Todd Rundgren: C or D

apropos of nothing I'd like to share this Nazz song about a pig born into a man's body who decides to become a police officer to beat people up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IdK-pE2r_A

learned a fun fact about Initiation - apparently when the album was recorded it was even longer, presumably because it was supposed to be a double, but there was a plastic shortage which forced him to try to get it all on one LP. to accomplish this he just sped up most of the tunes - the first 4 tracks and the entire second half. Apparently "A Treatise on Cosmic Fire" was originally 42 minutes and wound up getting sped up an entire semitone. I suppose that is why the album sounds so unnatural. I've heard the "Real Man" 7 inch has these tracks at the "correct" speed (the B-side is a short excerpt of "Treatise") but I don't have it so I can't say. Either way strange he never tried to "fix" it when the CDs came out. Maybe he just liked it better that way!

That is bizarre

Isn't each side of that one about 30 minutes? I figured the smaller/tighter groove caused the thin sound.

inventor of nightcore!

yeah that's true of several of his 70s albums - Wizard & the s/t Utopia one especially. I always suspected "Utopia Theme" and "The Ikon" were sped up on certain non-singing sections. Hard to prove because there isn't really any information out there, but I am guessing that even Todd knew better than to put out a 67-minute single LP.

He knew better, but that's the duration of Initiation as released!

right - what I'm speculating is that it was originally a 72-minute double LP, but someone at the label told him he had to cut it to a single due to the plastic shortage, so instead of cutting anything he just sped parts of it up until it fit

Where did you hear that? I just quickly AB’d a bunch of versions of Real Man (including live versions) the j Spotify and they’re all in the same key, maybe one or two of them are a bit sharp.

Interesting
Makes you wonder how often masters were slowed / sped up unbeknownst to the listener. Is there a thread ?
Zoe’s levee (slowed) and Remains (sped up) are the two I can think of quickly

From Wikipedia

At over sixty-seven minutes, Initiation is one of the longest commercially-released LPs due to a plastic shortage. In order to keep the album on one vinyl LP Rundgren had to limit and EQ the master so the bass response was rolled off to keep the grooves small enough to cut onto a single disc, he also had to speed up the first half of Side One (Real Man-Eastern Intrigue)and speed up the entirety of Side Two to eliminate 2-3 minutes from each side(5). The album's original inner sleeve included a note which stated: "Technical note: Due to the amount of music on this disc (over one hour), two points must be emphasized. Firstly, if your needle is worn or damaged, it will ruin the disc immediately. Secondly, if the sound does seem not loud enough on your system, try re-recording the music onto tape. By the way, thanks for buying the album."

What percentage would you need to speed something up to change the key?

Since double speed is up one octave, about 8% per semitone?

masters were slowed / sped up

The whole Layla album was originally sped up, according to the liner notes on the remixed version.

I dunno, I still kind of doubt it was sped up that much given that all the live versions are in the as-released key and his voice sounds the same (it’s not an easy song to sing). But at the same time I wouldn’t put it past Todd to teach his entire band to play something in, say, D# just because they could.

Makes you wonder how often masters were slowed / sped up unbeknownst to the listener. Is there a thread ?

Not that uncommon back in the day. Singles especially.

"Glory" on Television's "Adventure" is definitely sped up.

One of the most famous is Caroline No by The Beach Boys, which was sped up at Murry Wilson’s urging apparently to make Brian sound more youthful.

currently listening to No World Order again, you know what, I give him a ton of credit for doing this. for all the "70s rock star does tries to adopt a modern genre" albums this has got to be one of the strangest. and it was originally released on the CD-i! what a weirdo!!!

Listening to it on cassette at the time, I wanted it to be A Wizard, A True Star with raps, but I couldn't convince myself.

