British Folk (and Revival)

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I thought Alexander Tucker was a Brit? Or am I getting confused and thinking of someone else? Still haven't heard him anyway.

Anyone like Anne Briggs? Both squiffier and pithier than VB I think, though inhabiting a lot of the same territory.

NickB (NickB), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:29 (eighteen years ago) link

I thought Alexander Tucker was a Brit? Or am I getting confused and thinking of someone else? Still haven't heard him anyway.

yeah, he is. and he's like some fucked up guitar god! i can only think of him and voice of the seven woods ... i've seen so many bad contemporay uk folk acts ... devendra banhart has alot to answer for (and i like devendra banhart!)

doomie x, Friday, 16 December 2005 11:32 (eighteen years ago) link

If you mean 60s Anne Briggs - well, I'm not really a big fan of accapella folk singing, I can only really take it in small doses. That 70s album she did was OK, not great. I preferred Bert Jansch singing her songs (or Johnny Moynihan/Sweeney's Men)

We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:32 (eighteen years ago) link

If you mean 60s Anne Briggs - well, I'm not really a big fan of accapella folk singing, I can only really take it in small doses. That 70s album she did was OK, not great. I preferred Bert Jansch singing her songs (or Johnny Moynihan/Sweeney's Men)

yeah, i'd have to agree. i got some micheal chapman albums and still not sure what to think ... was he just a proto-david gray!!

doomie x, Friday, 16 December 2005 11:34 (eighteen years ago) link

i feel kinda bad for Sixteen Horsepower that a bunch of the american folkies are totally stealing their schtick.

sean gramophone (Sean M), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:36 (eighteen years ago) link

x-posts: This one?

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00000JAXS.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

Aww, I think it's wonderful. I'm almost as fond of that as Shirley Collins. Someone else that refuses to sing anymore. Why was there this sudden loss of confidence in these people?

NickB (NickB), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:40 (eighteen years ago) link

See, I'm not that big a fan of Shirley Collins (HERESY! KILL THE UNBELIEVER!)... I like her music, but I don't like her voice all that much

We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:42 (eighteen years ago) link

I mean, for instance, I love "Love, Death and the Lady" but Shirley's voice is what I love least

We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:44 (eighteen years ago) link

I'm almost as fond of that as Shirley Collins. Someone else that refuses to sing anymore. Why was there this sudden loss of confidence in these people?

... and Linda Thompson!

We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:46 (eighteen years ago) link

Fuckin' hell Dada, we really do think the same way about this stuff - I mean I like Shirley Collins, and I'd much rather listen to her voice than most others, but, y'know, a little goes a long way, particularly with the sparse backing that a lot of her albums have. That's why No Roses is such a winner, it puts her voice in a totally different context to most of her work. And I think I said it on a Davey Graham thread recently, but their album just sounds like a weird fusion to me (not in a bad way). Which is the album done mostly on medieval instruments? That's the one I need.

myopic_void (myopic_void), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:51 (eighteen years ago) link

"Anthems In Eden"

We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:54 (eighteen years ago) link

Alexander Tucker plays, or played, in Ginnunagap with Stephen O'Malley and some other people. I've spelt that band name wrong by the way.

Voice of the Seven Woods is one of the best things I've heard this year. I hope he comes and plays near me soon

DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Friday, 16 December 2005 13:18 (eighteen years ago) link

Damn, I'll have to try and find some Ginnungagap - what I've heard I've loved. Not folky, but there's a nice mp3 here.

NickB (NickB), Friday, 16 December 2005 13:36 (eighteen years ago) link

i wen't soulseek crazy last night and sampled a bunch of the artists on this thread. stll haven't gotten around to listening to all of it.

so far: shirley collins and nic jones are GREAT. i got on reccomendation a shirley collins album with davy graham and i have listened twice, i love it. i have one of graham's solos, but no listen yet.

the espers vs lucky luke faux debate: esprs win by miles...i downloaded lucky luke and i do really like it, but it just doesn't measure up and sound as, um, "good". i guess you folk experts can rip me to shreds if i'm wrong.

