There are "genre novels" and "genre films". Is there "genre music"?

It's definitely a genre in Alaska; all the nerdy hippies go to Talkeetna for the bluegrass festival.

I was once standing outside the Talkeetna general store, reading a Missing! poster about someone's stolen hula hoop, when the owner of the hula hoop walked up and started talking to a friend. I knew this because I heard the friend say "Dude! Someone ganked your hoop?" That's Talkeetna.

These are good examples of "genre music" in the sense of music that conforms closely to genre tropes. But they're missing the second thing I had in mind, the critical disreputability.

I suppose that critical disreputability is hard to pin down, but I'd probably call truly formulaic NYHC, UK82, or, say, psytrance "disreputable" in the traditional sense of the term.

"Dude! Someone ganked your hoop?"

lmao this made my night, I think.

Stuff like Psychobilly (The Cramps etc) feels like this - acts that are self consciously playing music of a particular style, working with certain tropes and parameters, but then I start wondering if this is just a word for parody or pastiche. Dance music too? Like people who make just jungle or just dubstep

acts that are self consciously playing music of a particular style, working with certain tropes and parameters

That’s, like, the Tarantino equivalent, right? “Genre” in quotes.

This is the true genre stuff, bands you never hear of unless you’re into the scene.

According to iTunes, all music is Blues

Anyway, the more interesting question is, is there any "non-genre music"?

Watching The Voice – I suppose “Contemporary worship music” (groups like this) is a genre with zero mainstream/critical respectability.

Even musical theater has its Hamilton…

I keep thinking of old Happy Hardcore tapes but not sure what the modern iteration would be

Odd, is this just coincidence. looking through my Spotify New Episodes list and see that the subject of this week's Adam Conover
podcast is How Genres Shape Music https://open.spotify.com/episode/1cSLGKJPhrnRlcf69PVP8g?si=4aaf98e85f114bcc

Anyway, the more interesting question is, is there any "non-genre music"?

― raven, Wednesday, October 27, 2021 5:18 AM (seven hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

I think the OP gets it right upthread where they say acts like Radiohead, Nirvana, Beyonce etc wouldn't really be called "genre" music even though they might get lumped in with grunge or indie or R'n'B or whatever; but ultimately they're not actively doing that music, they're just being themselves whereas, say, Mighty Mighty Bosstones or 3 Inches of Blood or Northern Uproar or the Darkness would definitely be called "Genre" bands

I feel like the Cramps need to be separated from all the psychobilly stuff that came later, they were really something savage and feral compared to, like, Rev Horton Heat etc

Kelefa Sanneh has a new book on genre out btw, looks good.

I was thinking about this in relation to 'modern' roots dub that I imagine largely exists in the eco-system of soundsystems. I assume it still exists, I haven't attended a dance for years.

All books are in a genre but when we speak of "genre fiction" we typically mean mystery, scifi, fantasy, etc.

I am not in the mood for saying anything prescriptive or dogmatic here, but the question makes me think of novelty music and niche tastes.

All music is in a genre but I would say that parody, for example, is a niche. Weird Al-style parody is a niche. Flight of the Conchords-style novelty or comedy music is a niche. Christmas (or other holiday) songs are a niche.

History songs like "Battle of New Orleans" or "North to Alaska" or "Green Berets" are a niche.

Songs that depend on a particular recording trick, like the Chipmunks or dogs barking "Jingle Bells"? A niche.

If you search any genre tag on Bandcamp you'll find an ocean of releases that stick rigidly to whatever the genre's formula is. Some might be good, some will be terrible, occasionally there'll be one that transcends the genre, but mostly you listen and think 'oh, it's another (genre) track'.

> This is the true genre stuff, bands you never hear of unless you’re into the scene.

Yes I have that Atomics record and was wondering the other day if anyone else had ever heard it. It's been at least 20 years since I played that CD. Rockabilly definitely ossified into tropes of flamey shirts and Betty Page haircuts in the 90s, so much so that it's not even much of a presence at garage rock fests of the Oh Sees / Ty Segall variety (which is critically acceptable) Stuff like the Cramps and Flat Duo Jets is transcendent, and had a critical cache for a long time, to say nothing of Link Wray or Billy Lee Riley. It's interesting to contemplate when a scene crosses a line that it becomes pathetic. Like, a break out LA Mexican American rockabilly band could totally bring the genre back, but ain't gonna happen with Fieri looking guys, even if Guy himself had a bit of a Bob Ross reassessment.

