who in this bitch reads robert jordan? -- The Wheel of Time thread

also i had to search online to make sure that perrin did the very bad thing as opposed to pulling short and simply watching her die from other wounds

Ive been busy, will catch these as and when

this was...consistently mediocre

I assume "best actor" is the guy who plays Mat? Everyone else had strong "these are the words in the script and I am reading them" energy.

It is a *long* time since I read any of the books and most of what I remember has already happened, so I'll enjoy the ride until it inevitably gets cancelled.

Crossposted from Ned's FB post, a few thoughts...

1. Rand and Mat both seem much less likable than than in the books, though, (SPOILERS) Rand obviously becomes more of a dick as things go along.

2. Hated Thom's song and the corny guitar theme they play when he's about to enter the frame. Music in general is not great but I guess it could be worse.

3. Myrddraal good and scary. very good job.

There are certainly some obvious fantasy cliches, as my wife who has never read the books pointed out, but there's not much the TV creators can do about that. I think it's really good tbh. Or at least a lot better than I thought it would be.

There are some things, I wonder how well telegraphed they were to an audience unfamiliar with the books? Does the casual viewer have any understanding of what happened to Mat at Shadar Logoth? Again, I haven't read the books in decades, and maybe the reader doesn't understand shit at his point either, but i dunno man.

Whitecloaks are good cuz I hate them.

I am enjoying this but also I’m furious about Perrin

lol. at least it will presumably save us hundreds of pages' worth of axe vs. hammer whining

Yeah I don't particularly like the Perrin plot change but I can see the reasoning behind it. So far it has only meant that the actor sits there looking like he is deeply constipated but things could improve from this point.

always love a maria doyle kennedy appearance

Good irish casting from what i can see overall

Okay, my thoughts generally:

1. So far, about as good as I reasonably expected. Pacing feels all over the place but that is kind of inevitable, as is the frequent clunkiness of dialogue and intermittent failure to explain what is actually going on.

2. The adjustments to the stories of various of the characters seem like logical responses to the clear challenge of how to make some of these characters interesting who otherwise don't really do much in the first book. Apart from finding the dagger, Mat is a non-entity in the first book; Perrin has a great POV stretch but you'd never know he was interesting without being in his head. I think the show has mixed success in responding to these difficulties: they've successfully transformed Mat from the least interesting character to the most (obviously in the books Mat starts to become excellent from about book 3 and especially book 5); Perrin so far is a bit wait-and-see but I can see what they're trying to do. In some ways the adjustments to Mat's character are more subtly dramatic which is perhaps why they work more effectively at least initially.

3. Rand and Egwene, despite having the most screen time initially, are perhaps the least developed, which kind of makes sense given the intention appears to be to set them up as, effectively, duelling protagonists who are at once connected and opposed and who probably each get less likeable and more complicated as they go along. Both actors seem fine.

4. Nynaeve's character and actor do a lot with a little so far. The way the Nynaeve / Lan relationship is being set up seems fun.

5. I'm a bit surprised by how clearly they have set up some of the cosmic/philosophical questions that only come into view in the final few books. The nihilist worldview expressed by the darkfriend in episode 3 was a big surprise but I cautiously approve - makes the question "what do the evil forces actually want" a much more interesting issue than it was for at least the first few books - whereas Tam's short speech on reincarnation in episode 1 is basically a foreshadowing of the books' effective moral resolution in The Gathering Storm (if the show ever gets that far, I'm sure it will flashback to Tam's speech at that point).

6. Conversely, I do not like the implied adjustment to Ishamael's backstory. This is a much bigger deal to me than the whole "anyone, male or female, can be the dragon" adjustment which the fanbase (predictably and depressingly) is more upset about.

7. We definitely need more Moiraine backstory or to see more from her POV (and I suspect we're going to get one or both soon). Her general air of mystery feels a bit unearned and generic-fantasy at this point.

8. Totally approve of the whitecloaks' beefed-up menace, though the distinction between Eamon and Geofram's attitudes to Aes Sedai isn't really explained.

There are some things, I wonder how well telegraphed they were to an audience unfamiliar with the books? Does the casual viewer have any understanding of what happened to Mat at Shadar Logoth? Again, I haven't read the books in decades, and maybe the reader doesn't understand shit at his point either, but i dunno man.

Yeah, in the books you don't know he has taken the dagger until a bit later, and then you don't know the consequences of him having done so until later still. In the books he just seems to become really bitter and twisted and suspicious for no particular reason (or alternatively, the best reason is just the reaction to being on the run and feeling lost and abandoned and thinking everyone else is probably dead).

I think they're following that arc reasonably closely, at least based on the character's behaviour in episode 3.

More problematic to my mind was the failure to even say briefly what mashadar even was, though maybe they'll add some retrospective exposition when the dagger plotline plays out.

Arah we hardly ever find that out anyway tbf

The question of what a darkfriend is and what they want is well and truly botched by the time we get to the last battle anyways

the fact that mashadar appeared the instant mat unsheathed the dagger would seem to be telling, but since i've read the books i have no idea how obvious that would be to a new viewer

man, liandrin's face is *wide*

The question of what a darkfriend is and what they want is well and truly botched by the time we get to the last battle anyways

― fix up luke shawp (darraghmac), Monday, 22 November 2021 00:36 (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Haha yeah well the last battle kind of abandons the notion of traditional darkfriends entirely - it's all shara channelers and vampire aiel and balefire destroying reality by that point.

