Do You Know How to POLLtz?: ILM Artist Poll #111 - Low

Do You Know How To Waltz is crushing.

I listened to Secret Name, Things We Lost In the Fire, and The Curtain Hits the Cast this afternoon, and I think I figured out why I never revisit anything earlier than Trust. They're quiet and mopey, but the punch to the gut is more subtle. Trust and onward tend to be more obviously sinister musically.

I'd argue that their lyrics are just as sinister, if not more sinister, on the early records, though the music is certainly less so.

The early stuff works best as albums to me. Everything from Secret Name on feels like a scattershot collection of songs with 3-4 highlights. I like them all, but they don't make for the most cohesive listening experiences (the most recent two are better in this regard). Like Trust is song for song one of their strongest albums, but it's excruciating to listen to straight through.

Ranked Curtain and Dead Pilot high, but I'm having trouble finding songs from them to put on my ballot. Whereas Things We Lost in the Fire isn't one of their better albums to me, but I can easily pick 4-5 songs from it.

Ranked Curtain and Dead Pilot high, but I'm having trouble finding songs from them to put on my ballot

One thing this poll has clarified for me is just how highly I rate "Stars Gone Out"

All I know is that this band is responsible for a disproportionate number of songs and albums that, while I'm listening to them, make me say to myself , this is the best music ever made.

Nabozo, what about Secret Name don't you like? "Two-Step"? "Weight of Water"? "Starfire"? "Will the Night?"?

I dunno, I love that record.

― I'm a sovereign jizz citizen (the table is the table), Monday, 8 November 2021 20:28 (two hours ago) link

Secret Name strikes me as the album which is maybe hardest to pin down. On the one hand - perhaps even more than Things We Lost - it feels like it contains a lot of the seeds of future directions the band would explore, and it's a very diverse record. On the other, "Don't Understand" (and maybe "Home") aside, it feels like their warmest and gentlest and (at least at times) perhaps deliberately-smallest record until The Invisible Way (which to me feels like it contains a few callbacks).

Meanwhile the vocals are often quite startling, in particular Alan's frequent use of high falsetto.

"i remember" is in line with the darker sound of "don't understand" and "home", but then there's things like "starfire" which feels more directly indebted to galaxie 500 than anything they'd done before

Yep - agree with that.

trust is kinda the mirror image of secret name, they both capture a fairly similar (though also quite wide) range of styles, but trust ends up emphasising the darker sounds over secret name's preference for the light

my favourite from those first six albums is certainly the curtain hits the cast, which keeps the darkness consistently at 'dim campfire in the night' levels

Secret Name (and Songs for a Dead Pilot) is the big pivot point for the band - the one where they figured out how to free themselves from their own sound without sacrificing their perspective. It’s still “Low” but they stopped being pristine. The production is raw, Alan becomes a much more courageous singer, and Mimi allows a few cracks to show in her otherwise flawless voice. And they push the limits on what they’re “supposed” to sound like (Don’t Understand).

They made many records that are better but Secret Name feels in a way like their most important album— they learned how to transcend themselves.

This bit from the end of glenn mcdonald's review of Things We Lost... reads as very prescient now:

"They aren't the first band to make the long journey from isolationism to expansiveness, and they haven't traveled as far as Mark Hollis (surely the name "Hollis" is a coincidence?), but in both relative magnitude and unexpectedness, Low and Talk Talk's journeys seem comparable to me, demonstrations of the inexorable power of an artist's patience, and the profound rewards for a listener's. Secret Name seemed like an end-point, and then Christmas seemed like an epilogue, but now I'm not so sure. After Things We Lost in the Fire, it all feels like part of one long story to me again, and one that is far from over.

And therein, maybe, is the explanation I was looking for, for how I feel while I listen to it, half thinking I have more than enough information to make up my mind, half thinking that I'm missing something critical. On one hand, if Alan and Mimi decided to quit music now and raise Hollis as organic farmers or innkeepers or border guards, I think they've done enough to secure their place. Many have lived forever on less. On the other hand, though, if there was this much immanent in Secret Name that they didn't yet know how to express, then it's insane to think that Things We Lost in the Fire is the end, either. If the distance from I Could Live in Hope to Things We Lost in the Fire isn't as great as the distance from Talk Talk to Mark Hollis, maybe that only means Low are that far from done. And if that's so, or that's what it feels more true to believe, then maybe the uncertainty I'm experiencing is my instinctive respect for incompletion. You don't clap in the middle of a song, just because you like the first half so much. So Low aren't one of my favorite bands yet, not because I don't believe they will be, but because what these records have earned from me isn't capitulation or acclaim, it's presence. No banners yet. Parades? Maybe when Hollis is older. For now, just pay attention. If you want to give them a gift, give them more silence to fill. There's nobody into whose care I'd rather silence be entrusted."

