HBO's Succession - Season 2 and Beyond

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yeah, i agree with Jordan that it has vastly improved. it finally hooked me this season

Heez, Monday, 13 December 2021 19:15 (two years ago) link

used to confuse it with Billions

Heez, Monday, 13 December 2021 19:16 (two years ago) link

some scintillating writing... itt

lag∞n, Monday, 13 December 2021 19:25 (two years ago) link

it would be cool if stewie in succession was stewie from family guy

Bongo Jongus, Monday, 13 December 2021 19:30 (two years ago) link

Oh man a Family Guy fan hates Succession, I'm crushed.

a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 13 December 2021 19:36 (two years ago) link

the line was "let's see if Hans Christian Anderfuck is just telling us fairy tales" or somesuch which is more foregiveable

When Young Sheldon began to rap (forksclovetofu), Monday, 13 December 2021 20:03 (two years ago) link

Yeah I liked that one, it was the "Wizard of Fuck" one later that had me rolling my eyes.

a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 13 December 2021 20:10 (two years ago) link

I like it when the zings are worse and malapropisms abound

these people are just not as clever as they want you to think they are

mh, Monday, 13 December 2021 20:15 (two years ago) link

good point actually

Guayaquil (eephus!), Monday, 13 December 2021 20:22 (two years ago) link

I think they kept playing Kendall saying “going nut-nut” in the recaps just to irritate me

mh, Monday, 13 December 2021 20:24 (two years ago) link

Exactly jaymc, ty. That got a little old in Veep, but it was almost a nice throwback here.

change display name (Jordan), Monday, 13 December 2021 20:26 (two years ago) link

I like it when the zings are worse and malapropisms abound

these people are just not as clever as they want you to think they are

― mh, Monday, December 13, 2021 3:15 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Funny how we lower the bar for mainstream entertainment, esp when it comes to internet lingo. "Some guy with an undercut just called me a soyboy" sounds au courant on a tv show but would sound unbearably passe/cringe on here or twitter (or anywhere on the web)

weekend at brony's (rip van wanko), Monday, 13 December 2021 22:35 (two years ago) link

Ah this episode!

Most Peep-Showy lines of the week - "you're not a killer - at worst, you're an irresponsibler"
"Why do YOU get to do an intervention on ME?"

Kerry's hair is sooo shiny - which incidentally can be a result of prenatal vitamins...

kinder, Monday, 13 December 2021 22:41 (two years ago) link

Bongo Jongus please let us know what some well-written tv shows are

akm, Monday, 13 December 2021 22:52 (two years ago) link

yeah, let's see if Bongo Jongfuck is just playing us Santana's Supernatural

accordion folder full of Zoobooks (Sufjan Grafton), Monday, 13 December 2021 23:03 (two years ago) link

Succession thread for people who don't want to buy New York Mag subscriptions. Lots of great actor insight here.

https://www.vulture.com/2021/12/succession-season-three-finale-interviews.html

In a 16th-century Tuscan villa, a New York media family has its Red Wedding. Patriarch Logan Roy (Brian Cox) has just told his children that he’s beat them. Dad sold the family firm, Waystar Royco, and cut them out. But why, the kids moan. “Because it works,” he growls.

