Dark Souls 2: YOU DIED HARDER

Dipped a toe into Dark Souls 2 (First Sin edition, or whatever they call it). Already it just feels and looks ... different from DS1 and DS2.

DS3, I meant.

This game really leans into large groups of enemies, doesn't it? And dark rooms? At least it does so far. Bad reputation or no, it's fine so far (very early game still, haven't hit a boss yet), and I like how even the least loved From game still had some new ideas that made their way into future From games.

There was meant to be a much heavier gameplay emphasis on using torches to light up dark rooms that was somewhat present in one fairly difficult early area, but had to be scaled back because of technical challenges for the rest of the game

Is that why there are things to light everywhere? I think I'm at a dark room area that I should probably light up before exploring.

Huh, so enemies stop respawning after a certain number of kills? Is that to stop you from farming? That's kinda annoying.

Killed the giant, which is a weird first boss. Noticing more glitches and odd janky stuff in this than in any other From game. Between those and the look/design and some aspects of game play, this feels almost like an off-brand knockoff Dark Souls. Still enjoying it so far.

I think it was to make it easier for someone who just couldn't get past a certain section?

I noticed with "Wolfenstein: New Order" (which I finished; it was dumb) that if you die at a certain spot enough times it gives you a prompt reminding you that you can change the difficulty at any time. I think I like that better. But "Dark Souls," to just decide at a certain arbitrary point to make it "easier" (you still have to beat the bosses!) without asking kind of misses the point of "Dark Souls." I'd rather them offer a more powerful weapon or ring you can save up to buy early game than just get rid of spawning, especially since farming, in all these games, is a thing, not least ... to make things easier, by leveling up. I guess there's a reason the no-spawning thing was dropped in later From games.

Is this no-spawning thing the case for the whole game, or just early game? And if they wanted to make things easier for players, then why have the health bar shrink every time you die? I'd much rather have *more* enemies and a full health bar. And honestly, who would play DS2 if they didn't play any of the other games first? And if they played any of the other games, they should know what they're in for.

There's weapon degradation in this too, right? I've been using the fire longsword I got in a cave as I build up my levels, and I could have sworn at one point its life meter was decreasing, but then it seemed to be full again.

It's the whole game, but you can use an item to reset the area (and make them harder!): http://darksouls2.wikidot.com/bonfire-ascetic

I think this was when the conversation around Dark Souls being a difficult game was at its height, so they experimented with a bunch of weird mechanics around it. There's also the 'Covenant of champions', where you can opt in to making the game much harder off the bat, lol: http://darksouls2.wikidot.com/company-of-champions

I think you need to repair weapons at a blacksmith in this game? Which is a pain. Possibly intended to encourage you to carry and use multiple weapons?

That said, I did appreciate the lack of spawning when it came to the Pursuer. I died to him enough times that it was a relief when I didn't have to bother killing enemies at bottlenecks on the way back to the fight.

Still, I still think From got rid of the respawning to make things *harder*, to prevent too much farming. I mean, why would they do this one thing to make things harder, when dying enough to prevent enemies from spawning also means your health bar has been shrinking? Especially at this stage in the game, when humanity is limited, and that (afaict) is the only thing you can use to restore the health bar to its full capacity. And even then, it doesn't even top it off for you! I've also encountered a bunch of glitches and other bullshit that have messed with the game. For example, screwy hit boxes: I've been damaged by enemies when I'm *behind* them! Also, as I was struggling with the Pursuer I learned there was indeed a summon, so I used one of my precious humanities, led him to the battle ... and he got stuck behind the fog gate. Wtf?

The most shocking thing is that this *is* the "fixed" version of the game.

("make things easier" I meant.)

OK, "Sekiro" is still my least favorite, for now, so far, but at least it runs well. This one, the design and execution is just so ... like a Dark Souls knockoff. And speaking of which, at the start of Heide Tower of Flame Power, I'm pretty sure I fell off the path to my death as much of if not more than I died to the giant knights and the white knights (all with pretty impressive homing blades). I need to crank up ADP to get i-frames, right? Because my rolling ain't really getting me far.

