Dark Souls 2: YOU DIED HARDER

Yeah that was exactly my impression, it felt like a full-game fan-mod

I imagine that it would've been enjoyable when it arrived, with no other From titles in the ether, but I can't imagine playing it for longer than the hour that I did... especially after sneaking peeks at certain boss fights, I'm kinda appalled!

Shrine of Amana was an infamously difficult gauntlet on release, to the point where they patched it and made it easier. I played it but can't remember why exactly -- probably something to do with your movement being slowed in the water and enemies shooting ranged magic at you from everywhere?

Yes. In fact, I killed the Frog Boss on the first try then decided to backtrack to the bonfire I missed, to see what other good stuff I missed, and it was such a PIA that I gave up on it. Wizards shooting homing magic at you, while pretty tough other dudes are swinging at you and lizard people are jumping out of the water at you, and then the occasional giant knight or hippo, and ... whatever. Sooooo much harder than the boss.

literally just lost 100k souls in demons souls to an invader popping up and ganking me as i was summoning a friend
this fucking game

I've become at peace with losing souls. DS2, at least, really seems to throw souls at you, especially at my stage, so if I lose thousands it never feels like the end of the world.

I'm at the level with the bellringers and rocks in the way and magic casters and it kind of sucks and just encourages you to find a way to speed past shit. Iirc this might be the only one of these games that offers NPC summons at the *start* of levels, not just for bosses, which is an admission there's a whole lot of bullshit to clear out and deal with.

Just killed ... I forget his name. Not Vendrick but the guy with the hammer/bell before him? Anyway, unrelated, this game, way more than any of the others, really seems to favor ranged attacks and, based on the items, magic? I keep getting tons and tons of stuff and talking to tons and tons of NPCs I really have no need for. Meanwhile, as a pretty meat and potatoes strength build (though honestly I've leveled up a bunch of stuff) there's really nothing for me. No need for magic, etc, no need to use stones or anything. Just my good ol' mace and a claymore (for when I need to sweep and stab). I have all these awesome strength scaling swords, but they're so fucking heavy I'd rather go for weaker than be forced to fat roll.

Killed the dragon. Yet *another* case in DS2 where the path to the boss was harder than the boss.

Just did Dragonland, too, at least the early part, and it was surprisingly chill and threat-free for something that lets you fight multiple dragons. What a weird game.

I did both dragon worlds, which were oddly empty and easy and with no bosses. Huh. The funny thing was that I went to a different area to check something out after, the place with the lion men, and there was some glitch that made their roar follow me to subsequent different levels I was re-exploring. It was like adventuring in a zoo.

Vendrick is (I think) the first boss I haven't beaten on the first or second try. Granted, there's no summons, and I have often been taking advantage of them, at the least to speed up this seemingly loooooong game. But also what makes it tricky (for me) is that he is like a reverse skill check: he doesn't seem hard, he's not fast and just walks in a circle, but he hits like a tank and swings wide, so it's all about being patient, like a boring dance. Hit, step step, hit, step step. For a long time. I learned about the Giant Souls making him easier/normal, and he's optional, but still.

And now he's been vanquished. What a boring boss. I think there are ... three DLCs to do next? I've heard both that they're among the best in all the games but also at least one of them is among the most frustrating. Also I assume there is at least one final boss to get, as far as the main game/"plot" goes.

Eh, I just went ahead and finished the main game. Man, the final cavalcade of bosses in this is a breeze compared to Sekiro. Here's how I would rank all the From games (not including the DLC for DS2, which I'll get to soon).

Best game: Bloodborne. Hands down, best lore, most surprises, best look/design, best play style, great DLC.
Worst game: DS2. It gets better, but it is so unbalanced. Bosses are easy, levels and regular enemies tough, janky gameplay. But still fine/fun.
Best Dark Souls: Probably the first, but I really liked the third.
Favorite all around: I want to say DS3 or BB, especially with the DLC.
Least favorite all around: Sekiro. It's really well designed but I never clicked with the gameplay or setting or lack of options. Didn't bother with all that epic PIA endgame stuff.
Worst plot: all of them are impenetrable gibberish about cycles and reincarnation and blood and thrones, and I don't care how many youtube videos claim otherwise.

have you played demon souls yet

No, I don't have a PS5.

i'm in endgame of the first runthrough. holds up well but SO MANY OUTDATED PLAYSTYLES and they opted to leave them in.