But what I had in fact been looking for was the following extract from his Secret Name review which I think gets at the point being made about the album above:

"Trying to convey the experience by describing it is inherently hopeless, of course. Low has spent six albums retreating, and I've followed them, getting closer and closer because it was the only way to hear them at all, and from farther away Secret Name's explosion of noise would probably barely sound like a fizzle. Buzzing that wouldn't qualify as background texture in a Prodigy rant sounds, in a Low song, like the Earth methodically sawing itself in half. These drums won't crash, in your ears, unless you've internalized the way Mimi usually taps them. If you haven't heard how she can making not singing sound tenser than singing, the tiny rasps as she leans into the lines of "Days Of..." won't sound like the hibernating dragon at the heart of the world gradually shrugging off sleep. A thousand other bands have hired string sections; if you don't know how empty these spaces in Low songs would have been before, you won't stagger when you hear strings materialize in them. You've heard other Steve Albini recordings, perhaps (and I used to think I didn't like him, but between this and Vent 414's album I realize that position has become firmly untenable), but you can't appreciate from them what an accomplishment it is to find nuances in Low's performances that escaped their previous producers (including themselves)."

Yeah, wonderfully put. And the last couple of albums prove there is no end to the journey in sight.

yeah, i love both of those quotes. i came to them late, in the things we lost/trust time-frame, so even great destroyer sounded like some sort of betrayal to me. they have always been changing from the beginning, while always retaining their low-ness. that's extremely hard to do, although easier to do for a duo that are both incredible singers

Their path reminds me a bit of Depeche Mode, who after a few albums with roughly the same sound, worked with a variety of producers and produced a much wider spectrum of music while keeping a specific identity. DM have stubbornly stuck to the same producer for the last few albums, maybe feeling comfortable, and I wonder if Low will stick with Burton for a fourth album (Low's recent albums are magnitudes better than DM's)

they've already said they want to stick with burton for their next one too, obviously they could change their minds before then but they really seem to love working with him

Makes sense, it's a very fruitful partnership, and they haven't repeated themselves with him yet

Yeah listening to Double Negative and Hey What back-to-back really underscored for me the differences in approach between the two, which can be obscured by the fact that sonically they're obviously closer to one another than they are to any of the band's previous albums.

Nabozo, what about Secret Name don't you like? "Two-Step"? "Weight of Water"? "Starfire"? "Will the Night?"?
I dunno, I love that record.

― I'm a sovereign jizz citizen (the table is the table), Monday, 8 November 2021 20:28 (two hours ago) link

It's by comparison. I miss the electricity, gravity and personality of their other records. Secret Name sounds like slowcore. Mopey yes, plodding, pretty in a boring and precious sense, slowness is excruciating, too spare and simple. I think I like Immune best. I cannot analyze their directions as others can, but it's an incarnation that would have killed my expectations.

I really commend Glenn’s Low reviews generally. They run from Long Division to Trust and are the reason I was initially interested in the band (though I took a long time to actually get across their entire discography) - and start off more like actual reviews and then become increasingly personal and reflective, which I think reflected both a development of Glenn’s style and a development in his relationship with Low. But also, even if it wasn’t a true causal factor, that transformation feels like it reflects something in Low’s music, considered as a developing whole, the way that all of it has acquired lustre and depth and meaning and resonance through accumulation, as each decision they make underscores the deliberateness and importance of each prior decision.

I miss the electricity, gravity and personality of their other records. Secret Name sounds like slowcore. Mopey yes, plodding, pretty in a boring and precious sense, slowness is excruciating, too spare and simple. I think I like Immune best. I cannot analyze their directions as others can, but it's an incarnation that would have killed my expectations.

― Nabozo, Monday, November 8, 2021 11:53 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

This is perhaps one of the most wrong opinions I've ever read about this band.

the part where mimi comes in on two-step is one of the most transcendent musical moments i now of

i know

the back half of secret name is not my favorite. when i think of that album, i guess, i'm thinking that incredible first 20 minutes or so, and i admit that i probably just need to listen to the second half more often. it's almost impossible to not be wiped out by the first side, though, that's the thing. it's an all-timer side for me

I really need to list to the studio work more. I mean, I have all the CDs but I keep losing myself in all those great live recordings on archive.org

like many of you, maybe, i'm doing a big ol' chronological listen. and i'm remembering how good "pissing" is, from The Great Destroyer

might need to make my display name "another secret name fan boy"

This is perhaps one of the most wrong opinions I've ever read about this band.
― I'm a sovereign jizz citizen (the table is the table), Tuesday, November 9, 2021 6:20 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

It probably sounds harsh said like that, and I would immediately nuance it because I find the band still very consistent, but you asked why I liked that album less. Mind you, I still have a couple days and the time beyond the poll to refine those opinions based on first impressions.

the back half of secret name is not my favorite. when i think of that album, i guess, i'm thinking that incredible first 20 minutes or so, and i admit that i probably just need to listen to the second half more often. it's almost impossible to not be wiped out by the first side, though, that's the thing. it's an all-timer side for me

― just staying (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 10 November 2021 05:15 (four hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Feel like both Secret Name and Things We Lost... have this issue (though both close strongly), though in different ways or for different reasons.

