Post a controversial music opinion

Not a KC fan but I like Red and Discipline in equal measure, even if I file the latter next to Belew solo albums. Fripp's guitar orchestra thing is all-time also

Yeah, Discipline and ItCotCK also S tier

I mean, I kind of agree that the Pixies aren't great in that I don't own any of their albums any longer, in any format, and associate them deeply with getting very stoned when I was in high school. Like many people, certain bands have been confined to that period of life for me— I just have no desire to hear their music any longer, though once in a while I get a hankering to hear "Bird Dream of the Olympus Mons"

The Malady album from last year was really good if you like early KC.

jesus christ, i go for a walk and clean the house and this is how you guys behave???

(also thank you everyone for playing along. my ultimate point i was trying to make in here the past few days is that everyone and everything is ultimately pretty fantastic and absolutely terrible all at the same time. none of it actually matters, no matter how passionately we feel about any of it. isn't that funny?)

yammering on about the oldies bugging you? in two weeks we'll have had the EOYs and a whole load of brand shiny new controps will be primed and ready

― imago, Tuesday, January 18, 2022 9:54 AM

count me in!

eddie hazel, btw.

my ultimate point i was trying to make in here the past few days is that everyone and everything is ultimately pretty fantastic and absolutely terrible all at the same time.

good point that i really did not get from anything you wrote

maybe b/c just saying something is absolutely terrible is not as persuasive as pointing out what's terrible about it?

Springsteen is Meat Loaf if Meat Loaf's collaborator was Steinbeck, not Steinman.

sounds good to me

The Loafs of Meat

East of Paradise by the Dashboard Lights

okay, i'll do a serious one in here for once. and this is more of an open question; not really a controp.

it's probably no surprise to anyone that i thought meat loaf committed some pretty heinous musical crimes and generally laughed at his music because i thought it was so awful. yet, there he goes, another victim of this fucking pandemic and what do i about it? i'm a huge music appreciator, so i feel a sense of loss whenever any musician passes away. maybe i'm giving him (and people like him) too much credit, but i do feel like anyone who does music at that level certainly has (or had, at one point) a passion for it — and maybe i'm just a simp-y sentimental goofus, but i think anyone who has that sort of passion for art and creative endeavours has to have some sort of semblance of goodness in their heart.

but, by all accounts, he was an anti-vax reality denying weirdo in the end. did he deserve to die because of that? how should i know? does it make me feel better knowing that someone who made music i abhor is now dead, likely as a result of his own decisions? not really at all, no. i'm not going to go back to the meat loaf discography and try to appreciate it because it's just not my kind of music and he seemed like kind of an asshole. and anyway, he's got enough defenders. but i still feel like, "dang, we lost another one."

i can't celebrate death no matter how much it might seem justified, i guess, is what i'm saying.

think alfred summed it up on the proper meat loaf thread pretty well: rip and fuck you. but i still feel kinda bad for putting it like that.

but i think anyone who has that sort of passion for art and creative endeavours has to have some sort of semblance of goodness in their heart.

God knows why you think this tbh.

sweet, i'll ask him at church tomorrow.

Meatloaf was an anti-vaccine conspiracy nut and climate change denier. Fuck that guy. Good riddance.

— NYCTaper (@nyctaper) January 21, 2022

that's my conundrum: i kind of agree, but i mean that's some harsh shit to say about anybody.

I will still blast "Paradise..." in the car.

He can fuck right off to hell for potentially infecting others with his errant nonsense.

bat out of hell iii: fucking off right back into hell. again.

I have an unmixed sympathetic response to individuals who publicly grieve the passing of a musician who a. had a truly profound effect on their life (John Fahey was it, for me), b. who they knew personally, c. somebody who was young and there's a tragedy there (Mac Miller), or d. who was visible/meaningful enough that their passing feels like some kind of signpost for an "end of an era" (Whitney Houston, Prince).

I also have an unmixed sympathetic response to "fuck him, glad he's dead" statements made by individuals who have directly experienced harm from a musician on the occasion of their passing

Beyond that it all just seems like a lot of song and dance. Musicians (or any public figures) passing seems more like people get reminded of the passing of time, the decay of the body, the withering of the zeitgeist, the waning of attention paid to this music or that. Some people like that @nyctaper dude might take Meat Loaf's death as an opportunity to express their hard-line anti-anti-vaxxer opinions-- "if you are an anti-vaxxer, then I wish you dead". I don't think that tweet has anything to do with Meat Loaf or his music, it's just a re-assertion that "if you have beliefs that I consider are harmful then I will celebrate your death". That's fine I guess. The list of people whose deaths I intend to celebrate is pretty short and Meat Loaf's application to said list didn't even make it past the application process. The list of people whose deaths I intend to celebrate publicly is really short, maybe Trump and Kissinger? maybe, even that feels like more than they deserve

I don't like Frank Zappa's music but I'm sad he died at age 52 because it makes me worried that me or people I love are gonna die of prostate cancer, that's my grief about his passing really

I don't celebrate his death, to be clear, but we're in a new place where a person's attitudes toward a pandemic get amplified thanks to their celebrity, and, well, they place themselves in scenarios where they breathe their toxins on other people. So.