i found this, too: http://www.wnyc.org/shows/spinning/episodes/05282004

from the espers.org site...

it's espers doing a really beautiful and haunting radio set and then playing some of thier favorite songs from other artists....more to add to my searchlist.

peter x (bucksbreeze), Friday, 16 December 2005 14:25 (eighteen years ago) link

Recommend add "Handful of Earth" by Dick Gaughan to your searchlist - an album I have never once managed to listen to without crying (tho it helps if you're Scottish or Irish)

http://www.moorsmagazine.com/images3/gaughanhandful.jpg

We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 14:29 (eighteen years ago) link

thanks! some guy on soulseek reccomended a scottish guy named owen hand, said the same thing about crying. i hope i can find it.

peter x (bucksbreeze), Friday, 16 December 2005 14:31 (eighteen years ago) link

Dadaismus totally seconded on that Dick Gaughan record. First came across it when June Tabor played 'Craigie Hill' as her choice of her favourite track on some radio programme. An extraordinary and heart-stopping performance that, I think. Have you got any of his other stuff? Any good?

NickB (NickB), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:20 (eighteen years ago) link

My parents love Dick Gauhagn, and what I remember from around the house is great. (He does a great vsn of "Turn Turn Turn", too.)

sean gramophone (Sean M), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:22 (eighteen years ago) link

I've got a couple of his earlier albums - they're probably a bit more hardcore than "Handful", they have unaccompanied songs fr'instance, but full of greatness - I love that socialist song about blacksmiths on the Don in Scotland and on the Don in Russia, "Horo Ghillie Mor" or sumthin'

We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:27 (eighteen years ago) link

... for some reason, Irish and Scots folk music doesn't seem to be as hip these days as English folk (and yes, I know, Bert Jansch and ISB and John Martyn are all Scottish). Of course a lot of the songs are the same.

We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:29 (eighteen years ago) link

Okay. BTW that guy is a ferocious musician. The one time I saw him, he played the shit out of his guitar. Not in a muso fiddly-diddly way, but he just made every string sing out loud.

NickB (NickB), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:29 (eighteen years ago) link

Is Richard Thompson vaguely Scottish too?

NickB (NickB), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:30 (eighteen years ago) link

one thing i think we can all agree on is that the young tradition had the coolest logo. that combined y and t. very proto-industrial in a way. like throbbing gristle or missing foundation. they were ahead of their time. i still need to hear their album *galleries*.

scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:31 (eighteen years ago) link

That Alexander Tucker was a slow grower for me. I think it's pretty damn great now. I think the voice threw me off at first.

I think an act needs to come along with the songwriting CHOPS to really do justice to updating the British Folk. Like some sorta Pentangle meets Sonic Youth band. Or Kevin Sheilds meets Shirley Collins. That would be interesting.

There's so much attention being paid to so many strands of music right now, that the effect of the song is being diluted. This applies to a ton of the US free folk stuff. Everyone is discovering early 70s Japanese stuff, European free improv, the more obscure strains of Krautrock, and all this crazy private press English folk and psych, and before they've digested it, they've attempted to synthesize it in their output.

Perhaps this bodes well for some really cool music in the next 5 years. The rediscovery of all this great music has taken place, and now artists are going to be able to soak it up and turn it into something new.

Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:32 (eighteen years ago) link

Yep, Richard Thompson's dad was Scottish. Ha, I remember when I first got into folk stuff (I dunno, about 10 years ago) and I got such a lot of stick from guys in Glasgow, "English folk music? What's that? They don't have any folk music do they?" or "Oh you mean like Morris dancing music?"

We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:35 (eighteen years ago) link

... I rather suspect a lot of them are listening to Shirley Collins now!

We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:37 (eighteen years ago) link

Why isn't anyone talking about June Tabor? I like her, but not nearly as much as I LOVE Shirley Collins.

Does anyone have Within Sound, Shirley's boxset? I'm wondering if I should buy it, since I already have all of her albums that I could find.

