King Crimson: Classic Or Dud

I am actually kind of shocked Fripp never tried to re-record his catalog.

he's got a real archivist mentality so I don't think it's that surprising. can't really re-record albums which feature improvs recorded on a specific day

But he's also absolutely fanatical about his masters and feuding with his labels. Doesn't matter now, of course.

idk if there's one prog musician who would argue that a note-for-note, practically indistinguishable re-recording of the original material was a TOTALLY DIFFERENT ALBUM I bet it would be him. doesn't he own the masters now? the original run of KC albums gets remastered and reissued every 6 months it seems.

anyway don't wanna derail and don't wanna bump a Bowie thread so I'll just say here that the riff on "Joe the Lion" is so cool

be careful what you wish for, i just had a nightmarish vision of the KC catalogue re-recorded with Toyah doing every vocal

might be good to add some sex appeal to the mix, maybe get the guys interested

I think the only re-recording that Fripp has done was to try to remove Gordon Haskell from KC history, having his parts redone by Belew and Levin in a few places. I guess there are also the multiple versions of Exposure, but I don't think that involved any subsequent re-recording.

then there's the mythical alternate release of Lizard which is basically the same performance but includes Fripp yelling "wrong!" every time another band member makes a mistake.

i need to hear this. all songs need a mythical alternative version with the overbearing patriarch of the band bollocking his mates all the way through

It's not just for Fall records any more!

Like his reaction to someone auditioning for his Guitar Craft school: "Not entirely wretched".

Listening to the new live album Music Is Our Friend, mostly recorded in DC in September, and it's pretty fucking amazing. I saw them in 2017 and Radical Action... is pretty close in spirit to the show I saw. This is much heavier, the sax solos are free-jazz-ier, and the drummers are going absolutely berserk. I didn't think I needed any more 21st century live KC albums, but this one might be their most crushing live record ever.

I recall the show I saw in 2017 (I think?) to be OK, but not this good. The drummers are more unleashed here, which is cool and which reminds me of the last (final?) tour I caught with Belew in 2008. Like, when you've got Gavin Harrison, let the dude do his thing, you know?

The show I saw in 2019 (referenced upthread) was this good. They’re really incredible live – and getting incredibler.

they were amazing this year, granted it helped that I was mega drunk, outdoors in socially distanced seating with good friends, but it was fantastic.

people were headbanging lol, and not even to 21st Century

Apparently this is the end?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQsrO8cVnJ0

It’s a bit equivocal, but Tony Levin says that 8th December was quite possibly the final King Crimson concert”.

https://tonylevin.com/road-diaries/king-crimson-2021-tour-part2-japan/tokyo-the-final-show

yes, Fripp and Singleton have been saying as much for a little while now and Fripp is being more explicit about it on his personal FB account this week. I'm really glad I was able to see each of these tours (until this year's which was not optimal as it was an opening slot for Zappa band, outdoors, and a shortened set), they were some of the best live shows I've ever experienced.

I thought the Zappa band was the opener.

I think it was supposed to be 'co headline' but AFAIK the Zappa band played last here. could be wrong. either way it was a much shorter set for crimson than the previous 3 hours ones they were doing.

Fwiw, hasn't Fripp pulled the plug on Crimson at least twice before?

This was very sweet - https://tonylevin.com/road-diaries/king-crimson-2021-tour-part2-japan/in-the-company-of-ghosts

lord, if that was it, i am mega glad I caught them finally this year

I regret not catching them this year (or ever). I guess there's always youtube.

I caught their 50th anniversary tour in September 2019, the only time ever - better late than never!

It is finished

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGzyT0sMZPs

What an amazing band. So King Crimson is done, but is Fripp himself retiring?

Six months of making those videos with his wife and he'll be back out on the road.

Apparently he and his manager are going to do a spoken-word Q&A tour where he makes wry putdowns to anyone who asks him a question.

"So, Mr. Fripp, during the first part of Lizard you play a C sharp minor chord that..." "WRONG! NEXT!"

