Dark Souls 2: YOU DIED HARDER

they definitely existed in DS1, they work as pvp invasion zone delimiters

Weird, I don't remember them at all. Wait, now that I think of it I do remember them a few times, but usually right after a boss, not just randomly found within a single zone, which was the case in Earthen Peak. All it lead to was an isolated bonfire.

I remember those DS2 fog walls, they're weird. In the other games you generally only see non-boss fog walls when doing multiplayer.

DS2 is definitely the difficult sophomore album where they were reacting against the one before. I think they were trying to be different, but also at time there was so much conversation about the supposed difficulty of Dark Souls. Maybe they were leaning into it and trying to up the ante so you couldn't just run past enemies, heal super quickly, enter a fog wall without getting backstabbed, etc? All things that they've since backtracked on.

There might be something to that. I really can't remember, but is this the only From game that gives you a trophy for dying the first time? It definitely leans into, um, killing you. Which is irritating, because humanity (at the start) is relatively limited. Which means if you have 20 humanity stored up, that's only 20 times you can restore humanity, which is a pretty modest number considering how often you (I) die, which in turn dissuades you from reversing your hollowing, so ... why bother?

In DS1, the reasons for reverse hollowing were 1. kindle bonfires, 2. fun multiplayer, 3. better item drop rates (I think?)

I think the first winning build I ran was using Quelaag's Furysword, a chaos weapon (scales with soft humanity). I was mistakenly under the impression that you had to be unhollowed to get the chaos buff, and was always unhollowed as a result. Nope! You can just be a random undead carrying around 10 humanity and it is fine

I tried Bloodborne for the first time last night and was taken aback by the mood of it, all top hats and tramp stamps

In DS2, every time you die you lose a sliver of your max health, a condition which can only be fixed by reversing your hollowing. (Also, unlike the other installments, iirc, reversing your hollowing here doesn't even *replenish* your health.) So in addition to needing to be human to summon NPCs, if you don't occasionally reverse your hollowing you're at an increasingly serious HP disadvantage. Which means the more you die, the harder the game becomes, which is pretty unfair and stupid, because it is already hard, that's why you've died a lot.

Lol yeah, Bloodborne definitely has a steampunk LARPer vibe.

It's interesting that in Elden Ring they seem to have removed any additional drawbacks or incentives around 'hollowing' + multiplayer. It's a straight-up proposition of "you want to summon help, then you open yourself up to invasions." No change in hp or anything as far as we know.

I don't really play video games but I got through ds1 recently and am pretty far through ds3. I guess when I started playing ds1 it was near the 10 year anniversary so tons of people were playing the game again. it took me so long to realize what the blood stains were and the ghost looking figures running around everywhere. Felt like I stumbled upon a singular video game playing experience, I mean yeah, the vibe of ds1 itself is like nothing else, but there was also this huge influx of life in the game. Glad I could co-op most of the bosses and get killed over and over again by invaders

Yeah I enjoyed that about DS1 myself on my most recent playthrough. I say “playthrough” but I haven’t beat Kalameet or Gwyn just yet and don’t know if I will.

I took down Artorias single-handedly and skillfully, then gave myself a break w Manus and summoned two jolly buddies and a dog and it was an easy 90 seconds

I waited around for summon help for Kalameet and none arrived. Offered help and none was taken— can you help a buddy on a boss you haven’t beaten? maybe not. I only beat Kalameet once before and I remember it was hellish

You can, for sure.

Kalameet and Manus took me foreverrr on my first playthrough, very memorable though. Much much easier when I went through again on the remastered version.

I've never played online, but I want to say I didn't always summon NPC help in any of these games, just sometimes (depending on whether or not it was worth the inflated enemy HP). DS2, I'm summoning them every chance I can get, not least because there are so many bosses and so much bullshit everywhere.

I hadn’t done PvP until this month and I loved it.