The Milkmaid (of Human Kindness) (The Milkmaid), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:41 (eighteen years ago) link

Is there a red hot comp or sampler suitable for an old punk to sample the likes of S&D Collins, Fairport and other good stuff? PAsh and Dada are generally OTM about most things, so I'm curious. I once had a June Tabor recd, but ditched it. Likewise The Oyster Band, which was a bit of a wrong move I think because it was good. Also I was once in the bargain basement at Recd and Tape Exchange and the guy behind the counter was playing what I took to be Fairport, although I didn't ask, something about a soldier's body? It might have been a live LP. It was absolutely fantastic - a stately rolling beat with *really* great bass and drums and circling guitar. I don't think it was S.Denny on vox, but what do I know - I'm an old punk? I wish I'd asked.

Dr. C (Dr. C), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:41 (eighteen years ago) link

Also -- who's read Shirley's book, America Over the Water? I have. It's pretty good, interesting to hear about the Lomax recordings and Shirley's girlhood. Wistful in a way, too, since she was so young and impressionable.

I don't know of any comps, but I'm sure someone here could make you one.

The Milkmaid (of Human Kindness) (The Milkmaid), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:42 (eighteen years ago) link

Not "transform you into one" but "make one for you." Of course.

The Milkmaid (of Human Kindness) (The Milkmaid), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:43 (eighteen years ago) link

i know what you mean about the chops part. i recently got to see this guy jack rose play in philadelphia and he was so great. i guess he gets thrown into the new folk group. when i saw him, i realized that a lot of the stuff i have seen or heard associted with this stuff, while really good, doesn't have that killer musicianship that often comes with the folk territiry (something i felt jack rose had). i'm a really big devendra banhart fan, but have seen him three times now and don't think he or his band are particularly "amazing" in terms of chops (though i still love it anyway!!!). so far, the only bands i have seen that have that is jack rose, espers (they really do, that one girl who sings is such an amazing guitar player, the whole band is so great) and some guy i asw when i was living in california named nick castro - i wasn't into his music, but the guy was insanely talented.

peter x (bucksbreeze), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:44 (eighteen years ago) link

You can't really go wrong with that old "History of Fairport Convention" compilation - the one with the family tree on it. Shirley Collins' stuff is a bit varied for a concise comp.

We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:49 (eighteen years ago) link

"There's so much attention being paid to so many strands of music right now, that the effect of the song is being diluted. This applies to a ton of the US free folk stuff. Everyone is discovering early 70s Japanese stuff, European free improv, the more obscure strains of Krautrock, and all this crazy private press English folk and psych, and before they've digested it, they've attempted to synthesize it in their output."

OTM! They want to run before they can walk. sometimes this can work. there is something to be said for youthful hubris and ambition. for me, the tower recordings might have come closest. they were always trying something new years ago and they could play. and they had good songs. i don't know, not everyone is trying to do the same thing, i suppose. they might be inspired by pentangle, but know that they will never be able to play like them. something good can still come of pentangle-love.

scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:50 (eighteen years ago) link

Doc, the forthcoming "Anthems In Eden" 4CD comp mentioned upthread, because the stuff I know on there is very good, and there is plenty of stuff I don't know. And it'll be avbout twenty quid, which seems fair.

Milkmaid, I bought the 4CD Shirley set because I was beginning to love her and I didn't have any of the LPs. Also it was £25 and that seemed the right kind of price to be paying. Plus it was a bad day and I needed cheering up. It's a very nice thing, but I'm not sure I'd want to invest if I had all the proper LPs.


Tim (Tim), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:50 (eighteen years ago) link

I had a great 4 album brit folk/revival boxed set from the 70's, but i think i sold it. and i can't remember what label it was on. all the usual suspects were on it, plus old-timers. great informative booklet too with all kinds of history. i wish i still had it.

scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:52 (eighteen years ago) link

Scott - Sounds like "New Electric Muse" to me. A classic compilation. There was also a sequel, but I've not heard it...

Rombald, Friday, 16 December 2005 16:53 (eighteen years ago) link

The next one of the Gather in the Mushrooms series is out soon, which may or may not be any good...

