On Djing...

the nice thing about mixing poppy dance music is that you can cut to a different bpm track at the end of a riser/drop and sound good easily. don't know how you do it from one track-y dance thing into another without some clunkiness.

― Linda and Jodie Rocco (map), Saturday, 6 November 2021

hip hop style mixing, meine junge! wack the crossfader und scratch the bit you want to mix in, then spin back first track if you want to. Sasha style mixing is a CIA psyop.

My Pioneer controller has RCA outs, and I have RCA to XLR cables.

The few times I've had to use CDJs I've always been nervous and looked up the manual and dumb tutorial videos to make sure I remember the deal. I've also used a controller/laptop a couple times even when they were an option, but have resolved not to do that in the future. :)

Also you can still twerk with both hands on the table. Well, I can't, but some can.

stir I have not had any issues with my Dragonfly so far, and it's been maybe 4 years or more? fingers crossed I guess.

wow! i have got through 10+ in that time. expensive! i'm starting to think i may have a DAC curse on me.

that is insane, you should talk to the company!

i should.

Unless there's a good reason for it (like it's a vintage music night or whatever) I feel that "strictly vinyl only" is broadly a form of gatekeeping that I'm against. The price of buying decks and mixers to practice on is way out of reach for most people, let alone buying vinyl all the time. Plus a lot of the music I play out has never and will never get released on a hard format.

The other day though I did decide to purchase some needles (even those were mad pricey) as I really fancied playing records at a night I was putting on in a nice cocktail bar. Really enjoyed it. I cant say I'm seasoned enough to mix records together, so it was more about finding nice segues between eclectic styles. But yeah, really vinyl mixing is a very different beast to digital mixing.

The weird thing about some CDJs is they don't accept WAVs, and I don't think hardly any of them play FLACs which is super annoying.

I like the idea of testing out the CDJs. Were they Pioneer? What were some things you figured out about them?

I'm trying to get better at mixing to different tempos rather than just blithely going up the BPM column as I'm wont to do.

I'm curious about what you mean by this

It's not a million miles from the Serato controller/laptop set up I have at home, but the layout is different and there's a slightly different tactility to it. I almost exclusively use hot cues at home and rarely touch the Cue button. The CDJs I were using did have Hot Cues but it's a bit fiddly and so I was mostly getting used to how the Cue works.

The other main thing was really how to get my crates from Serato onto a USB so that the CDJs understand it. So, with a lot of trial and error, here's what I learnt:

- Make sure your USB is formatted to Fat32 - not MacOS or ExFat. It took me ages to work this out.
- you may want to retitle your tracks so the tempo/key information is in there, e.g. "114 4A - Talking Heads - Once In A Lifetime", that way the info will be there when it comes to CDJing. Not essential though.
- in Serato, in the File section, copy my crate(s) onto the USB
- use Rekordbuddy2 to analyse them so that my hot cue info is on there (there is a tutorial on YouTube)
- use Rekordbox to analyse the tracks. Can take a while.
- Organise the tracks in tempo order by using the column headers, then (and this is very important) right-click on the track number column header and select Renumber (I think that's right). So what this does is it makes sure your tracks appear in Tempo order when you plug in the stick.
- Now make sure you export the playlist(s) back onto the stick. If you don't do this, nothing will work.

That all took me an hour to work out and I really wish I'd known about it beforehand because for the life of me I couldn't find any sort of online guide to show me and it was all very upsetting.

As for the BPM thing: digital DJing is very handy because it lets you sort your tracks by tempo. This is wonderful, especially when you're starting, because it means you can start slow and gradually up the tempo each time you drop a track. If course tempo isn't everything though: you might have two complementary sounding tracks that are in totally different tempos, so you can't just beatmatch them and do a smooth blend. Also, this thing of just gradually going up the tempos can make for kind of samey transitions and I'm getting a bit bored of this. So I'm trying to teach myself ways to really think about how tunes might fit together well even if they're out of step, and come up with more creative ways to mix them together.