Lol

this live take on International Feel is kinda there I guess

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFXGDy1cFiE

there are a number of clips on YouTube from that one-man tour. it's not quite Todd at his best but still you gotta respect him for doing it because there are so many ways it could go wrong. he's got a ton of audiovisual gear on stage and not all of it appears to work properly. he invites people up to play guitar and drums and more often than not they just suck at it. he's got all these props but also is always doing like 5 things at once. if nothing else it's a fun glimpse into what the future was supposed to look like...in 1994

anyway I think a lot of the reason the NWO album isn't very good has to do with the CD-i "interactive" technology, idk what exactly it could handle but he seems to be limited to pretty simple bass lines and is kind of forced to use the same tempo for everything. so a lot of his clever songwriting touches are out the window. that said I think the songs are actually okay. "Worldwide Epiphany" could've been something had he not had to produce it the way he did. and the rapping, while horrible, is at least funny enough to be somewhat excusable.

He's a better rapper than, uh, Ted Nugent:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iefzSqxgVlI

(skip to 3:40)

this live take on International Feel is kinda there I guess

― frogbs, Wednesday, April 27, 2022 11:15 PM (yesterday)

That's pretty cool

Parallel Lines is up there in the pantheon of "songs you're embarrassed to admit you really love"

actually kinda realizing now that Nearly Human is basically his go at a Sting album - very serious (for Todd) singer/songwriter showcase, with an incredible stable of session musicians who bring a professional touch to everything. Hawking is like his "Why Must I Cry For You", just an emotional gutpunch you forgot he was capable of.

oh but Sting could never pull off something like I Love My Life. he'd definitely try, though

...and I don't see Todd trying so hard to be "atmospheric" (maybe Healing is the exception?); there's always something "surface-level" about his productions, while I think of Sting smothering his 80s records in hazy synth pads.

Yeah, I don’t hear a lick of Nothing Like the Sun or Soul Cages in Nearly Human, which was recorded live and is way more maximalist than the former.

Parallel Lines is up there in the pantheon of "songs you're embarrassed to admit you really love"

Neither song nor album made my list, but I enjoy both. Is the song embarrassing because of its emotional openness? I seem to recall from Todd's memoir that he wrote it around a real-life relationship situation that ended up afterwards in marriage; like "Another Satellite" on Skylarking, both songs written by men to women (whom they would later marry) about the impossibility of having a relationship.

very serious (for Todd) singer/songwriter showcase

Nearly Human was his first album in four years, first out of the Bearsville/Grossman organization since the Nazz, and first since Utopia disbanded; he was definitely trying to show Warner Bros his most commercial side, there wasn't any room for "Miracle at the Bazaar" or "Lockjaw".

first out of the Bearsville/Grossman organization since the Nazz

Actually a few of the latter-day Utopia albums were on another label.

actually was thinking more of Blue Turtles, particularly in the way they both kick off with a big boisterous jazz pop song. "Unloved Children" also sounds a lot like something he would've done with that Bring on the Night live band (isn't "Another Day" kind of similar?) I think Sting uses a maximalist approach on those first few albums as well. but yeah what sticks out is how seriously he takes this one, even on "normal" albums like Mink Hollow or his real heady spiritual trip ones like Healing & Liars he always finds room to goof around. maybe that's why the CD has the "Two Little Hitlers" cover on it.

Is the song embarrassing because of its emotional openness?

idk but there's a certain saccharine quality to a lot of Todd's work, like he bends the notes just so, and so sometimes when he does a real serious song it feels unnecessarily corny. or maybe it's those sparkly synths in it? its almost a bit vaporwavey.

“parallel lines” is good but I prefer “the waiting game”.. some really cool vocal harmonies on that one.

Nice quote from Todd here:

I was always fascinated with Weezer’s approach to things. They were, in some ways, founders of the whole emo thing.

would be hilarious if this new album was his supernatural and won him like 6 grammys

huh, that's actually a pretty interesting concept. its the sort of thing 70s Todd would've come up with.

