mountaineering

The 1960 Chinese expedition ran out of oxygen on the way up, so they're another in the question mark column. I believe they summited - given their descriptions of the third step and onward. I think Messner is sore simply because they did it without oxygen. Synott's book The Third Pole reviews much of the unearthed documentation of the 1960 expedition (and indirectly interviews the last surviving summiter) and the political back-and-forth.

I wish that Tracy wasn't so dismissive of the 2019 expedition to look for Irvine and his camera but I think he's hung up a narrative of brave adventureous men carrying their banners with strange devices. Synott's tales of looting abandoned tents, resting up against frozen dead, and the constant spectre of having to climb up the second step ladder next to a dead climber that's hanging upside down. All of this is set against the current political economy of Everest itself. I'm still kinda shocked at the entertainment complex that's formed around Indian families sending their kids up to the summit in exchange for a big cash payout.

Also discussed in Synott's book - sometime between 1975 (when Wang Hongbao reports "old English dead") and 2008, the CTMA found and removed Irvine's body. Mallory's body seems to have been removed too, but that's more unclear.

tracy's recent youtubes are well worth catching up on; the story is very rich now and i like the way he painstakingly explores each separate element (the watch, the rocks, the ice axes, the oxygen bottles, mallory's planning): he talks a lot abt synott's book, which he likes (with reservations). he doesn't believe the chinese have removed irvine's body -- as he puts in one of the most recent (my paraphrase), "they don't care about mallory and irvine, they care about their own 1960 summit being respected and acknowledged"

is he driven by a romantic and idealised vision of M&I's climb? i mean, he's pretty unromantic about both of them -- i think tbh he's more driven (as a lawyer when he isn't an everest-hobbyist) by irritation and frustration when ppl lie or obscure the truth or mess with evidence, or invent unevidenced explanations of anomalies in a story, whether it's norton back in 1924 or the chinese or the 1999 expedition (which synott is very critical of)* or the 2019 expedition's evasiveness about its drone footage and so on

i find his "post-truth" riddles fairly exasperating but his point that ppl in this context very often fib abt themselves -- and that a lot of the journalism that cover this field is bad at pushing back against that -- seems p well taken

*i haven't read the synott book, which looks genuinely very interesting in a wider sense than this one micro-topic

We interrupt this thread's programming of "Historical Himalayas" with a special new bulletin... Eberhard Jurgalski at 8000ers.com finally issued his report after a decade of research on who has actually been to the true summit of all 8000m peaks and who only got near to it.

Rumors had swirled in the climbing community for months. Eberhard Jurgalski and his team at 8,000’ers.com were about to release research that would change the history of alpinism. Well, the bomb has arrived.

History may or may not change but, at least, it has provided material for both heated debate and quiet reflection. Basically, Jurgalski states that only three people have really summited all 14 of the world’s 8,000m peaks.

In the new list, the first person to summit all of them was not Reinhold Messner, but American Ed Viesturs. Both he and the second on the list, Veikka Gustafsson of Finland, completed the challenge without supplementary oxygen. In fact, Gustafsson and Viesturs climbed together on a number of expeditions.

The bronze medal goes to Nirmal Purja who, on the same list, loses his Project Possible speed record. According to Jurgalski, Purja did not summit Manaslu and Dhaulagiri during his Project Possible race in 2019. Instead, he only reached sub-summits. He only properly topped out during follow-up climbs last fall.

Moreover, Jurgalski claims that Purja knew from the outset exactly where the actual summits of those two mountains were, "because we spoke about it months earlier," Jurgalski said. "Nearly secretly, he 'corrected' it in autumn 2021, when he went to the true summits of both mountains."

The NYT has the background on everything as of a year back.

I dunno... I look at something like the summit of Manaslu and can't really go hard on this issue but if you wanna claim that you went to the top you gotta go. Otherwise, drones, gps, other climbers, and the internet massive can and will rat you out.

https://www.journeyera.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/CLIMB-MANASLU-MOUNTAIN-NEPAL-0082.jpg

I remember reading Edward Whymper's book when I was a kid. And now...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-W_nFlIAWFM

(terrible background music ahead - keep it muted & play yr own)

i also read whymper's book as a kid: it had victorian woodcuts which were mostly scenic (and therefore of no interest to me) and then a section depicted what happened to whymper's team as they descended the matterhorn having successfully been the first to get to the top (basically on of the least experienced climbers slipped, cannoned into the most experienced, knockign them both off -- then the rope meant to hold them broke and several of them fell to their deaths; whymper and two aline guides survived)

anyway i found these woodcuts super-spooky and returhed to gaze in horror at them many times

i don't have the book to hand but checking GiS suggests that the engravings were actually by whymper himself -- though there's also some of the incident by gustav doré

https://www.futilitycloset.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/2018-06-22-an-apparition.jpg

The engraving of the apparition is what has always stuck in my head. I hadn't realized that folks were working on the geometry of fogbow/ice crystals and may have discovered the answer

to pick thru the puritan brainwork of myself as a very serious 10-yr-old nerd:
i: i was huffy that whymper's big official engraving (above) misrepresented the scene as depicted in his better sketch (sketch can be see at the link) where the lines of the crosses are plainly more curved -- and therefore more likely perhaps to have a "scientific" than a "supernatural" cause
ii: i concluded it could not be "supernatural" bcz 4 ppl had died and there plainly are not 4 crosses. QED! facts and logic!

reading up on it now i discovered what i didn't grasp then: which is that this was a team very hurriedly cobbled together bcz whymper discovered that a colleague-rival was making a serious attempt on the same day. from nearby hotels he put together a group of fellow brit scramblers and local guides, who didn't all know one another at all -- and one of whom (the guy who caused the fall) was very inexperienced and really shouldn't have been there. whymper got to the top first; the rival saw this from below and despondently broke off his own attempt (who cares who's second); then on the way down the inexperienced guy slipped and pulled three others off the mountainside :(

in the aftermath whymper was slammed (and almost cancelled) for various assumed failings -- from making up the apparition to cutting the rope that saved the other three from being pulled off as well -- and it became an intense media talking-point for a while. queen victoria apparently considered banning brits from all rock climbing! (not sure how this would have been enforced in e.g. switzerland… )

Bummed to hear about what happened to Dmitry Golovchenko on Gasherbrum IV.
https://explorersweb.com/gasherbrum-iv-ends-sadly/