Sorry, maybe I should have split that long post up into three separate ones.

ugh, that's good to know about FLAC since a large portion of my tracks are in that format, looks like I may have to convert them over or re-download in a different format

Yeah. I don't know if it's the case across the board but I think even Rekordbox doesn't support Flac and it's really puzzling

Rekordbox definitely supports FLAC, which is why I'm surprised so many of their CDJs do not

Ah okay. I was sure it would warn me if I had FLACs in a playlist but maybe I'm wrong

It might warn you since they are compatible with other hardware

I feel that "strictly vinyl only" is broadly a form of gatekeeping that I'm against.

do you mean if a night is being promoted as "strictly vinyl only" or if someone happens to be playing just vinyl.

if the former i'm with you 100% but i don't think playing only vinyl is gatekeeping.

Yeah the former. No problem with vinyl DJs or people who want to play vinyl, that's cool. But there's a strain of DJ snobbery that looks down on digital DJing as "not proper DJing" and it sucks. Plus, you know, people are there to dance and hear good music and that's the point

yes, absolutely. i'm pretty sure 99.999999% of people on a dancefloor couldn't care less whether it was vinyl or digital.

It's sometimes fun to have a formal constraint - like I've heard radio shows that are '45s only!' or whatever and it's can be a simple way to nudge people into dusty back alleys of their collections they might have otherwise forgotten about. Though I agree in general, certainly if served up with a side helping of snobbery/elitism. Maybe there should be a 'sourced from Limewire only!!' show or two.

Haha I was joking only the other day that I want to put on a night which is strictly 128kbps and below. Preferably RealAudio rips

There are definitely exceptions to the vinyl rule and I know a few fantastic vinyl only nights. But man, if it's a night of new electronic dance music, don't force everyone to play on vinyl

A couple of times when I was DJ-ing a weekly disco set on vinyl, problems with one of the decks meant that I had to "mix" (hmmm...) between the one good vinyl deck and the emergency backup offline Spotify playlist on my iPhone. I left the same 12" on the malfunctioning deck for the rest of the night, because I thought it looked better. On both occasions, NOBODY noticed or commented - so much for purism!

lmao

ha - i had that exact experience at a club that was very uptight about vinyl/"no computers!", nobody cared. people are too busy dancing to give a shit.

As for the BPM thing: digital DJing is very handy because it lets you sort your tracks by tempo. This is wonderful, especially when you're starting, because it means you can start slow and gradually up the tempo each time you drop a track. If course tempo isn't everything though: you might have two complementary sounding tracks that are in totally different tempos, so you can't just beatmatch them and do a smooth blend. Also, this thing of just gradually going up the tempos can make for kind of samey transitions and I'm getting a bit bored of this. So I'm trying to teach myself ways to really think about how tunes might fit together well even if they're out of step, and come up with more creative ways to mix them together.

― Urbandn hope all ye who enter here (dog latin), Sunday, November 7, 2021 10:57 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

I think my next mix has to be title Carry On Up The BPMs

unpopular opinion time. I have heard so many amazing mixes in a variety of styles (long blends, quick cuts, scratching, bpm defying genre-hopping, etc) that mixing skills no longer impresses me or interests me if they're done on a machine. What excites me is the depth of knowledge of the DJ (are they playing one genre, all current songs, or mixing styles and eras), and admittedly this is superficial and pointless, but I actually care more if the DJ has the music they are playing on vinyl. I'd rather be in a small room with a dj mixing across genres, tempos, and years, with physical copies of the music they're playing. I'm not going out to lose myself in the rhythm and dance for 8hrs anymore. I just want to hear some good tunes, and envy the record collection of the DJ selecting and mixing the music. Yes my opinion is superficial and dumb. Anybody can amass an amazing collection of music on mp3 and mix it brilliantly with a USB controller, and at this point, i don't give a shit about any of those mixes / DJs.

i hear that. i will admit to being one of those "vinyl sounds better" guys, even though i decided to go digital instead for practical purposes. i feel like i've never had the reaction of "cool track but why does it sound like shit" when someone is playing all vinyl. it can be scratchy or have surface noise or whatever but the range is friendly, it never has that piercing mid-high end that echoes on concrete walls and hurts your ears. i still get that from time to time when it's digital. i used to be gung-ho about compression being the source of the problem but i think it's a number of factors, including the room. there's something about the limited range from top to bottom of vinyl that's just friendlier to most spaces imo.

vinyl also makes sense when your city has a decent record store presence. not just new stuff but big stores of old stuff. that becomes part of the fabric, this whole wealth of material access that record stores bring. my city is shit with no real record stores and you're always ordering all of your records online anyway, which is such a slog imo compared to having a good or at least decent record store to go to.