I pumped all my early souls into a pyro flame that was way overpowered for my soul level. Then I’d invade and do a Fire Tempest (which worked 1 in 10 times). If they lived I’d rush in the confusion and batter them (which worked 1 in 10 times). If they still survived I’d blocky blocky block block until they got a false sense of security/weariness and then surprise them with a one-hit shield-ignoring Combustion (which worked 1 in 10 times).

I got indicted a lot

And I died 7 out of 10 times

Oh also I dressed great. Antiquated shirt plus knight leggings? I looked great

That's always the most important part 100%

I'm at Iron Keep now, which further underscores how this From game, more than any of the others, really emphasizes the need for ranged weapons, not least because running through/past shit is no longer an option.

Heh, on the other hand, cheesing out this huge number of knights with my bow is both satisfying and pretty easy, especially since they're pushovers in combat, too. The weird downside I've found is that by the time I make it to the fog gate I've accumulated a *ton* of souls, so don't feel like entering it to battle whatever is behind it (Fire Demon?) and risk losing it all. So I backtrack and spend the souls to level up, then repeat. Eventually I'll just have to bit the bullet and risk losing a bunch of souls to the boss.

Smelter Demon down. I must admit I've been doing most of the bosses with NPC summons, but to be honest, in other From games said NPCs have been hit or miss in terms of effectiveness, but in this one they've been helping me absolutely destroy the bosses.

Finished up Iron Keep/Iron King (who was stupid; died once falling off the platform). While this is absolutely the worst and jankiest game in the series, I am having a lot of fun just giving in to the ridiculous mechanics of it. Iron Keep, for example, there's a turtle guy way the fuck away, but if you shoot him with an arrow he will steadily make his way all the way across the big arena to where you are. Unless you time it right and lower him on the platform to his death first. Either way, the unerring homing powers of the enemies might work to your disadvantage when it comes to outrunning them, but in terms of kiting, they slowly but surely make their way right to where you are. Which is to say, their doom. Unless they fall off a ledge or something first. Takes time to do shit like this, but when they're scattering easily aggroed enemies all over the place, some with magic arrows that curve toward you, it's better to give in and embrace the cheese.

Come to think of it, you know what's weird? The Pursuer, despite his name, might be the only enemy that *doesn't* pursue you! It just pops up, and you either fight him or you don't and then he vanishes again. This would be a different game (and a bigger PIA) if he followed you until you killed him.

Ah, my dark Christmas present arrived early today, I have the whole trilogy now

I am very seduced by Bloodborne though and am excited to come back to Dark Souls 2 in a couple weeks all shieldless, perhaps

I don't use a shield, I've never been that good at parrying except when absolutely necessary. I'm more a club them over the head kind of player.

I extremely was a DS1 shield user and those days are past, seemingly

I played about ten minutes of DS2 and haven’t felt so appalled at the whiffing of a sequel since.. uh Ultima 8 maybe

Oh, it's a total whiff, but I'm enjoying it in a very low stakes way.

Agreed, but the beginning is especially bad because rolling doesn't even work properly until you level adaptability.

DS3 is the true sequel imo.

Considering how leaps and bounds is Bloodborne I am inclined to finish it and move on to DS3

I am kinda amazed about what DS2 is like on first impression tbh

DS3 is great, I played that before Bloodborne.

So much that's wrong with Dark Souls 2 feels kind of like weird self-owns. Like, we know what works, but just for shits and giggles let's try doing something different and stupid and annoying, just to see what happens. Oh, no one liked that? Fine, let's sort of remake the game and put out a new edition, but still not fix everything, maybe people will like that better. No? Well, can't win them all, this stuff is hard.

(Miyazaki returns for Dark Souls 3 and Bloodborne and Sekiro and makes it look easy.)

Though to be fair, Dark Souls 2 was generally received okay, wasn't it? I know there are people that love it, but probably for weird or pointless esoteric reasons. Like, there are probably insane people who like it specifically *because* you have to up adaptability just to be able to get iframes, for some reason.