Oh, another thing that seems new/annoying with this is ... infinite aggro range? That is, once you engage an enemy, they basically follow you wherever you go, forcing you either to fight them again and again, or (if you're insane) all at once. There's no more option of just running through areas you've had enough of, afaict. I thought I could do that when I was running to the Pursuer fight, and then I learned that you're not invulnerable when you enter fog gates. They just swarmed and killed me before I even got to the boss.

My current strategy, at least at this tower of fire stage, which doesn't seem that long, is to repeatedly clear out an area specifically to stop the enemies from spawning. if they're going to have infinite aggro range, and if the game's going to make you fight them over and over again before you get to the boss, and not let you run past them, and not even give you invincibility when you open the fog gate, then I'm just going to kill them aall and use it for farming until it won't let me anymore. and then I'll have a clear run to the boss.

Invaders loved being able to backstab someone as they were going into the fog gate, lol.

And yeah, you need to level adaptability just to get a normal Dark Souls roll, which was dumb.

Yeah, add that to the litany of pain in the butt stuff that seems to be there just to be a pain in the butt.

Oh, I see, the Pursuer is just going to randomly pop up now and kill me? And now he's got magic ranged attacks? Good one, Dark Souls 2.

Speaking of which, this game seems to punish you for melee builds. Lots of advantages to ranged attacks in general. I guess I should buy a bunch more arrows.

Well, he is called the Pursuer for a reason.

He should be called the Just Randomly Shows Upper Because he is Too Fat to Pursuer Me Through Doorways

visions of fatty...

Another head-scratcher: I understand this version adds a bunch of statues blocking doorways that require a Fragrant Branch of Yore (or whatever), but ... why? Seems like just another example of putting a hurdle in for hurdle's sake.

There were statues in the original version, I think they were just moved around in the Scholar version? Basically the same as locked doors requiring key items in the other games, except they all take the same key. Mostly optional stuff and items behind them I think, but I never really played the SotFS version.

I think they all require a Branch, and those branches are iic both limited and not cheap. And of course there are keys to be found or bought, too!

I'm at Lost Bastille, and so far getting to various bosses exposes you to more BS and often tougher enemies than the bosses themselves, especially if you're clubbing baddies to death with a mace and not firing lasers at them from a distance.

That's what I meant by key item, the branches (but yeah, I didn't love that mechanic, it felt too fraught to use a branch and not know if you were opening up a big path or just getting some optional item).

Lost Bastille was one of the cooler levels I think? But this isn't making me want to replay DS2, lol.

I hope Lost Bastille is not one of the cooler levels, because it's just kind of like a drab castle with lots of dogs and mummies and bullshit. The only point of it existing seems to be unlocking the ember blacksmith.

Ha, maybe I'm thinking of the next couple areas and conflating them into one?

More DS2 BS for the sake of BS. I thought I was coming up to a gargoyle battle, but it turns out I can't get to the (optional?) boss without another lockstone. I did have two lockstones before, but I used them up the first chances I had, once to get into a secret room (the first time) and the second to afaict light up No Man's Wharf, after which I realized a) I really didn't need to do that and b) oh shit, these are consumables? But you're limited to how many you can find or buy, for some reason, which, like the magic branch, imposes a pointless obstacle to progress for no good reason and with no easy/cheap remedy.

Also been finding more and more glitches, usually to my benefit. One of the Ruin Bosses refused to fight me and just kept backing up. A couple of other enemies have gotten stick in corners and stuff. Just kind of slapdash all around, which is surprising, given how fine-tuned all the other From games are, and besides, this edition is *already* a redux version, you'd think it would be less janky.

OK, so I watched a walkthrough, and afaict you used to be required to fight the gargoyles to get a key, but now you get the key without fighting them, plus (again, afaict) if you do use a rare Pharros Keystone to fight them, you get next to no rewards beyond maybe ... early access to the Dragon Tooth club, if that's something you want? That's some poor game design. Now every since time I come across a Pharros lock I'll need to look up whether it is worth wasting it.