I'm also envious of a nice record collection, but it's simply not financially viable for me to go down that path right now. Being able to do this all digitally opens up so many possibilities for me. I'm able to make the mixes I always dreamed about. Is it easier? Absolutely. But I think simplifying some of the more tedious or expensive aspects is an open invitation to get more creative and do things I wouldn't be able to do on vinyl.

the utter lack of a solid record store is a big issue here as well

xp

I do think there must be tons of unearthed vinyl from the past 30+ years still waiting to be discovered, but I have no idea how to find it

I just want to hear some good tunes, and envy the record collection of the DJ selecting and mixing the music.

but how would you even know? i sometimes play all vinyl, sometimes mostly digital and more often some combination of the two. unless someone was standing right next to me i think it would be almost impossible to know what i was actually playing.

i have approx 60 000 records but probably never take more than around 50 out to a gig. lots of the digital i play is high quality rips of my own records so aren't they still my collection?

Anybody can amass an amazing collection of music on mp3 and mix it brilliantly with a USB controller, and at this point, i don't give a shit about any of those mixes / DJs.

Counterpoint, I'm mostly obsessed with new music, and most of what I like doesn't get pressed to vinyl (nor should it imo). I'd rather hear an mp3 of an edit someone just made or a self-mastered dub than some obscure discogs curio.

Btw I think most/all CDJs should be able to play wavs, BUT I did learn a tough lesson recently that the older ones can't play certain bitrates. I had been accidentally bouncing my tracks down to 32-bit wavs and heard from some djs that they wouldn't load, so I had to re-do them all in 24-bit and it worked.

I think it's pretty simple to see what the DJ is playing. They either have a laptop, CDJ's with a USB stick, or they're using vinyl. Typically it isn't a mystery what format the DJ is playing. I'm admitting my opinion isn't rational, but it's my opinion. I'd rather see you pull out the orange sleeve Looking From A Hilltop 12" than scroll down your playlist and select the file for Looking From A Hilltop. Ultimately, it doesn't matter. Fun nights are fun nights and what format the DJ uses is completely irrelevant to the quality of the night. I'm stating, as one person, what my preference is. You can disagree, and I expect nearly everyone to disagree.

yep i thought it was mostly the bitrate that was the issue xp

They either have a laptop, CDJ's with a USB stick, or they're using vinyl.

most club setups have cjds and turntables though so you have to be a real fact-checkin bro and get up to the booth to verify the source of what is playing. even then though, a table could be spinning but you don't know for sure where the sound is coming from! it is actually really hard to know unless you're in the booth looking at the mixer.

It does suck that file management is such a large part of digital djing, but I prefer that to being a vinyl guy with massive shelves and endless boxes at home.

Fwiw I do think mixing on vinyl is cool and very impressive when done well, though!

FYI, the last 20 - 30 times I DJ'd, I mostly used a laptop and Traktor. It's so much easier, more convenient, and at least my mixing is more reliable / skilled when using a controller / files than when I use vinyl. The last 2 shows I played, I actually packed my turntables and brought two record boxes. Nobody gave a shit that I played vinyl. There were no saddos gawking at my RARE VINYLS. It was more effort to pack, setup and unpack when using vinyl. Refiling records after a show sucks. I get it. I'm just saying, for me personally, perfectly beatmatched, in key mixes, running off a laptop or CDJs do nothing for me.