We’re on location in Montalcino, and it’s the second-to-last day of Succession’s two-week-long summer shoot. By the time the kids get to Logan’s villa, it’s around midnight, but filming takes place during the day; the afternoon’s sunlight is shooed away by blackout curtains. Shiv (Sarah Snook) has rallied her brothers to go to their dad’s and try to talk him out of the deal. If he resists, they have a scheme of their own: Logan needs their shares for the sale to go through, and they’ll block it when asked. “You need a supermajority,” Shiv says, “and we will kill it.” In a living room turned war room, Logan stamps amid the oversize furniture, roaring his displeasure, before he reveals he’s one-upped them. His deputies — Frank (Peter Friedman), Karl (David Rasche), and Gerri (J. Smith Cameron) — flank him. Their faces are blank in some takes and wickedly satisfied in others. When director Mark Mylod calls “Cut,” it’s as if both sides — wannabe heirs apparent versus their boomer victors — retreat to their corners of the ring. Snook stifles her Shiv sobs. Jeremy Strong paces, occasionally retreating to the next room, a bedroom with a mausoleum feel where video village is cramped next to a queen-size bed. They run the scene again and again, getting every actor’s coverage. “Can you put as much warmth into that as you possibly can?” Mylod asks Cox, directing the pivotal moment when Logan pats Tom (Matthew Macfadyen) proudly on the shoulder for tipping him off to his kids’ plan. “Sure,” Cox says. “Have you got a candle?”

The scene reshapes Succession as we’ve known it. The show’s writers wanted an ending that united the kids but kept their sharp elbows intact; the final moments are damning, but at least they’re facing it together. “The other seasons had, at their end, a two-person dynamic, which is Kendall and his father,” executive producer Lucy Prebble tells me. “We talked very early about this idea of, ‘Well, if the kids could only come together in some way, they would actually have a shot at changing things.’ The tragedy was they could never do that. Family dynamics were always pushing people against each other.”

For Kendall (Strong), it’s a weighty character beat: He’s not so much locking horns with Logan in this finale as he is locking arms with his siblings. “Rather than driving the thing, which is what I’ve always done, I am there to be a handmaid to them,” Strong says. Earlier in the episode, he told his siblings about his seasons-long secret: that he’d left the waiter to drown at Shiv’s wedding. “I don’t know if healing is the right word, but it’s certainly a relief to find myself in the car with Shiv and Roman and not have animosity. I’ve been shouldering all the weight myself, and getting to distribute that weight and carry that together feels really good.”

At the season’s start, Shiv and Roman rejected Kendall’s offer to team up. By dusk at their mother’s third wedding, it seems like the only way they can survive: Logan has sidelined Shiv; an ill-timed, mistakenly sent dick pic thwarts all of Roman’s progress. Trying to wrest control from the outside hasn’t worked for Kendall, either. Meanwhile, Logan has been angling to make a major move. His back has been against the wall for two seasons now: He was a bull in the gilded Pierce family’s china shop; he barely survived the shareholder meeting. When the Elon Musk–y Lukas Matsson (Alexander Skarsgård) suggests a sale — Waystar to GoJo with a board that would satisfy Logan — the Roy patriarch doesn’t retreat into his usual defensive crouch. It’s a good deal that lets the firm continue. Logan pitches the sale to his kids both as a payout and as freeing them to play in a bigger sandbox: “This is an opportunity for you kids to get an education in real life,” he suggests. He resents the fact that they’ve never had to work that hard. “They only did a half-hour flight instead of 17 hours on a boat, you know?” Cox tells me. “When you look at the Roy children, you see how damaged they are. But it’s damage by getting too much, by having too much. It’s like a gorge, like overeating and making yourself sick.” The actor suggests that, by the end, Logan is tired of his children not being savvy operators or able sparring partners. He promises Roman that Matsson likes him enough to keep him around, but it’s unclear if that’s a promise or a play. “They don’t get the fact that this is a game and you’ve got to be good at it. You gotta be committed and you gotta play it, but it’s a game.” He sells them out because they’re not up to playing.

But maybe that’s a generous read. “As we’ve seen with other characters in national life in the U.S. and the U.K., one of the powers of pathological people is they believe it when they lie,” says show creator Jesse Armstrong, reflecting on Logan. “If they’re really good at it, they seem to have been able to excise the part of themselves that is questioning, or that feels like you or I would be troubled by, by being untruthful. If you can cut that cord, it’s a slightly terrifying superpower, isn’t it?”