Today I figured, well, I don't really have time to play much, but I can at least get to the first bonfire of each DLC to save some time later. I start with Sunken King and quickly realize, ugh, one more run through this poison bullshit to get to the warp spot, but I do it and get to the DLC bonfire. Then I move on to Ivory King, which is easy enough, and get to the bonfire. That leaves Iron King, so I zip over to where I need to be, warp, and ... I'm missing a key. I've been pretty good at following along with a guide, nowhere near 100% but getting most of the major stuff, so I wonder how I could be missing something so, well, key. And it turns out they hid the key in with the fire salamanders all the way back toward the start. Lol, what a PIA, those things suck, no wonder I skipped them. I get the Heavy Iron Key, which is easy enough, but decide to stick around and fight them a bit to see what other loot is there and ... man, even end of game and all leveled up, they're tough! Especially for enemies encountered so early in the game.

My only (positive) memory of the DS2 dlc is the Fume Knight boss fight, that felt worth figuring out. But then I hit Sir Alonne and bailed.

Started ... I don't know which one I started. Sunken City of Sorrow or something? So far seems OK, albeit with the usual DS2 hard lean into gratuitous pain in the assery. Moving platforms! Moving poison statues! Level design that literally made me motion sick! Which is the second time that's happened in this game. The first was in the swaying bridge illusion in Dragon Land. This one starts out with a similar crooked fun house illusion that messed with my brain.

OK, this three-on-one boss fight might be the first I jus skip (aside from the gargoyles, I guess, which I may go back and unlock). It's just kind of boring and a pain, and adding Havel just to pancake you is like the stupid icing on the stupid cake.

I know it's not the way the game is supposed to be played, but there is nothing more satisfying than returning to an area/boss you skipped once you are massively over-leveled and just kicking its ass. Looking at you, gargoyles in the Belfry. These DLC bosses, on the other hand, they don't mess around.

I forgot about that 3v1 fight, I thought that was a funny meta-commentary on the common gank squad. :) And I actually remember enjoying it too, it was sort of a puzzle to figure out how to properly cheese/separate them.

It's literally a slog. Run around the arena in circles fast, then go slooow down in the water, then move back up and repeat. Maybe later. I just killed ... I don't know its name, the one that can summon the other one, and/or skeletons. Not too bad, took a few tries to get it down. I think there's a big dragon immediately next. Then I'll move on to a different DLC.

I like when I google for tips, and I see "this 3v1 fight, this giant dragon, this boss that summons multiple helpers, the worst thing you can do is summon the NPCs for help because that just inflates their HP." Sure, that's true, but when a boss can more or less one-shot you or seriously damage you with one hit, imo the more distractions the better when it comes to reducing said HP, wherever it's at, *especially* when there's more than one enemy (who in DS2 have weird hit boxes, and crazy range, and sometimes their weapons hit you through things from across the room, etc.). And especially when so many of the fights, summons or no, hinge on RNG. Playing offline already imo makes things harder - no hints on the ground, no helpers - so not taking advantage of built-in mechanics designed to make up for that seems weird.

File Slumbering Dragon under another DLC that doesn't really seem worth the effort, especially with the broken weapon mechanic built into it. Started the Snowy Realm DLC and ... it's pretty snowy.

I'm liking the snow realm so far. In fact, I'm very proud of the fact that I beat the sabertooth tiger boss on my first try, solo, which is ... not something I usually do. I was about to turn off the game and I thought, eh, should I see what I'm up against? So I just jumped in with no summons and did it (with reduced health, no less). Maybe I got lucky? Fortunately I had made the cat visible first, though I'm sure there are nuts out there that can beat it invisible with a broken dagger in their underwear.

Those ice porcupines may be the most annoying and deadly enemies in any of these games.

On the other hand, the fake white phantom that pretends to be your friend is actually a rare point of levity in these games.

I guess even these DLCs are in a sense unbalanced, because after an entire game's worth of pretty easy bosses, it's like they went too far the other direction and made all the bosses in the DLC hard as hell. Three on one fight! Giant dragon with weapon degradation! Burnt Ivory King and his minions! Double tigers after a shitty slog of a path! Sir Alonne and the Fume Knight! All I can say is: dag. I like the levels themselves, though, fun and challenging, though like the rest of this game they seem to favor range and/or magic attacks, or at least they often seem to penalize melee builds. But the bosses? Ugh. Might just skip and move on to a different game.

