The Monkees: Classic or Dud?

I'm not exactly sure how the music rights worked out, because the Screen Gems/Colpix music library was spun away from RCA and got rebranded as part of Bell Records, which became part of Arista, who did the initial mainstream '80s Monkees reissues and maybe Pool It?

Thanks. Do you have the older edition of that book, or the new supersized version?

I had the older one, which I got as remainder.

Cool, because now that one seems to be fodder for my $900 Grandmothers thread.

I remember me or a roommate having The Monkees Greatest Hits or whatever on Arista and not digging “Shades of Gray” or “Listen to the Band” which to me both sounded out of place, whereas now “Shades of Gray” sounds great to me in context on Headquarters. I don’t know what magic Rhino had to do to get all the rights squared away but it certainly is some kind of Lord’s Work for the poor listener. On a related note, I just looked at a record earlier today on 45cat that was originally on Red Bird I think, and saw that the publishing was Trio, which I happen know was Leiber and Stoller, but they had pieces lots of different publishing companies, so many so that I think once Jerry said “only Mike can keep track of it.”

Oh, it was "Chapel of Love" I was looking at, or, more exactly it's B-side, "Ain't That Nice," which was not written by them, but Earl King. There was another time I was looking at the sheet music for some standard, can't recall which right now, and I could see three or four publishing companies on there, most of which I associated with them, so I assume it was one of their latter-day acquisitions.

To bring it back to The Monkees: although it was writen by Leiber and Stoller, "D.W. Washburn" was published by Screen Gems I see, but the B-side of the later, better Coasters version is published by Trio as expected.

"Shades of Gray" is one my favourite Monkees' songs. As is "Listen to the Band".

I know, I know. I am one of those old, shallow Monkees fans who really only liked the most obvious bubblegum and garage numbers and The Stone Poneys, "Different Drum," only just now having my eleventh hour Come to Papa Nez moment. FP me if you like.

I guess I am trying to say that they were ill-served by that hits collection I had, which had a somewhat similar effect as The Beatles Red & Blue collections, although obviously a lot shorter. Even if the songs on it were good there was something off about the sequencing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monkees_Greatest_Hits

I don't remember the regular albums being available at the time, it's not like when I bought my used The Notorious Byrd Brothers there were copies on display or even in the racks of Headquarters and Pisces, Aquarius, Capricorn & Jones Ltd..

But just noticed More Greatest Hits of The Monkees, which looks really good. Maybe if I had come across a copy of that back in the day, things would have been different.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/More_Greatest_Hits_of_The_Monkees

^^Killer tracklisting.

Rhino eventually handled the vinyl reissues of the regular albums in the mid-'80s; according to the later CD liners, their edition of Changes was only charting version, as the O.G. version tanked.

Prior to that, it seems like the earlier albums wouldn't have been a high priority to reissue, as they had to be pretty easy to find used. The earlier Rhino releases from the catalogue were strictly rarities/unreleased comps.

So you are saying I could have bought those records, I just wasn’t looking for them and they weren’t being presented to me. I guess I was also aware of the eventual Rhino reissues and probably of the MTV screenings but nothing and no one was compelling me to buy them. How many degrees of separation was I from The Monkees revival I wonder. Probably only two. No doubt someone I couldn’t keep up with like an April March was into them but I was a bit behind the curve as with Serge Gainsbourg etc.

Come to think of it at some point I bought my own copy of Then & Now to replace my roommates Arista album, but I still didn't quite get deep into it. The track list looks mostly all right to me now with a few problems, but still I never got the message that their albums were actually good. I wonder if The Dictionary of Obscure Sorrows has a name for this.

I was lucky, I heard "Valleri" in like 1986 and never looked back, always liked them and had a 100-minute mixtape from a friend that I listened to a lot

So you are saying I could have bought those records, I just wasn’t looking for them and they weren’t being presented to me.

No. If anything I was musing on why that music had seemingly been consigned to the scrap bin of history, AKA cheapie bins, thrift stores, Goodwill etc. before Rhino stepped in and treated the catalogue with respect and scholarship.