I was smitten with the opening cinematics, but strike one was the way a crone rolled the “make sure you don’t go hollowwww” around her mouth, and then the mechanics of the enemies were bad bad, and the “tutorial” section was so ugly, and when they did Fan Service Snuggly right off the bat I was just like “WOW NO THIS IS WRONG”

Playing a bad sequel has the possibility to be legacy-souring toward the beloved predecessor so I’m gonna hard pass and skip ahead to DS3 when I finish Bloodborne

Which is great

Yeah, there's a reason I saved it for last. The level design, the enemy design, the bosses, the enemy AI, most of it is pretty half-assed or aggravating (or both). But like I said, it's pretty low stress, like you're playing a free hacked version of a game you found.

You might like Sekiro, which is really well made and definitely in the same From family but still pretty different (sometimes subtly, sometimes significantly) from Souls and Bloodborne (and easily the most challenging of the bunch).

Forgot to mention that I changed my gender in the coffin (I usually play these games female in the off chance my daughters are paying attention, just so that it's not another dude with sword game) and ... it's pretty ridiculous. The first thing I noticed is that I suddenly *ran* like a girl - at least I think that's what it's going for - and then the next thing I noticed is that my death scream is the fakest barely even an approximation of a woman screaming. DS2 even fucked up the female scream sound!

Popped back in after a vacation break, and more than ever I want to know how this mess got made. Like, I know that Miyazaki wasn't really involved, and a certain level of jank is to be expected from any game, let alone one that was reportedly a little rushed and rudderless. But there is some degree of shittiness that's just inexplicable, most notably (so far) the enemy design, but particularly the bosses. For example, I just fought the Royal Rat, which was easy and stupid. Before that was the Cleric Mob (or whatever), which was easy and stupid. There have been a number of bosses which were also easy and stupid (and in many cases easy *because* they're stupid as much as stupid because they were so easy; looking at you, Jabba the Hut). Compare this with, say, "Sekiro," where *everything* is challenge, even many common enemies. But some of the other enemies are just so lazy in their design. Huh, a baddy that looks like a lion but also ... roars like a lion. Or a baddy that looks like an elephant and trumpets like one, too. Snooze.

And the mechanics as well remain weirdly wonky and slapdash. I'm in Brightstone Cove are there are a few things that have happened that remain I guess unexplained. Like, once I went across these spikes by a bridge and it kept making damage sounds but afaict nothing was happening. Another few times baddies shot what looked like double white sparky arrows at me that made a special spark sound, too, but either couldn't reach me (for once) or did nothing. And a couple times I was cursed, and that seemingly did nothing, either, which was a surprise after what happens with curse in DS1. And yet the toxicity of the rats killed me in like three seconds. So odd.

Giant Spider was tougher than the last several, but mostly because even the shittiest bosses here so far seem to take off half your health with one hit.

Lol, cruising through Shrine of Armana further shows off some shitty design. I mean, it *looks* cool enough, but it's so dark, enough so that you really should use a torch. Yet unlike all the previous levels of the game, there's nothing to actually ignite, and because there's water and enemies everywhere your torch keeps going out. That's almost perversely dickish, even for Dark Souls. And the level's progress, pitfalls and all it does a pretty poor job directing you where to go, too. Out of all the From games, this may be the first time I've ever completely missed a bonfire. Not some secret wall hidden bonfire BS. either, just a full-on bonfire location I guess I walked/ran past and I suppose no longer need, seeing as I made it to the next one instead. And some rando enemies and loot in here, too. DS2 reminds me of one of those full-game fan-mods I've seen people play, like Daughters of Ash.

Yeah that was exactly my impression, it felt like a full-game fan-mod

I imagine that it would've been enjoyable when it arrived, with no other From titles in the ether, but I can't imagine playing it for longer than the hour that I did... especially after sneaking peeks at certain boss fights, I'm kinda appalled!

Shrine of Amana was an infamously difficult gauntlet on release, to the point where they patched it and made it easier. I played it but can't remember why exactly -- probably something to do with your movement being slowed in the water and enemies shooting ranged magic at you from everywhere?