Just started this tonight after a couple of previous false starts. It's good so far! Enjoying how many NPCs there are to talk to. Also love the fact there seem to be loads of soapstones etc for a ten year old game

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

I saw a video last night, I kinda wanna play it

I still have the central hub music implanted in my memory, it's like an Eno ambient piece

Fgti play it, we can swap notes. I pretty much spent lady night doing the tutorial and the hub, so not really started the game proper.

I was so glad to emerge from the tutorial area into daylight: shades of Elden Ring there. There are a few commonalities with Eternal Ring on this one too!

My local pub, they like to run From playthroughs on the TVs there. The other night they were running DS2 and I was transfixed, seeing a highly familiar interface but completely unfamiliar environments. Idk. I hated the first six hours I played of it, and every time I read about "the bosses" they sound terrible! Maybe some day I'll play it.

I've decided I'm going to stick with it for now.

I generally trust the Bonfireside Chat guys on things like this (even if I don't always agree with them), and they really like DS2 despite having certain misgivings about DS3 (too much unnecessary fan service that doesn't make sense etc).

My local pub, they like to run From playthroughs on the TVs there

The perfect bar doesn't exi--

Seriously, that rules.

I think it would be enjoyable to replay this with the benefit of hindsight, instead of being all excited about The Sequel to Dark Souls.

Things I remember - it feels better after you level adaptability and get a normal amount of i-frames for your roll (still can't believe there was a stat for this), parry timing is super weird, and it was fun to fight the Pursuer and the chariot boss (similar to the chariots in the Hero's Graves in Elden Ring, except you can actually dodge under the spiky axles).

There were a lot of interesting & wacky mechanics, like being able to respawn a boss and put an individual area into a higher NG cycle by using an item.

DS2's nature as a miserable wrong-feeling off-brand janky imitation is part of its strange appeal imo

Fuck the DLC tho

I was thinking today about how the Souls series is a key example of "not a bug but a feature", or rather "leaning into the jankiness and making it a key part of the game".

e.g. the way even as late on as Elden Ring the NPCs stand stock-still like mannequins with very little body or facial movement even when they're speaking is by now part of the whole experience. They could easily have gone full Horizon Forbidden West, but you can tell they kidn of went "nope, people would hate that"

I appreciate that they don't spend their dev time & resources on stupid bullshit like moving mouths.

The generally excellent voice casting/direction/performances are sort of the non-jank glue that hold that aspect of it all together, can't imagine it'd work as well if it was like Steve Blum or whoever being all [bafflingly inappropriate intonation for the line] "I'VE GAHT TO USE MY HEAD AND THINK"

Peter Serafinowicz did some voice work on DS2 iirc

The little bit I played of Lords of the Fallen (still meaning to give it another chance) reaaallly made me appreciate how great the voice acting is in From games.

I think all these quirky From traits that we know and love really show how much time and resources other studios spend/waste on things like cut scenes and facial animations.

My impression of this game so far is that it's really not that far the first game, save for a few obvious differences. The Way people talk about it, you'd think it would be like Super Mario 2 in that it's a totally different game, but no not really

to me it feels like a whole game with the finish of Lost Izalith, though there are undoubtedly some memorable things about it

When you mean the "finish", do you mean the graphics or more the level design?

a bit of both I suppose, it lacks the puzzle-box design of DS1 and the graphics and design seem a bit muddy and dull, but of course it is a game that is ten years old, it wouldn't be fair to judge it by the standard of Elden Ring

No, it wouldn't. I didn't play DS1 at the time; I went back to it after playing Bloodborne, Elden Ring and Demon's Souls.

This is going to sound sacrilegious, but while there's a lot to like about it, it's the one i love least out of all those. Perhaps that's just down to the graphics: there's a grubby patina all over it that I don't really like. I also think, of all the games, it's really unforgiving and obfuscated in what you're meant to be doing and how to do it. It feels egregiously cruel in ways the other games don't for some reason

you mean DS1 right? I think DS2 has a similar but if anything more muddy graphical style, and some of the same "what next?" issues. There's one particularly egregious example of this that springs to mind in DS2.