While Things We Lost may be the more consistent album the issue is perhaps heightened because "Sunflowers" and "Dinosaur Act" feel like such monumental pop songs.

Trust feels stronger and more consistent than both to me, even though its general reputation is the opposite of that.

Not going to vote as don’t have enough in depth knowledge of theirs catalogue. However that cover of Rihanna’s ‘Stay’, OMG! One for the ages, just incredible. Thanks to table is the table for posting this.

I can’t vote because I love them too much to rank them. But I will say that “In Metal” has brought me to tears multiple times.

i'm doing a quick chronological listen this week before voting. i really want to appreciate more from their great destroyer - invisible way era, i really do. that's when i dropped off listening to them, in real time, and i was hoping to find a bunch of gems. but apart from a few tracks (violent past, murderer, plastic cup, when i go deaf) i just really have a hard time with that era. i don't like fridmann's production much, although low makes him sound better than most bands can.

with c'mon and invisible way...i don't know. they're certainly not bad, and it's interesting to think about what i would think of them if they hadn't released all of their other albums, if they were the only Low albums. i'd probably love them. maybe i'm just reading too much into sparhawk's battles with depression and suicidal thoughts, but to me they _sound_ like depression, and not in any sort of good way. depression can be like a heavy blanket, partly comforting but a real physical force on your body and thoughts. you're still the same person, you just don't move as much and everything becomes compromised before it even escapes from the brain. sparhawk seems to be an incredibly functional depressed person, but it takes its toll on everyone.

^a bunch of speculative bullshit in that paragraph, sorry.

bj burton must put magic tablets in everyone's tea, because i'm giving Ones and Sixes a good listen now for the first time in a while and it's just like they were able to find their way back to themselves.

Good god this is proving to be hard. I've loved them for so long but never attempted to rank my favorites. I have a list of 50 or so I need to cut down and order

because i love so many of their songs, i'm kinda rooting for all of them and decided not to worry too much about the ranking or where they end up in the rollout.

This was really tough! In the end I went with the approach of only voting for songs that I can immediately call to mind from the title, which had the effect of mostly limiting it to pre-early 2000s material. (I love the last couple of albums too, but for whatever reason - perhaps just changes in how I listen to music - I can't match a single song to a title.)

But it was still really hard to get down to 30, and I also have very little idea what will be in the top 10, a couple of songs aside.

I can get a ballot up by the end of the weekend, but I also wouldn't mind having until the next Friday. Anyone else needs more time ?

Yeah, a two week deadline can be difficult if you're doing a deep dive into the catalog.

did we ever decide to do 50 instead of 30? or is it still 30?

"I Hear...Goodnight" is so beautiful, sigh. I'd forgotten.

Another song title with ellipsis that i re-encountered just now after not hearing it for years: "...I Love", which is so sweet it got me choked up.

yeah was also struck by “I hear…goodnight” this morning listening to that ep

going through the box now and man, most of those “curtain”-era non-album tracks are so killer, eg “turning over” and “tear down”

agreed

oh funny my ballot is exactly at 50 rn

I sent 45 tracks and left the decision up to ufo how many to use

I can get a ballot up by the end of the weekend, but I also wouldn't mind having until the next Friday. Anyone else needs more time ?
― Nabozo, Thursday, November 11, 2021

even earlier than the end of the weekend on the us west coast! I started late, may not get one in in time

I have been enjoying going back and listening to Low albums from the beginning, though!

i'm happy to extend the voting period as needed, i'll see how people are doing in a few days.

i think at this point it doesn't seem likely that there'll be enough 50 track ballots to really be worth including in full though, sorry to those that were interested in that

I'll take the opportunity to recommend (as I probably have other times here) that everyone be sure to hear the 'Bombscare' EP from 2000 before they sumbit their ballots.

I loved them a lot before that--'Secret Name' had been the latest obsession, and the first album had been too. But 'Bombscare' was an incredible thrill, and the first time I really knew Low could do anything they wanted. It's the direct forerunner of 'Drums and Guns,' 'Double Negative,' and 'Hey What'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRoIbBbJx4U

can't really get my mind around a Low ballot but I finally saw Alan Sparhawk's Neil Young cover band last night and it was such an amazing show. didn't know "Powderfinger" could still get to me like that.

^very jealous

Just working on my ballot. I'm glancing at a songlist rather than doing a big re-listen though.

I recommend anyone who's doing a last-minute ballot to give 'Soon' a listen - such a beautiful track. I'm not sure what it's actually about, but its always a source of comfort for me in difficult times - often it'll slip into my head - "soon it will be over" yes - thank you - i needed to hear that Low.

didn't know "Powderfinger" could still get to me like that.

oh dang, i'd love to see that