My Todd-head pal sends me articles like this:

Rundgren is always trying to broaden his influences, seeking new music, consulting his children on what he should be listening to – but even then, it can be challenging. “It’s very hard to find artists who are sincerely musical nowadays, who haven’t simply leveraged their internet celebrity into a musical career,” he says. “The music is just mediocre.” He wonders whether people still form the same intimate attachment to songs as he did growing up. “Then, most of the music you got exposed to was the Top 40 on the radio,” he says. “Nowadays I open my newsreader and there’s 20 artists whose names sound like they’re internet passwords and you’ve never heard their music.”

assuming Lil Nas X he's talking about?

rolling twenty-something RYM/internet stuff like hyperpop, hypnagogic pop, hexD, vaporwave, dungeon synth, cloud rap, nightcore, black midi, future funk, dariacore, seapunk, blown out anime voices, br

And Justin Bieber.

I thought he meant, like, DJ Charlie Bit My Finger or something (not actual artists whose initial success happened to be online).

I'm listening to the album now. I'd never heard Down with This Ship in all of this time but somehow its the highlight so far (I'm on Someday)

These yung Internet kids can't create such sincerely musical works of art as Todd

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHpOJ8rRE64

"Internet celebrity" could be any artist who didn't build their career on broadcast media, physical media & live shows. YouTube, tiktok, streaming, etc, all on the internet.

it's pretty disappointing that he sez shit like that, because for a good long while, he demonstrated an informed awareness, edging towards appreciation, for newer music… for a long time, he wasn't a moldy fig like Keith richards; he has no sentimentality for the big studio era of recording from 1966-2000 or whatever and is perfectly onboard with people recording on their laptops (which is what he has done for a very long time, and in the case of the records he has made in the last 30 years, they sound pretty bad); I remember him talking about T- Pain pretty approvingly, as if the guy who made A Cappella would be able to hang with artists creatively misusing auto-tune…

I think he is still that guy, but y'know he is 74 and allowed to be a crank once in a while. I mean the entire industry and the figures it cultivates are much much different from what they were in the 70's so I don't blame him for wondering exactly what the kids are doing these days. No doubt a guy like Todd, if he was starting today, would have a hard time making it in today's climate. But I am curious what exactly he's referring to there.

Yeah, I actually kind of appreciate that while he keeps pressing his kids for new musical ideas and trends he isn't just blindly accepting them. But at the same time, if that quote and clip tell us anything about Todd it's that if he's nothing if not consistently inconsistent.

Didn't we discuss what a pain he can be to deal with? Maybe on the POLL rollout? Some particular quote from a member of XTC comes to mind.

that would be Andy Partridge, who is also known as being a pain in the ass to work with. Todd does a lot of production work and afaik nobody else has really complained about him, though he does seem like the kind of guy who trusts his own gut too much. as Veronica pointed out above the last 30 years of one-man band albums he's done all sound pretty crappy. he uses a bunch of stock loops and cheap synth sounds which make the music sound like some random dude uploading songs to Soundcloud. its real unfortunate because his voice has held up really well, and his songwriting is still pretty good. If he just hooked up with younger musicians and/or producers who could actually make what he's trying to do sound good I think his later records would be held in much higher esteem. but he won't do that.

I was encouraged at the time when he hooked up with Lindstrom and the guy from Serena Manesch for Runsdans, it’s like… I’m not a big Lindstrom fan but at least he’s a fan and seems to “get” what makes Todd’s cosmic touch special..and he wasn’t some random crap EDM chump which I feel happens a lot when olds go for the electronic touch.

Did he and Dam Funk do something together recently or am I imagine things?

he meaning Todd, not Hans

Dam-Funk opened for him at some point and they have a collaboration on White Knight, which I thought was pretty good. unfortunately I think that and the Trent Reznor ones are the only tracks where the guests actually have a hand in the production. that said the album as a whole sounds better than his last few.