A second helping of acid folk in its myriad, mystical and manifold forms from that great compiler and archivist of Britain's heritage past, Bob Stanley. Artists range from those wll known to the public at large (Donovan, Pentangle, John Renbourn, Roy Harper, Steeleye Span) across more traditional artists respected in their field (Shirley Collins, Sweeney's Men, Anne Briggs) to artists familiar to regular Freak punters (Mellow Candle, Mr Fox, Dando Shaft, Steve Tilston, Duncan Browne, Keith Christmas) and utter obscurities from the farthest-flung flodden fielde (Loudest Whisper, Shide And Acorn, Midwinter, Green Man, Stone Angel).

NickB (NickB), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:55 (eighteen years ago) link

What about for the live recordings, not even for that?

I think, for me, a lot of the focus is on the traditional material, the songs themselves. Hearing Shirley Collins and Jean Ritchie both sing "Sweet William and Lady Margaret" amazes me -- they're virtually the same, but the subtle differences (in pronunciation, phrasing, etc) are worth hearing side by side. Plus, it elicits a lot of crying.

The Milkmaid (of Human Kindness) (The Milkmaid), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:56 (eighteen years ago) link

I think an act needs to come along with the songwriting CHOPS to really do justice to updating the British Folk. Like some sorta Pentangle meets Sonic Youth band.

When I saw Espers, actually, they had one huge-ass jam part that sort of approached this idea, The rest of their set didn't really stand up, though

DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:57 (eighteen years ago) link

yes! thanks, rombald. i will have to look for another copy. here it is here: http://www.popsike.com/php/detaildata.php?itemnr=4055345643

scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:58 (eighteen years ago) link

yeah, i felt the same way when seeing them. also, from what the internet says, they are up and down as a live band. like either completely stunning and "best ever" or a bit messy and boring. i think i saw what might have been a "good" show, though they did struggle with some sound and equipment issues. the recordings are spectacular, though.

peter x (bucksbreeze), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Sweeney's Men - Hall of Mirrors

... download this, people... and "Standing on the Shore"

We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:02 (eighteen years ago) link

... well download it before Bob Stanley discovers it

We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:04 (eighteen years ago) link

He's an archivist of Britain's heritage past, you know.

NickB (NickB), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:07 (eighteen years ago) link

speaking of hipster icons, i still need to buy that Forest two-cd set. I don't have either of those albums, and i really dig that stuff.

band that could feel the folke vibe live really well (and can play their asses off): Ghost

scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:08 (eighteen years ago) link

Sweeney's Men - from the Free State, fuck the Brits!

We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:09 (eighteen years ago) link

(Milkmaid the live recordings are nice and in some cases great but I don't think I'd shell for a box set in order to own them. Mind, in me the Shirley love is not yet as extreme as it is in others.)

Tim (Tim), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:11 (eighteen years ago) link

Ok -- thanks Tim! I have extreme, maniacal Shirley love. (You might be wondering, "If you're so maniacal, why don't you already have the boxed set?" I have no decent answer to that question except that I haven't been able to justify the purchase to myself.)

The Milkmaid (of Human Kindness) (The Milkmaid), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:14 (eighteen years ago) link

Milkmaid - if you've not got 'For As Many as Will' yet, then run out and get it now! It's hands down my favorite of the Shirley & Dolly albums. Everything about it is beautiful (to me, at least)

Rombald, Friday, 16 December 2005 17:19 (eighteen years ago) link

i remember years ago, musta been late-80's, i bought shirley collins CDs on a hipster tip, and i wasn't ready for them. too deep for me back then. whereas, you know, nick drake and sandy denny albums i loved immediately when i heard them back then.(i remember going to tower and buying five leaves left and the next day going back and buying bryter layter and then the NEXT day going back and buying the vinyl fruit tree box! same with sandy. i bought all her albums in a mad rush.) i even traded all the shirley CDs back. i dig that stuff/her stuff so much more now. i needed to grow into them.i never would have listened to half of the trad stuff i like now back then. not even stuff like caravan. *For Girls Who Grow Plump In The Night* has been on my hit-parade for months!

scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:21 (eighteen years ago) link


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