When confronted, Logan presents the sale as an opportunity that benefits them all. Shiv and Kendall see through that proposal as one of their dad’s lies — if it’s as cushy as he makes it sound, why all the secret maneuvering? “We all want to go up against dad because dad’s the one in power,” Snook tells me. “But we also, by the end of that scene, realize more explicitly how corrupt and damaged he is.” Roman, who hemmed and hawed en route to Logan’s villa, almost gives in to his father in the room. “Roman still holds on to a sense of family that the others might’ve let go of,” Culkin says. “He still thinks Dad cares. He still believes we’re all gonna get together, have Thanksgivings — it’s going to be fine, and Dad’s going to pass the company to one of us. And this kind of competitive thing, although it gets really real, is still fun and games.”

And it’s Roman Logan appeals to personally. Shiv, who leads the siblings’ charge, feels a pang of envy that their dad has kept her brother closer all season and moves to sweet-talk him in the room. “The episode is such a dynamic shift: The siblings are united, but there’s a risk that Roman could fold,” Snook says. “Shiv feels a shade of jealousy that he gets the attention of Dad and he gets picked as the person who would have the grit and the determination.”

Meanwhile, their mother, Caroline Collingwood (Harriet Walter), has taken a break from her wedding festivities to redirect her shares to Logan, giving him a supermajority. Dad brings Mom into the room via speakerphone. “We just walked in on Mom and Dad fucking us,” Shiv groans. Later, Snook tells me the scene gave her a new read on Shiv’s moment with her mother from the penultimate episode. “There’s a realization that the reason we went with Dad in the first place in the divorce was not because he loved us more when we were kids,” she says. “It was because he could win by taking his kids away from his ex-wife. We, again, were just a pawn in that circumstance. Seeing how easily he was able to reunite with Caroline to go against us, it’s like, ‘Oh, none of this means anything.’ There’s not a shadow of, ‘Dad must’ve really wanted us if he fought that hard for us.’ It was about winning. It was about Caroline losing.”

Succession doesn’t do red herrings or hide the ball. “A good rule of thumb for us is: Why isn’t this story meeting working? Oh, it’s because we’re trying to do a story where we’ve been holding some information from the audience and that’s not a good shape for us,” Armstrong explains. Caroline has sided with Logan before — even already during her wedding weekend. Tom popping up at the last second to receive an appreciative pat from Logan is earned in a season where Tom grew closer to Logan. But it’s also a surprise, and it lands on Shiv just as it lands on the audience. The stakes are higher now: A scene that was, a moment earlier, the kids versus their dad is now the kids versus lovers like Tom and Gerri, too. “As the season progresses, he’s slowly feeling less connected to Siobhan,” says Macfadyen, describing Tom’s season-long arc. “Because they always had a plan as to how they would progress up the pole of Waystar — maybe she would be the boss and he would be head of whatever it was but involved. It was always the two of them. And he feels that’s slightly changing. There’s a lack of trust there. There’s an awful, growing, gnawing feeling that he’s not in control at all, that she’s got a different agenda. Subconsciously, he knows that more than he lets on.” As he’s scheming, Tom brings Greg (Nicholas Braun), his real partner on the show, in on his plan. “It feels like there’s a nice way for Greg to be closer to some version of a leader,” Braun says. “It’s like a chess move that’s bringing Tom and Greg to a higher place. Season four is the siblings versus everyone. Now I’m against my friend Kendall and over with Logan. Maybe that is going to be a very exciting place for Greg.”

When I watched them film the episode’s final scene, they tried the last moment a few different ways: one where Shiv doesn’t catch that Tom-Logan moment and another where only Kendall clocks it. In the one that aired, Shiv sees it. When we talked in the summer, Snook wasn’t sure what the ultimate selection would be, but she had hopes for a cliffhanger. “Part of me, as an actor, is always wondering what is more interesting to the audience to see, not just what we’re going through in the character,” she told me. “At the end of an episode, having something that narratively projects into the next season sets it up quite nicely. If Shiv knows, but her brothers don’t, and Tom doesn’t know that Shiv knows — there’s a lot of potential there.”