"So, Mr. Fripp, during the first part of Lizard you play a C sharp minor chord that..."

This could also be Fripp answering questions in the third person.

"People ask Fripp, why New Standard Tuning. What Fripp can say is that Fripp would not be Fripp without Fripp, and to deviate from Fripp would be to lose what makes Fripp Fripp. Now, Fripp off before I Fripp out."

I thought Fripp was wiping tears from his eyes when the camera first panned to him, but he was just taking a picture. Was going to say "Ha! You are a sentimental old bastard!"

"We're not talking about Discipline today!"

I've been listening to live KC shows today but quickly narrowed it to that line-up behind Lark's Tongue and Red - what an incredible unit. I like a lot of their stuff, but I keep coming back to Red and hearing those songs expanded on stage always knocks me out, especially the title track.

Will probably dive into the Great Deceiver live albums last (same era), but FWIW, the ones I'm really loving now are all from 1974, at Mainz, Asbury Park Casino and their last live show of the decade (!) at Central Park. The Central Park show unfortunately has no multi-track, just a copy made from the soundboard, but the performance more than makes up for it - it may even be my favorite despite the hit it takes in sound quality.

Do you think that the USA release gives enough of a taster of that era for those who don't want to listen to show after show?

had to miss the Milwaukee show because my daughter got sick...thought it was appendicitis but it was just an infection. yes i will hold this against her for life

...and while we're on the topic of live albums, has anyone made a more listenable playlist of the early 1972 live recordings than what wound up on the Earthbound LP?

xxp It's a good listen, but I think The Great Deceiver Parts One and Two is a much better (and still economical) pick. USA feels like a sampler since it omits some big numbers played on the tour. The Great Deceiver used to be an expensive four-CD box set, but it was reissued as two double-disc sets packaged in "slim" jewel cases and priced much lower than before. Still in-print and easy to find.

Actually, you could just get the Asbury Park show, which was newly mixed and released in 2005 - USA is mostly a heavily edited and overdubbed version of that with I think a few substitutions.

Halfway there but for you asked: "Do you think that the USA release gives enough of a taster of that era for those who don't want to listen to show after show?"

I highly recommend giving "The Great Deceiver" box a try, and one of the big advantages of it over "USA" is the amount of high-quality improvised material - those fellers were absolutely on fire.

xxxp - the Ladies of the Road set is pretty good for this

Forgot, the Mainz and Asbury Park shows were also paired together as The Collectable King Crimson: Volume One which is pretty cheap for a two-CD set. It does look a little cheap, but it's an official release and sounds great. The Great Deceiver - either as the box set or the two double-disc sets I mentioned - would be the one I'd get if I only make one purchase, but if you actually prefer whole shows, The Collectable King Crimson: Volume One or just the Asbury Park disc would be better than USA.

the friend I took to the KC show this year had barely listened to KC at all prior. I helped her move the other day and she put "Starless" on in the car and said it's her favorite song now

<3

Forgive me if this has already been posted, but just recently I heard this particular recording for the first time, and it blew my mind - "Schizoid Man" backing tracks recorded at Morgan Studios in 1969, with new overdubs to fill it out. (Listen to the spoken intro for the back story.) Most notably, Michael Giles's drums sound INCREDIBLE here; I always thought that the album version's snare drum sound was terrible! Like a cardboard box. The cymbals are more prominent and sound better here, too. Amazing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k06ljRKlmys

"Ladies of the Road" 2xCD seconded! (For the Boz/Mel era.) The entire second disc is a Frankenstein's monster patchwork of 12 live recordings of "Schizoid Man" stitched together to make one mega-song. And for the record, I love "Earthbound" even with its low fidelity...that version of "Groon" is a wild ride.

The Mainz improv of The Savage into the Doctor Diamond (never recorded in the studio) is just the heaviest thing in the world. Wetton’s bass sounds absolutely enormous while Fripp and Cross duel over the top. It’s also incredible in surround.

Earthbound was remastered as much as possible, and expanded from 5 tracks to 12, this year. Still not amazing, but worth hearing for sure.