Okay, thanks. I never had the full-on crate-digger dumpster diver instinct, so I would tend to go to the, not necessarily higher end but at least somewhat curated used record stores, where in my experience that stuff was nowhere to be found.

I imagine Monkees lps were the Hootie CDs of their day.

Do you think in a Rhino-less they would have comeback just not at the same level, or would they be consigned to limbo à la Dave Clark?

bit of an unfair comparison imo, Dave Clark got screwed by their publishers so there were never any reissues at all iirc?

I think it was Dave Clark himself who caused a lot of his own problems by not playing nice with reissuers.

ah ok, wasn't totally sure of the specifics there

Anyway, I was partly trolling, mostly thinking out loud. To answer my own question, I’d say a lot of it might have happened the same way, played out the same way, but maybe on a somewhat slightly smaller scale, and there might have been some lingering bitter aftertaste without had not Rhino acquired the rights and done right by them with the deluxe treatment.

Seems to me most acts eventually escape the cut-out bin somehow, with the exception of, say, Vikki Carr: POX.

The more I think about this, it was inevitable.

I agree. '60s nostalgia was really blowing up, their songs were popping up in After Hours and The Wonder Years, CDs were starting to happen...

Watched this Tork on Letterman in '82 video this morning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfSuwTGpV5Q

In the main interview (starting around 11 minutes in) Peter mentions that the first four albums had blown up again in Japan, which of course leads to the reunion question.

Cool, thanks. He does a stumble entrance, nice.

This interview is good! Think the band was
playing "One Nation Under a Groove" during one of the breaks.

Wonder how many songs Micky sounds like Grace Slick on. "Daily Nightly" and "Zor and Zam" for sure.

As We Go Along is another. Maybe my fave monkees song.

Good one!

Is Bobby Hart's book, Psychedelic Bubblegum any good? I see mixed reviews online.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eaWNN27mU0

I just looked at my Red Rolling Stone guide. Dave Marsh gives four stars and a strong review to the greatest hits collection that was available at the time. Which kind of proves that all the albums were out of print, I think. Also no mention of them on Greil Marcus's Treasure Island. So yeah, they had some respect as a singles going steady band at the time at least.

Xgau gives some grudging nods of approval but was not quite convinced:
https://www.robertchristgau.com/xg/bk-aow/columns.php
https://www.robertchristgau.com/xg/bk-aow/column2.php

Marcus doesn't really strike me as being someone who'd be pro-Monkees.

Paul Williams HATED them. I had the Crawdaddy coffee table anthology with all the 'What Goes On' news columns reprinted in toto; frequently there'd be sections within said columns that read like "Dylan said to be in studio...possibly recording for a new label/Bobby Hebb new single due next week/WHOLE PARAGRAPH ON WHY THE MONKEES SUCK & WILL HAVE NO LASTING INFLUENCE ON ROCK HISTORY/Jefferson Airplane set to perform at Fillmore East in February"

Heh, maybe he especially hated tham because of the other Paul Williams.

https://greilmarcus.net/ask-greil-2019/

it's kinda wild to think of paul williams (the critic) actually hating something. i read a couple of his books a long time ago and my lasting impression was that i'd never encountered a critic so enthusiastic about everything he was writing about. which is quite a feat when you're writing about, like, 80s bob dylan!

The Monkees: Classic or Dead?

This river scene is getting old
I’m hungry, sleepy, wet and cold

https://monkees.coolcherrycream.com/articles/1968/02/hullabaloo/how-a-record-is-made

The grass is always greener
Growing on the other side

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/michael-nesmith-monkees-last-interview-final-tour-micky-dolenz-1278666/amp/

Just saw that and came to post. Good stuff.

Yesterday was the birthday of Aquarius, I mean Norman MailerPeter Tork.

And today is the anniversary of the day Chip Douglas arranged "Happy Together" for The Turtles.

As We Go Along is such a beaut. Mickey slays on this. I’m surprised there aren’t more covers of this

Take the sound collages out and Head may well be the best EP of all time.

otm (on the monkees)

Keep seeing reminders that it's Micky's birthday today.

Mickey along with Coco and some others rehearsing "Valleri" in a tiny cruise ship room: https://www.facebook.com/watch?v=499444991737376