When Young Sheldon began to rap (forksclovetofu), Monday, 13 December 2021 23:36 (two years ago) link

the act of it by itself is a betrayal of shiv and a sign of allegiance to logan, but the roy kids are not dumb, i hope in hindsight theyre more directly mad @ their mom; tom’s move is at base just the weasel-y seeing the way the wind is blowing opportunism, not that far from gerri, frank, etc

johnny crunch, Tuesday, 14 December 2021 01:08 (two years ago) link

i thought sarah snook really nailed shiv's reaction when she put it together. looked completely gutted but there was a sense of knowing that she deserved it

Heez, Tuesday, 14 December 2021 01:23 (two years ago) link

yeah snook's acting in that whole scene was great, when she's fully crying and then blip, game face on. incredible

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 14 December 2021 01:39 (two years ago) link

You already see her recalculating and recalibrating, especially the realization that now she actually needs Tom.

Performances by the sibling trio were good all season, but they were really great in the last episode.

i love it when the three of them are together, even when it’s bad it’s always so great

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 14 December 2021 02:53 (two years ago) link

sounds au courant on a tv show but would sound unbearably passe/cringe on here or twitter (or anywhere on the web)

this isn’t the fault of a writer, when they know this moves fast. it sounds absolutely like the lingo of someone who thinks they’re online but isn’t, or someone who has online trends mediated through an assistant. kendall (and these other characters) have never been on the ephemeral zeitgeist, it’s all extremely mediated. ken’s probably the poster child for “saw the slogan, never looked into it” because he’s got that weird lingo that’s internal to a group of associates, not quite friends, who riff on things poorly.

extremely awkward, these people have never been part of an in-group even at rich kid boarding school. just dying at kendall’s theme for his birthday party, “ready to die” and with 40s, mini wu-tang (I barely missed seeing mini-kiss at an extremely corporate conference once), just not even cringe but sub-cringe

mh, Tuesday, 14 December 2021 04:04 (two years ago) link

"We began the casting process. [...] I remember looking at kids. I was very excited to realize that, and then the great [Succession creator] Jesse Armstrong [said] it was one of those things to pull back from, to realize that just saying it and alluding to them was probably funnier."

When Young Sheldon began to rap (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 14 December 2021 04:06 (two years ago) link

lol yes

mh, Tuesday, 14 December 2021 04:07 (two years ago) link

"I've killed a kid..." - Roman

nashwan, Tuesday, 14 December 2021 09:43 (two years ago) link

tom season 4 episode 1 #succession pic.twitter.com/3D74IMxL7s

— Chad Pemberton (@chadpemberton) December 13, 2021

groovypanda, Tuesday, 14 December 2021 11:17 (two years ago) link

I like it when the zings are worse and malapropisms abound

these people are just not as clever as they want you to think they are

On the last Succession podcast, Jesse Armstrong says something along the lines of how a lot of the jokes and comebacks and zingers are deliberately a bit lame and shit, because this isn't an out and out comedy and these aren't comedians. They're supposed to talk how real people would talk.

nate woolls, Tuesday, 14 December 2021 19:28 (two years ago) link

real billionaires

change display name (Jordan), Tuesday, 14 December 2021 19:49 (two years ago) link

i mean Logan especially jokes like a person whos been *treated* like he’s the funny person in the room… by ppl afraid of not laughing

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 14 December 2021 20:34 (two years ago) link

xxp That is such a cop out.

