involvement at all. most acts that used to fit into that box have managed to move into one of the others as their careers have progressed.
― ufo, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 11:47 (two years ago) link
― mardheamac (gyac), Tuesday, 25 January 2022 11:55 (two years ago) link
Not only that, but what he suggested - that the musicians created the music, and she comes along afterwards and listens to it and makes some lyrics - is how the last Blur album was made.
― Mark G, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 12:21 (two years ago) link
I think the issue here is that statements like Albarn's are not "old cliches" but widely accepted biases
The fact that Albarn would casually make such an aside as if he expects an "amirite" kinda response is super-indicative of how normalized this line of thought really is
― flamboyant goon tie included, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 13:09 (two years ago) link