Was/Is Morrissey Racist?

i.) My reference to swastikas was not meant as a reference to that "controversial" art exhibit in New York: knowing little about the actual pieces included, I'm in no position to say whether they used the Nazi imagery in a meaningful or in a destructive manner. (It sounded from the press like it was used reasonably topically, but some of the artists overstretched their statements in the way one would expect: i.e., they cheapened the reality of Nazism in roughly the same way that calling anyone you don't like a Nazi cheapens the reality of Nazism.)

ii.) That argument wasn't intended to lay waste to postmodernism so much as a really awful bastardized thinking that might stem from complete misunderstandings of postmodernism. It's always possible to recontextualize reprehensible signifiers in ways that are aware of their original weight, ways that comment on that original weight, and ways that use that weight to noble purpose. What irks me is when artists think their mere appropriation of such symbols completely strips them of that weight, thereby relieving the artist of any duty to deal with it. Such people are like those kids who wave guns in their friends' faces and say "don't worry, it's unloaded" right before the shot fires.

If you don't like 'glib', Jack, you might be better to stay away from terms like 'politically correct', and maybe engage with the discussion?

If I were to speculate on ways in which critical feedback may have been damaging to Morrissey's art I would probably say that vast quantities of unjustified fawning have wrought far more havoc than these discussions.

Actually not anyone on this thread has been demonizing: I don't see a single post arguing that Morrissey is a bona- fide "racist" as we typically use the term.

The talk of "taboos" is both pointless and contradictory: we now have two whole posters simultaneously arguing that (a) it's acceptable for an artist to attempt to challenge taboo X but then (b) we should avoid actually being challenged by taboo X. This gets particularly nasty with regard to racism, insofar as Sue's argument ("it's worth asking whether racism is really bad") is always followed by whining about demonization ("but it's unfair of you ask if maybe I'm a racist!") The latter fear of actually being seen as racist answers the original question: evidently you do think it's bad, if you're so appalled at being called one.

The idea that it's inherently noble to challenge any bit of conventional wisdom is probably the biggest strain of stupidity among young music listeners of the latter 20th century.

Did you actually see the exhibit?

When I write my screenplay, this is going into the dialogue.

Irish blood, English heart
This I'm made of
There is no one on earth I'm afraid of
And no regime can buy or sell me

I've been dreaming of a time when
to be English is not to be baneful
to be standing by the flag, not feeling shameful
racist or racial

Irish blood, English heart
this I'm made of
There is no one on earth I'm afraid of
And I will die with both of my hands untied

I've been dreaming of a time when
the English are sick to death
of Labour, and Tories
and spit upon the name Oliver Cromwell
and denounce this royal line that still salute him
and will salute him
FOREVER...

And I'm thinking... hey! what's Oliver Cromwell doing in there?! Shouldn't he be hero to a punka like the Moz? Or is he spitting on Cromwell as one of the instigators of the English Imperial military presence in Ireland? A-a-and, why does he think the 'Royal line' still salute OC?? Or is he using OC as a symbol of what Auden calls "the whole offence / From Luther until now /That has driven a culture mad" (ie the Reformation)??

Or whut?

Now if you excuse me, I have to piss on the grave of Ezra Pound.

I put it to you that this is not the only reason.

I'm betting a pound to a penny you actually meant Enoch Powell....
Sorry you are a fule.

Me too!

Billy Bragg wan's England to reclainm it's own flag
I'd agree except 'the union' actually seems less 'bullying', more benificent

But there you see, I can't even handle the concept in my own psyche, grr! It's a mad disease we have.

"I put it to you that this is not the only reason."

I'll go one further than Ned and put it to you that this is absolute total complete and utter bollocks!

The Smiths formed and started gigging in '82 and released both Hand In Glove and This Charming Man during '83....

• MORRISSEY - Breaks his 12-year silence to speak to the NME. The interview everyone wants to read
• KAYNE (sic) WEST - Is he really the only reason anybody should give a shit about hip-hop?

You can kind of see why he feels a bit more comfortable talking to them these days, don't you?

Having read every post on this thread I can now say that I am thoroughly bored of the controversy about Morrissey (so why am I posting? I dunno. Boredom?)that if someone told me Morrissey was rounding up jews I would find it hard to raise enough energy to be appalled. Which is kind of the problem with the debate. We stop understanding what we're discussing. Racism is a very serious charge to level at someone, especially based on a couple of ambiguous lines in a pop song. The NME should have thought about the fact that this is someone's career and reputation they were playing with.

Also, I don't see why people think an artist is responsible for the way in which people interpret or use their art. Should the Beatles take responsibility for Charles Manson? That would seem odd. Ok, it's more predictable that certain uses of the union flag will appeal to certain groups, but I really don't think that an artist is responsible for that either. Anything you put out could be used as an anthem for a nefarious movement, or taken as support. I don't see how an artist could take responsibility for that - once art is in the public sphere people will make whatever use they wish of it. If I think morrissey speaks to me bacause I'm gay, hispanic, disabled or fascist is really not of his concern. He's responsible for the art as he makes it, and people who buy his albums are responsible for the way they use it.

I dunno, I guess none of that makes sense. I'm sure there's a rational (though probably mistaken) thought in there somewhere...

as per this weeks cover of the NME this story is back : http://true-to-you.net/morrissey_news_071127_01