Yes. In fact, I killed the Frog Boss on the first try then decided to backtrack to the bonfire I missed, to see what other good stuff I missed, and it was such a PIA that I gave up on it. Wizards shooting homing magic at you, while pretty tough other dudes are swinging at you and lizard people are jumping out of the water at you, and then the occasional giant knight or hippo, and ... whatever. Sooooo much harder than the boss.

literally just lost 100k souls in demons souls to an invader popping up and ganking me as i was summoning a friend
this fucking game

I've become at peace with losing souls. DS2, at least, really seems to throw souls at you, especially at my stage, so if I lose thousands it never feels like the end of the world.

I'm at the level with the bellringers and rocks in the way and magic casters and it kind of sucks and just encourages you to find a way to speed past shit. Iirc this might be the only one of these games that offers NPC summons at the *start* of levels, not just for bosses, which is an admission there's a whole lot of bullshit to clear out and deal with.

Just killed ... I forget his name. Not Vendrick but the guy with the hammer/bell before him? Anyway, unrelated, this game, way more than any of the others, really seems to favor ranged attacks and, based on the items, magic? I keep getting tons and tons of stuff and talking to tons and tons of NPCs I really have no need for. Meanwhile, as a pretty meat and potatoes strength build (though honestly I've leveled up a bunch of stuff) there's really nothing for me. No need for magic, etc, no need to use stones or anything. Just my good ol' mace and a claymore (for when I need to sweep and stab). I have all these awesome strength scaling swords, but they're so fucking heavy I'd rather go for weaker than be forced to fat roll.

Killed the dragon. Yet *another* case in DS2 where the path to the boss was harder than the boss.

Just did Dragonland, too, at least the early part, and it was surprisingly chill and threat-free for something that lets you fight multiple dragons. What a weird game.

I did both dragon worlds, which were oddly empty and easy and with no bosses. Huh. The funny thing was that I went to a different area to check something out after, the place with the lion men, and there was some glitch that made their roar follow me to subsequent different levels I was re-exploring. It was like adventuring in a zoo.

Vendrick is (I think) the first boss I haven't beaten on the first or second try. Granted, there's no summons, and I have often been taking advantage of them, at the least to speed up this seemingly loooooong game. But also what makes it tricky (for me) is that he is like a reverse skill check: he doesn't seem hard, he's not fast and just walks in a circle, but he hits like a tank and swings wide, so it's all about being patient, like a boring dance. Hit, step step, hit, step step. For a long time. I learned about the Giant Souls making him easier/normal, and he's optional, but still.

And now he's been vanquished. What a boring boss. I think there are ... three DLCs to do next? I've heard both that they're among the best in all the games but also at least one of them is among the most frustrating. Also I assume there is at least one final boss to get, as far as the main game/"plot" goes.

Eh, I just went ahead and finished the main game. Man, the final cavalcade of bosses in this is a breeze compared to Sekiro. Here's how I would rank all the From games (not including the DLC for DS2, which I'll get to soon).

Best game: Bloodborne. Hands down, best lore, most surprises, best look/design, best play style, great DLC.
Worst game: DS2. It gets better, but it is so unbalanced. Bosses are easy, levels and regular enemies tough, janky gameplay. But still fine/fun.
Best Dark Souls: Probably the first, but I really liked the third.
Favorite all around: I want to say DS3 or BB, especially with the DLC.
Least favorite all around: Sekiro. It's really well designed but I never clicked with the gameplay or setting or lack of options. Didn't bother with all that epic PIA endgame stuff.
Worst plot: all of them are impenetrable gibberish about cycles and reincarnation and blood and thrones, and I don't care how many youtube videos claim otherwise.

have you played demon souls yet

No, I don't have a PS5.

i'm in endgame of the first runthrough. holds up well but SO MANY OUTDATED PLAYSTYLES and they opted to leave them in.