Skeleton Lords was a dumb boss fight that kind of underscores the problem with this installment, namely that I presume it was designed as a "gotcha" boss: there's a 10 second gap or so between taking out a Lord (which is easy) and spawning an overwhelming mass of lil' skeletons. Obviously it's only a surprise the first time - the gotcha. And then the second time you know to kill the Lords one at a time, then the skeletons, then a Lord, then the skeletons, etc. It's not hard at all, and all it has going for it is that early gotcha. This seems tied in to the game's BS for the sake of BS; it doesn't make it harder, per se, just more of a pain in the ass, which I don't recall so much in other From games. Plus this one remains technologically wonky, which is to say, *accidentally* difficult. I summoned both spirits to take on the Lost Sinner, just to speed things up, and it's remarkable how much I was somehow damaged by its moveset just standing around watching the NPCs tank it. Didn't help that I was accidentally wielding the wrong weapon, which looked similar to my primary.

How Dark Souls 2 ended up such a mess compared to the other games is a mystery, especially since they fixed and changed a whole bunch of stuff for Scholar of the First Sin and yet it's *still* messy. (I still like the game, it's just so far the worst designed of the whole bunch.)

I'm about to fight the Chariot, which seems like another gimmick, not least because they have an OP NPC phantom with a giant sword guarding the door to the boss.

IIRC Miyazaki and his team only had tangential involvement with this installment, resulting in some of the rougher edges and weird continuity stuff. I quite like its idiosyncracies, it's a bit like Super Mario Bros 2, a slightly strange but nonetheless lovable step-child.

Ugh, this path to the Chariot is such a pain in the ass. I can't wait for all these enemies to stop respawning, because the couple of times in the Chariot arena alone have been annoying enough.

Chariot down. What a dumb boss.

Dark Souls 2 is like one of those Hollywood remakes where the hotshot director thinks they know what made the original good, but then changes or messes with it.

I think one reason I'm enjoying DS2, for all my complaints, is that it's so weirdly all over the place in terms of difficulty that I rarely take it that seriously. That is, lots of common enemies that are (so far) waaaay harder than the bosses. I'm at Harvest Valley, and all the enemies are totally overpowered, and everything is poison, or hard to see, or both. Even the bonfires are essentially poison, which is perverse. So there have been a lot of suicide runs, which are less of any issue since I remembered I had the Ring of Binding, which reduces the health bar decline.

And that Jabba the hut boss at the end of the poison mess was possibly the most pointlessly easy boss in any From game.

Feeling sheepish about the fact that I’m on track to win DS1 for the third time on Switch— my first win was straight DEX, second win was sorcery, this one is Pyromancy which has been fun both in PvE and PvP, handling all invaders handily. I understand poise now! My char is wearing Knight leggings, Eastern gloves, Dust Crown. Dingy top when I want security and Antiquated when I want to look fashion

And yet I’ve never played any other From games. I’m a Nintendo house. So I bit the bullet and ordered a PS4 for Christmas w the trilogy and Bloodborne. Should I just skip DS2 entirely?

Way to go fgti, I love to see it! A lot of people like DS2, but it's definitely the odd one out. Brighter colors, different animation style, just a different feel than all the other games. It's my least favorite and I would go for DS3 or Bloodborne first, but who knows, maybe you'll love it. Although since you love Breath of the Wild, it seems like Elden Ring is going to be your game.

Aw Josh, I really liked the Chariot gimmick boss. Maybe because there are multiple ways to win (just rolling under the spiked wheels, or running to the safe alcoves and fighting the enemies in close quarters there (and eventually the boss), or running the opposite way and letting him run into the pit iirc).

The giant fat slug boss has to be a joke or a fake out, right? I think there's another boss after that (the poison queen) that's more of a real fight.

xpost DS3 and Bloodborne rule, they're the best of the bunch, imo. DS2 really does feel like a cheap knockoff.

The Chariot boss in DS2 is like the 4th boss where the fight/challenge is about everything *but* the boss.

I mean… I like BOTW because it’s the depressing Zelda, you know? Watching previews for Elden Ring, I’m hesitant in my enthusiasm.