The ultimate answer to this, I think, is stoner metal bands: all the albums sound the same, devotees parse the barely perceptible differences between them and literally no one else on earth gives a shit. Nobody wakes up one morning and says, "I think I'll give stoner metal a shot: should I listen to Weedeater, Sea of Green, or Goatbong?"

uh...

i think if we're going to call stoner metal bands "genre music" then flat duo jets are definitely in that category

I don't think Stoner Metal is different than any ossified genre from Dixieland revival up to post-Skrillix dubstep in that regard.

were sort of talking about artists that exists beyond the Steve Forbert threshold

http://conqueso.com/nerd/forbert.html

Isn't a big part of "genre fiction" that a fan might not necessarily be familiar with the names of authors (although some would) but they could pick up, say, a bodice-ripper based solely on the genre and maybe the cover art and be satisfied with the (trite, generic) results?

In that case I nominate the bazillion "Chill Out Ibiza Volume XXX" compilations.

Anyway, the more interesting question is, is there any "non-genre music"?

Pop Music? Like there's trends and tropes, but it's essentially the musical equivalent of "Blockbuster Film".

Anyway, the more interesting question is, is there any "non-genre music"?

Sure, if we're running with the analogy to genre fiction, I guess the antipodes of genre music would either be "industry music" (pop music is not genre music due to the pretense of universal appeal) or "auteurist music" (music made with the implicit or explicit ambition of transcending its nominal genre).

I guess even most auteurist music could be put in a genre, though, right? Even if it’s “RIO” or just “Experimental”

(I also don’t think the “pretense of universal appeal” precludes genre. Lady Gaga is dance-pop, etc.)

Most Kubrick films are genre movies; he’s pretty “auteurist.” The exceptions may prove yr point, though (Lolita, Strangelove… is “dark comedy” a genre?)

Yeah, I don't disagree with any of that per se. To clarify what I was getting at above, sure "The Shining" is "file under horror" but I think it's safe to say that it's "made with the implicit or explicit ambition of transcending its nominal genre". So I think there's a difference between what we mean when we say "genre" in the sense of "file under x" and what we mean when we talk about, say, "a western" or "a romance novel".

For sure, I hear you there.

Top of my mind reggaeton - and reggae, ska, rocksteady and dancehall for the most part - are usually very confined to genre standards and most importantly rhythmic standards. If you deviate too much from let’s say in reggaeton from the dembow riddim you’re not in the genre’s boundaries anymore.

This video explaining the same chord progression but in ska, rocksteady and reggae rhythms is what I’m trying to exemplify:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0YCChML0S4

If you play it slowly it’s suddenly not ska anymore, play it with a quick two strum pattern and it’s reggae. You are somewhat constrained into the genre by it’s rhythmic patterns… but then again… most music genres are?

Maybe I didn’t get op’s question haha

Ska is definitely disreputable, I’ll give you that.

i feel like i listen to a lot of techno that is 'genre' techno, in that it is from a label/artists with an insane amount of output and it feels like filler yet here i am listening to it. something like semantica or hypnus records or artists like ASC. plenty of things transcend but it feels created in a niche.

of course there is also a lot of genre techno that is worse than filler you see floating around looking for a hit, but just like i'm more likely to read an Abercrombie genre fantasy than like Warhammer, those things still fit that mode.

i feel like when i listened to 764-hero in 2001 it was basically genre northwest emo

Back in the days of peak dubstep there were whole ongoing forum threads arguing about what did and what didn't count as dubstep. I think the main thing was that it almost unequivocally had to be at 140bpm or people got aggy

These are good examples of "genre music" in the sense of music that conforms closely to genre tropes. But they're missing the second thing I had in mind, the critical disreputability.

fwiw I don't think it's true in the least to say that genre fiction or genre films are critically disreputable in 2021, we've had decades of tastemakers reassessing these and the "critical disreputability" thing is at this point more of a historical leftover from the days when there were far fewer critics and much more of a monoculture around what "quality" means.

So to that point, all popular music is genre music because the non-genre stuff within that mindset is classical music.

ASC put out an album and two EPs last year where the whole thinking behind them was "I Am Now Making 90s Drum 'n' Bass." I bought them; they were very good.

I'm reminded of a thought I had about how some artists are mercurial and follow their own paths as self invention. But leave recognisable landmarks along the way.But there are lesser artists who see the value of that particular nexus and spend their careers investigating what the possibilities of that particular point are or develop their own sense of self invention based in it.
It was something I inferred about general human interface from reading a good book about tghe development of computer interface The inmates are running the asylum by Alan Cooper though it may have occurred to me independently before that.