I remember this whole thing came up with Trump, and his attitude and actions during the pandemic had a far more damaging effect. My immediate response was fuck that guy, if he dies it may actually SAVE lives after all the shit he did attacking people actually trying to help. He made things tremendously worse overall and continued to do so. I feel more that way now given what he did after surviving. It's not celebrating what could have been his death, it's being angry about his willful lack of responsibility for his actions, leaning hard into the worst consequences with sociopathic abandon.

I have an entirely different metric of "wishing ill" when it comes to policy-makers, me

fgti with some good praxis about musician deaths which is like every day now.

truly wonder what if any musician deaths we'll be mourning in 30 years. or will mass media just not exist anymore.

Keith Richards maybe

I have an entirely different metric of "wishing ill" when it comes to policy-makers, me

― flamboyant goon tie included, Saturday, January 22, 2022 3:47 PM (seventeen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Right, me too. Those people are often directly responsible for the suffering and misery of others. When someone on Twitter says something like this about a pop star though, it just seems needlessly cruel and tasteless and fucked up to me. Like, OK, we get it, you're anti-anti-vaxxers - I am too, emphatically - but can we at least have the decorum to allow the body to get cold before the guy's grieving family happens to read about how some boorish indie rocker attorney is glad he's dead? I mean, the guy wasn't Kissinger. He wasn't even Mike Love!

or will mass media just not exist anymore.

― Nedlene Grendel as Basenji Holmo (map), Saturday, January 22, 2022 1:11 PM

the best timeline, i reckon.

also yeah, you'd have to convince me that politicians are real people before you can get me to care about when one of them dies.

excuse me -- people elected to political office are very much real people

afaic the greatest tragedy of the modern age is that we're not seeing the Reagans and HWs and Trumps of the world get the Grimm Bros x Mussolini fairy-tale ending that they and their families deserve. I myself don't think it's maybe all that cool to be shitposting Meat Loaf for his anti-COVID beliefs immediately following his death from COVID, but on the other hand I would very much like to see Barron Trump ground up and turned into meat loaf and force-fed to his father, so who knows where my moral compass is pointed, really, in the end

i would not
it is not barron's fault that he was born into that family and he is a child!

y'all are cruel

excuse me -- people elected to political office are very much real people

― Piggy Lepton (La Lechera), Saturday, January 22, 2022 1:43 PM

then why don't any of them act like it?

(also don't worry, i'm not about to go all reptilian theory or anything. i know what you mean, but i was speaking more metaphorically. just can't stand the whole lot. very detestable. agree with the intensity of fgti's rage, but holy shit too far man! lech otm, not the kids' fault when they're still that young.)

tell that to the Congressional Black Caucus before you claim they are not "real people" jfc!

the only vibe i am getting here is that people need to get a grip on their rage

in addition to the awful people (of whom there are many) there are plenty of good people doing work in government at all levels and their families do not deserve your vitriol
the end!

it is not barron's fault that he was born into that family and he is a child!

You're right, we should probably starve him in a cage for a few weeks first

Also, noted, [/rage]

there are a lot of good people in government. particularly at the local level. not their fault they're part of a system in which it's much easier to obstruct than actually help people

but look big difference between politicians and musicians. nobody's getting their views on politics and science from Meat Loaf. he's a shitty person, so what? a lot of them are. at the end of the day, even though I did not like Meat Loaf and have never listened to a full album, I did have some fun times in bars with his music playing and he made a lot of people happy. I thought he was kind of hilarious in his own weird way. even if you didnt like him he was ubiquitous enough that it feels like a small part of yourself dying.

Keep rolling with the idea that people who run for elected office or work in public service are opportunistic or ill-intentioned as a whole, and eventually that's who we'll have in every office

I know more than a few kind, reasonable people who have dropped out of running for re-election for things in recent years because it's just not worth it

not mad about this, but also not really here to talk politics because i don't subscribe to any political agendas. will say this though: sides and groups literally don't matter anymore. sad that there's even such a needed thing as a black caucus. kind of illustrates my issue with the whole system. nobody's winning and the more we hold onto old ideas, the faster we're all gonna lose.

but anyway, back to the music. frogs big otm here and what i was wrestling with upthread i would guess:

I thought he was kind of hilarious in his own weird way. even if you didnt like him he was ubiquitous enough that it feels like a small part of yourself dying.

thing with the COVID denier hate is that we all know there's a huge misinformation industry wrt so why are we surprised that it's working just as intended and a lot of people got fooled

also each and every one of us has listened to music by ppl who did far worse than Meatloaf not believing COVID

Yes, next to the occasional murderer, paedophile or rapist, anti-vaxxers don't seem quite so bad.

Meat (Loaf) Is Murder

okay THAT is funny

wtf @ Barron Trump torture fantasies but we ought not to zing poor mr meat loaf

any boogie and electro funk from 82-85 far surpasses Depech Mode.

I don’t care for DM much either, but isn’t that basically just another variation on Austin’s earlier thing (moving it up a few years)?

Probably. I don't understand why they are so highly rated and have become techno cannon though. I guess I don't get the epic impulse in pop music, it ends up sounding more than not like music to tune car hifi's to.

people can readily admit italo disco is akin to the happy hardcore of its day, but they can't admit that DM is like the 90s eurohouse of its day.

P.S: 90s happy hardcore up until about 97 is better than Italo in every conceivable way.

I’ll post another one of my own (just to push some of that grossness from earlier further above the fold):

George Michael’s “Father Figure” is the greatest pop song of its decade.

strong contender for sure. George was da man!