I don't know, it's pretty simple to see if the DJ is using vinyl or not. Maybe the clubs you're visiting obscure the DJ. BTW, i'm not running in to the show and checking to see what the DJ is using. It's usually obvious if it's vinyl or not, and it's almost never vinyl these days. I'm not going to have a bad time if it's CDJs/Laptop. Just stating a preference. Please keep pointing out minor quibbles with my already stated unpopular opinion, however. It's useful.

yawn.

my 2 c

i don't get the "more work is more 'rewarding'" angle. you're playing your favorite songs ffs, act like it! dance around! be a freak! perform a little bit, you're an entertainer not a "beat matcher". if you don't have to scramble for another record to put on, enjoy the music, not your labor, which whether you're mixing vinyl or sync'ed up digital is still one of the most eye-rollingly boring and easy things to do in the world of music creation, one that literally no one gives a shit about except for yourself and other djs.

anyway i think it's fine to have strong opinions about all this it's what makes the world go round

I do get what brotherlovesdub is saying and map is also right: even at home there's a difference in frequency when playing a record on my turntable than playing an MP3. I just feel more involved with the sound.

Really it's down to the kind of night though, eh? Like, I play a lot of Afrobeats, Soca etc and that stuff isn't released on vinyl. But if it were a funk and soul night, it would be a bit disappointing if it were MP3s being mixed digitally. May as well put a Spotify playlist on

i'll confess to generally enjoying vinyl-centric nights vs digital ones but I'm also not going out to dance & sweat to new electronic music for the most part. which is why i think this debate is a lot of times an apples and oranges thing bc theres so many different kinds of parties & DJ nights.

like n.b. i'm old & tired, but i enjoy it when theres nights that are built around "so and so is a big obsessive collector of rare [niche genre] records and these are the gems of their collection", which is different from saddo oohing and aahing over their discogs stats, but will also mean that person will spin a... certainly not "better" but "different" set from someone putting together a set in that genre put together via files exclusively. its not 'realer' or more authentic or whatever, but imho just that both approaches each have their own unique capacities to bring out different eccentricities of the DJ & their selections.

After a show I played recently, there was a dj using Serato with linked video. It was all digital obv, but he was only playing 80s dancehall WITH all the original videos being projected. I was mildly skeptical when he was setting up but it was fun as hell.

I've been using DVS, which is like the worst of both worlds. No vinyl sound but also no automatic syncing. It's fun though. Auto-sync feels a bit like cheating, but if you're using the extra mental space- to add cool effects or mix more tracks at once or something, that's cool!

that sounds fun xp

Would attend

I stopped bringing my laptop to clubs after CDJs began supporting USB drives and got good search/playlist functions, mainly for two reasons: DJ booths can be dangerous places for laptops, and I eventually it felt dorky to stare at my computer during performance. (Serato face is nagl.)

I hate Pioneer more than Apple. Their pricing and model of planned obsolescence is atrocious. The lack of support for FLAC on any but their most expensive decks is indefensible at this point. Their reps on the forums are dickish about requests for it, likening it to a "premium feature" like you'd find in a BMW. Denon CDJs would be a better industry standard, but Pioneer is what we get.

Vinyl is cool, I'd buy more of it if I still had a lucrative job. I wouldn't say it sounds "better," but I appreciate its characterful sound. Counterintuitively, I'd say the best argument for it is one of its limitations: you can't brickwall things to hell on a vinyl pressing. I'll bring a crate to any gig that has working turntables, but that's increasingly rare.

Shit, gigs out are increasingly rare! It's a footloose situation here in Honolulu. Venues limited to 50% capacity and groups must stay at their tables, prohibited from "intermingling." I hope that ends this month when City & County revisits their COVID response plan.

yeah, numbers just had a huge bump here today. that + approaching winter means less activity than usual.

UK is just back to normal. They don't even ask for a Covid passport, nothing. They've given up. Mind you it does mean a return to dancing but hmmm

so clearly at some point I'll have to convert or re-download all the FLACs that I have if I ever want to use a CDJ system. What file format, bitrate, etc. should I use to get the best combination of sound quality, features, versatility? Note that I am using a Windows PC to manage files, so I don't know if that rules out AIFF or not.