But it was weird to hear a darkfriend in the show espouse a worldview basically limited to ishamael / moridin.

i read about half of the first book earlier this year, then abandoned it even though i was enjoying it well enough. i didn't having the commitment to reading all of them, and figured, why not just watch it on television instead!

which brings me here tonight. i don't really binge shows much but i watched all 3 in a row. not all the performances were great and i kind let out a little lol when the shadow was spreading in Shadar Logoth, not just because it looked like splatoon 3 but also the realization that the seemingly unstoppable evil force was going to be suddenly stymied at a border for at least the third time in three episodes. there was also the trollocs who can't swim, the trollocs who were afraid to enter Shadar Logoth (which, makes sense there I guess). it's not a big deal, it's just kind of funny.

the part where perrin and egwene meet the deadheads is around the time i abandoned the book. and also there was a cool dogwolfman - looking forward to that for sure

I like this. I have minor quibbles, but I'm mostly into it so far. Nynaeve is probably the best acting of the bunch so far, but I'm excited to see more of Padan Fain - feel like that actor is going to have fun with the role.

man, liandrin's face is *wide*

This was excellent casting and also this statement made me lol

My non reader brother’s favourite character: Nynaeve
Why: “she’s better than everybody else”

— ciara📖 (@emmacarstairsgf) November 21, 2021

Good to see some things translated well to the new medium

15 mins in and what the fuck is this

Look we'll get to the changes later, and the music on ilm, but whats with the terrible sound mix with the dialogue

Think the cleverness of "anyone might be the dragon" lasts ok at first glance but as a very specific contributor to the underlying gender/magic politics and history im not sure they havent screwed up things a bit with it

Perrin/Mat backstories might make it easier for this rafe lad to jump things forward quickly but it's significant disimprovement on the patience you'd have hoped for- part of the energy of the first few books is the slow reveal and the very open feel of what might be happening as the characters and situations emerge

In one way Im relaxed now because the divorce from the source material is so complete and strong already that theres no emotional heft to this after two episodes and i can just watch it until the surprisingly cheap FX get to me, if i get into it (and it has plenty of good points) then great if not then great, but a bit of a pity

Whatever about Perrin, whatever about sex scenes and swearing (bad indicators here as to whether our producers have a feel for or care about our books i feel) its a scandal how abell cauthon has been done so dirty

Mainly i want to go on holidays to slovenia

The books more or less ruined fantasy for me when I was twelve.

Early in the fourth volume I realized Robert Jordan had no plan for how to finish the story, and I lost my taste for the genre. Giving up on a novel has never felt better.

It was so unsurprising when Robert Jordan died with this shit incomplete, what was it... thirteen years later. But I did (and do) feel bad for everyone who had stuck with it only to be cheated out of an ending by the original author.

XP darrahmac have you been to Slovenia before? I was lucky enough to visit a few years back and it was well worth the trip.

The whole region is high on my list, never went further than landing in bratislava and immediately coaching to vienna (lol ryanair)

The books are worthy (better than this imo) through 6 and pick up again at *disputed book number here* but this os ofc a matter of personal taste

the western side of lake bohinj is one of the most beautiful places on Earth

(imo)

yeah the landscapes are magnificent, nice one slovenia 👌🏻

My non reader brother’s favourite character: Nynaeve
Why: “she’s better than everybody else”

— ciara📖 (@emmacarstairsgf) November 21, 2021

Episode three:

Matts a good actor, sells the somewhat grittier shorthand world/story they are giving us here

Darkfriend shouldnt have been asked the philosophy, it was hollow stuff and as discussed jordan himself wasnt much cop beyond "riches or threat" at that level.

Merrilins nick cave was as bad as feared but i like the rest of him

Getting into it

Herself likes it without having any investment in the books, she has enjoyed witcher and shadow and bone and i guess its in those wheelhouses (of time) pretty squarely, when i can remember not to wonder what (change x) will mean for (what i know about the books) im sure its simple, fast-paced enough fare

Arams irish accent is fucking nonsense

Which is impressive bad acting given hes irish

can already see that show vs darragh's reactions will be the real entertainment value here

that said i find it quite decent, and am taking bets on when orla brady will appear

Four eps in

This is good now, its own thing

They pronounce everything wrong, ofc

Maria Doyle Kennedy is, I think, trying for an irish traveller accent, i think thats a bit literal but a choice is a choice

Only just spotted merrillin as merlin whether thats just coincidence or jordan playing with names as is his wont or them pronouncing it that way (cf above) is hard to say

End of episode 4 - that didn't happen in the books right

Agree on MDK's accent it's definitely not her normal one but it's not a traveller either it's like "imagine you're still Irish but you have a different accent good luck"

The paving on this show is so strange.

The pacing too.

crazy

pic.twitter.com/hGCpcjVq1d

— Assmodean (@AsmodeanChosen) November 30, 2021

i dont see an issue, and the potential was there, because of the extensive and immediate changes

Its not the books, nobody can mistake it for the books, wonder what theyll do with it

I'm actually enjoying that while I'm reasonably confident as to the broad outline of where things will go (i.e. I think a one minute summary of the show's overall plot ultimately will basically match an equivalent summary of the books) I can't be sure of the specifics.

Yes, pretty much

Disappointment: various kingdoms and lands are just gonna be transposed eg spain

In my head while reading its a lot freer, and its important imo to have the national/ethnic/whatever entities not shorthanded to the familiar

Disappointment: various kingdoms and lands are just gonna be transposed eg spain

In my head while reading its a lot freer, and its important imo to have the national/ethnic/whatever entities not shorthanded to the familiar

episode 4 was v exciting!

rand seems like such a smoothbrained idiot, i really dont care for the character or the actor at all so far

everyone else v good, no complaints yet

i have to say, i really love the CGI scenes where moraine is doing some incredible spell and lan is tromping around the spell's area effect, kicking ass like it's Diablo II

The bad news is that this contravenes major elements of the magic and world as written in several serious and important ways the good news well the producers liked it too i guess

wait, why can't moraine charge up and do her cool magic spells?