If I can nail down what I adore about DS1, it’s the synergy between research and play. One of my favouritest games is ADOM. You can play it, but to advance, you need to do some research. Picking the Master Key in DS1 is like rerolling for Candle birth sign in ADOM. All the awkward layouts in DS1 felt similar— yes, you have to risk death-by-falling any time you want to go from New Londo to Blighttown; yes, same with that awkward ladder ledge between the hydra lake and Darkroot Garden. Yes, you have to consult a guide to figure out about the Rusty Ring, just like you had to consult an FAQ to figure out where to find a boar skull for the witch so you could fulfill the convoluted requirements for an Ultra ending in ADOM. It feels fiddly and like “research” and that’s what I like about DS1. So excited for the others. Wish Demon’s Souls was available for PS4

Bloodborne may be the best of the bunch, from a gameplay and design standpoint, and DS3 is kinda like they recognized what made Bloodborne the best and applied it to the DS model. Sekiro is the biggest detour, though still very much a From game.

Ok yeah, I don't know if any of the other games fully capture the magic of the Dark Souls world design - that top-to-bottom interconnectedness where there are so many different ways to go and break sequence in the first half of the game. Maybe Bloodborne comes the closest? Demon's Souls has the most freedom on the surface since you can select any area through the archstones, but they're not seamlessly joined. And Dark Souls 3 has a few branching paths, as well as large areas that are nice and twisty with shortcuts, but on the whole it's more linear (but my favorite for the pvp). And because it was my first one I had the same experience with deep research, and loved the sense of inscrutability.

My hope for Elden Ring is that it has that same sense of possibility to go in many directions at the start of the game, with the intricate level design once you get there.

I stupidly infused a raw stone to my +8 mace and I think nerfed my strength scaling. And of course there is no easy way to reverse it. Groan.

that top-to-bottom interconnectedness where there are so many different ways to go and break sequence in the first half of the game

I think most of the second-half of DS1, once warp is enabled, is pretty garbagio. Repeat Demon/Lost Izalith/Bed Of Chaos is hilariously stupid, and I can't stand Duke's Archives/Crystal Cave/Bald Dragon. Every time I've done the Lordvessel thing I kinda sigh about what I've got left to do-- aside from the fantastic DLC the second half of the game is such a let-down

But it's mostly because the first half is so so so amazing. There's nothing really like being with Andre and thinking "ok I need to get to the forest cats" or "I need to get to the rat farm in the Depths" and running a little Mapquest in your head about which route is the most efficient.

Totally. It's kinda sad that they're apparently never going to make another game without fast travel.

Apparently in Elden Ring it's at least possible to get anywhere (or most places) in the world without warping, so you can exercise restraint and not use it, but I imagine it's going to take hella long. On the other hand you at least want to travel somewhere by foot/horse the first time, to catch all the stuff in the overworld.

I'm kind of curious how streamers are going to manage walkthroughs with an open world game featuring secrets and tricks in every single vast nook and cranny.

I think the most annoying aspect unique to this game so far is the seemingly unlimited aggro range of enemies. Not only does it make it more or less impossible to run through most bullshit, since you reach your destination with a dozen enemies trailing right behind you, but you can't really kite them anymore, either. I realized there was something I missed in No Man's Wharf, so went back and (inevitably) died do to sloppy impatience, with 10+ souls left behind. I want to retrieve that, so I cautiously make my way back to the point above where I died (after getting overwhelmed by three guys with swords, four dogs, etc.). This time I decide to take out the dogs from above with my bow, so shoot at a couple until I lose track and try to find another enemy to snipe. But while I'm looking, these stupid (smart) dogs had I guess snuck off into a nearby building, ascended a few flights of stairs, and somehow homed in on me at my remote perch and killed me before I could even switch back to my melee weapon. That's some hilariously overpowered aggro range.

Another new thing: non-boss areas behind fog gates. Does this feature in any of the other games? Anyway, I was unhollowed and had summoned a couple of NPCs to follow me around poisonville while I explored. One fog gate near the summons had brought me to a bonfire, so the next time I saw a fog gate I went through with my NPC buds, but this one *was* a boss. Medusa. She was pretty easy, given I knew to light the windmill on fire first, which had I not known that would have possibly made it the biggest bit of From bullshit yet. I think next up is Iron Keep, which iirc is another notorious bit of frustrating BS.

Fog gates to nothing in particular are in most/?all of the games that have fog gates

they definitely existed in DS1, they work as pvp invasion zone delimiters

Weird, I don't remember them at all. Wait, now that I think of it I do remember them a few times, but usually right after a boss, not just randomly found within a single zone, which was the case in Earthen Peak. All it lead to was an isolated bonfire.