DJI, Tuesday, 14 December 2021 20:34 (two years ago) link

it's true. don't care if Armstrong isn't genuenly funny, it would be extremely off-putting and weird if the ghuouls in this show had a good sense of humour.

gospodin simmel, Tuesday, 14 December 2021 21:11 (two years ago) link

sorry for that mess.

edited version: it's true. don't care if Armstrong isn't genuinely funny, it would be extremely off-putting and weird if the ghouls in this show had a good sense of humour.

gospodin simmel, Tuesday, 14 December 2021 21:13 (two years ago) link

they get some good hits in, and fire off a lot of misses too, roman is often found sighing after bad attempt, logan has many genuinely nice turns of phrase, mostly when hes mad

lag∞n, Tuesday, 14 December 2021 21:15 (two years ago) link

i thought it was fairly clear e.g. "wizard of fuck" isn't supposed to be the most cuttingest of wits. Thought the same about cunt of monte cristo. Logan doesn't really do humour. I guess saying
"ooh we need a supermajority" in a mocking voice fits in there.

kinder, Tuesday, 14 December 2021 21:18 (two years ago) link

like in Peep Show when Mark wants to call someone a jizzcock then over-analyses why that's a shit insult.

kinder, Tuesday, 14 December 2021 21:20 (two years ago) link

Tom gets the best lines.

DJI, Tuesday, 14 December 2021 21:20 (two years ago) link

Yeah, you are meant to be laughing *at* them, not *with* them.

Chewshabadoo, Wednesday, 15 December 2021 09:31 (two years ago) link

i thought it was fairly clear e.g. "wizard of fuck" isn't supposed to be the most cuttingest of wits. Thought the same about cunt of monte cristo. Logan doesn't really do humour. I guess saying
"ooh we need a supermajority" in a mocking voice fits in there.


OTM. It seemed clearly the kind of clunky thing you spit out in anger, not sure why ppl are RMDE about it upthread like it’s bad writing.

circa1916, Wednesday, 15 December 2021 13:45 (two years ago) link

ok the cunt of monte cristo is actually funny tho

lag∞n, Wednesday, 15 December 2021 14:00 (two years ago) link

Did not realize that Greg and Justin Theroux own a Lower East Side bar:
https://instagram.com/raysbarnyc

... (Eazy), Wednesday, 15 December 2021 15:36 (two years ago) link

nero and scopus, together forever

grove street (party) direction (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 15 December 2021 15:43 (two years ago) link

God that scopus is the bleakest shit in a bleak show

a (waterface), Wednesday, 15 December 2021 15:44 (two years ago) link

it's funny how tom is just the biggest fucking weirdo freak but next to the sibs, he's a regular joe

grove street (party) direction (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 15 December 2021 15:52 (two years ago) link

lol my nephew bartended at that place for a minute

(•̪●) (carne asada), Wednesday, 15 December 2021 15:53 (two years ago) link

JCO throwing bows for no reason

hmm. you know this is concocted by writers, don't you?
"she" isn't thinking anything, she is following a script. https://t.co/KXbKds8Bas

— Joyce Carol Oates (@JoyceCarolOates) December 14, 2021

When Young Sheldon began to rap (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 15 December 2021 19:51 (two years ago) link

bad tweet imo

Enjoy the brighter sounds of Analog on CD (stevie), Wednesday, 15 December 2021 20:12 (two years ago) link

shes right tho i looked into it and apparently there is something called a script which i guess has the words from the show written down on it amongst other things

lag∞n, Wednesday, 15 December 2021 20:15 (two years ago) link

is she trying to drag people for wondering what going through a show characters head?

(•̪●) (carne asada), Wednesday, 15 December 2021 20:27 (two years ago) link

JCO is just an agent of chaos, you never know what insane thing she is going to say, she's right about 75% of the time and then just weird the other 25%.

Back to the Strong profile in the New Yorker: I feel like I read a different article than everyone else who freaked out about it. At no point did he come across as abusive or even an asshole to me. Intense and into his job? Sure. People all exasperated that he asked for a pillar to sit on for that breakdown scene, but then didn't use it...uh, ok? So fucking what?

akm, Wednesday, 15 December 2021 23:24 (two years ago) link


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