Michael Moore S&D

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ahh Stewart's not balanced, look at the way he regularly genuflects before guests he would otherwise be obliged to deride. South Park and Maher have their own self-serving, predictable (and rather unappealling, in my opinion) libertarian positions which they don't really deviate from.

Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 21:34 (seventeen years ago) link

While Moore's background is in grassroots organising and muckraking journalism, his ticket to fame was America's flourishing medium of satire – a medium he did much to reinvent. His forebears range from Charlie Chaplin to Abbie Hoffman, as Kevin Mattson observed in a 2003 critique for Dissent. Today, Moore operates in a crowded comedic field, much of which could be called 'post-ideological'. Jon Stewart of 'The Daily Show' is unmistakably liberal, but he can be equally merciless toward George W. Bush and Hugo Chávez. Bill Maher, a spirited Bush-basher and opponent of the Iraq war, staunchly defended Israel's July 2006 bombardment of Lebanon and gave an obsequious interview to Benjamin Netanyahu. 'South Park' routinely mocks the pieties of the right and the left. But in Moore's top-grossing documentaries and polemical books, there is no mistaking where his flag is planted. And despite his old-school labour movement roots, he fully understands (to quote Mattson) that today's 'young people are reached via satellite dishes and mega-mall bookstores rather than through cafés or union halls or small magazines'.


point out to me where the reviewer "holds up [xx] as paragons of balanced political commentary."

gff, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 21:35 (seventeen years ago) link

Shakey, there were plenty Leninists who didn't live under Lenin or Stalin. (god why do i bother?) Anyway, it's not even a "strawman" (does anyone know wtf this means anymore?) the comparison is with people who "will always put the cause of increasing human well-being before the well-being of any particular human, and will put the meta-truth before the actual, immediate truth of any situation" the second clause there, considering how you're defending Moore's shortcuts as a documentarian, it sounds like you supported. right?

gff, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 21:41 (seventeen years ago) link

uhhh....

Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 21:42 (seventeen years ago) link

can you read? just makin sure

"Moore operates in a crowded comedic field, much of which could be called 'post-ideological'. Jon Stewart of 'The Daily Show' is unmistakably liberal, but he can be equally merciless toward George W. Bush and Hugo Chávez. Bill Maher, a spirited Bush-basher and opponent of the Iraq war, staunchly defended Israel's July 2006 bombardment of Lebanon and gave an obsequious interview to Benjamin Netanyahu. 'South Park' routinely mocks the pieties of the right and the left. But in Moore's top-grossing documentaries and polemical books, there is no mistaking where his flag is planted."

Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 21:43 (seventeen years ago) link

In no way does he call them "balanced" much less paragons of journalistic virtue, Shakey.

milo z, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 21:45 (seventeen years ago) link

Jesus Christ, Fuck Moore. His work is such a scatter-shot of facts and assertions, distortions and omissions, that anything worthwhile in his films is obscured by the rest. It was a relief to see a movie critical of Bush in 2004, but Moore muddied the water more than he shed light.

A lot of people go to his movies not knowing a lot about the subject, and Moore makes it easy for them to come away with more doubts about legitimate facts and and arguments than they went in with.

He said point-blank that the CIA trained and funded bin Laden, which I have not seen corroborated.


That's true, dude. We trained and funded Bin Laden. Unfortunately you heard that first in a Moore flick.

Moore's an asshole.

Fluffy Bear, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 21:45 (seventeen years ago) link

though I think he misses his own point (Moore lacks any kind of nuance or ability to self-criticize) with the last part of that sentence.

milo z, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 21:46 (seventeen years ago) link

MM, in Roger & Me, made a guy that he knew, who was a liberal, and who supported Moore's paper in Flint, out to look like a racist prick, and the dude sued him for it, and won, years ago. And Moore's own subsequent commentary on the film totally elides this, and still takes a shot at the guy. This is pretty low behavior, to say the least, but let's dismiss it cos some bookreviewer on a webmag said 'Leninist'!!

gff, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 21:47 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm not defending Moore's shortcuts so much as I don't care that he makes them. It doesn't bother me, its par for the course with filmmaking. I don't accept anything he displays on-screen as "the truth" and am saddened and surprised that anyone would do so.

The characterization of Leninism as being concerned with the well-being of humanity is rather disingenuous. Or at least overly simplistic. Lenin (and to much greater degree Stalin) were concerned with preserving their own power, nothing else - ideology (and propaganda) were just a tool to that end. And the Leninist and Stalinist apologists in the west were laboring under all kinds of misconceptions, in addition to their own self-serving political goals.

Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 21:47 (seventeen years ago) link

I'll say it again: "TV Nation" was great, "The Awful Truth" wasn't(except for the Alan Keyes bit), and when he went after Ted Turner, I gave it up and never watched another ep.

kingfish, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 21:47 (seventeen years ago) link

shakey are we just gonna quote the same 75 words back and forth at each other until one of us gets less stupid? seriously, nothing in that paragraph is essentially laudatory of any of those comedians, it's just contextual throat-clearing of the current state of satire.

gff, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 21:48 (seventeen years ago) link

but milo the writer's concluding sentence about there being "no question which side his flag is planted on' is made in contrast to the other previous three examples - the implication being that the side(s) the other "post ideological" comedians/critics take are more nuanced, balanced, etc., that it ISN'T clear which side their flag is planted on.

Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 21:50 (seventeen years ago) link

so many x-postsssss

Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 21:51 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm not defending Moore's shortcuts so much as I don't care that he makes them. It doesn't bother me, its par for the course with filmmaking. I don't accept anything he displays on-screen as "the truth" and am saddened and surprised that anyone would do so.


Then please keep him away from subjects of which the American public is poorly informed.

Fluffy Bear, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 21:51 (seventeen years ago) link

what, all of them?

Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 21:53 (seventeen years ago) link

(I'm trying to think of a subject the American public is generally well-informed on...)

Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 21:53 (seventeen years ago) link

EXACTLY

Fluffy Bear, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 21:53 (seventeen years ago) link

He did terrible things with Roger & Me that more people should know about. However, all the criticisms of his more recent films are slight; he has improved significantly.

abanana, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 21:55 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm fine with his confrontational prankster antics on T.V. Nation. He's good at that and should stick to it.

Fluffy Bear, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 21:58 (seventeen years ago) link

improved?? no way. he fucks up stuff himself, even without editing a thing.

classic example, the moment that really turned me off from him, is his interview with Charleton Heston. remember this? their conversation is starting to head into some REALLY REVEALING and DARK TERRITORY where chuck is ruminating that America's level of violence is because of its "different kinds of people, races and such." can you imagine where that could have gone? if MM had any combination of guile and respect, we could have had a conservative icon and NRA president going on and on about his own genteel racist paranoia, he was just on the edge of doing so. but moore sticks to his own script and badgers the old bastard with a picture of a young handgun victim, asking for an apology. what would the fucking point be of that? and of course heston just gets fed up and bails, and of course moore knew he would. slow clap, michael.

gff, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 22:06 (seventeen years ago) link

The characterization of Leninism as being concerned with the well-being of humanity is rather disingenuous. Or at least overly simplistic.

You seem to have missed the point of that quote: Leninists value the system (or the dogma) over reality. Adherence to an ideological line is an end unto itself. He never says Leninists were just out to help humanity. He doesn't even assign those motives to Leninists, that's a separate clause entirely.

but milo the writer's concluding sentence about there being "no question which side his flag is planted on' is made in contrast to the other previous three examples - the implication being that the side(s) the other "post ideological" comedians/critics take are more nuanced, balanced, etc., that it ISN'T clear which side their flag is planted on.

Except that with each, he points out "which side their flag is planted" on (Jon Stewart is a liberal, etc.) and then points out how they undermine this - how they are willing to take shots at "their side," for a good joke or to inform.

The difference with Moore is that his comedy isn't intelligent enough to make fun of his own side or promote a viewpoint that would seem odd in comparison - and is all the weaker for it.

milo z, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 23:18 (seventeen years ago) link

"how they are willing to take shots at "their side," for a good joke or to inform. "

as I said, I think its highly debatable that South Park and Bill Maher do this at all - they adhere pretty closely to a highly predictable (and obnoxious) "party line"... granted Stewart's a little different.

for the record I don't disagree that Moore's "comedy" is weaker due to his inflexibility/dogmatism. He's very one-sided and presents it under the auspices of being ostensibly "objective", which obviously irritates a whole lot of people... This can't be denied. I was just taking issue with this writer and the way he presents his argument, the examples he uses, etc. heavy-handed reference to Leninists, sloppy comparisons to his contemporaries, that kind of thing.

Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 23:44 (seventeen years ago) link

It wasn't even his reference to Leninists.

milo z, Wednesday, 28 February 2007 00:13 (seventeen years ago) link

two years pass...

October 2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhydyxRjujU&feature=player_embedded

gossip and complaints (suzy), Friday, 21 August 2009 10:18 (fourteen years ago) link

Basically my first take-away from this is MIA has nailed the social protest OST market 4 lyfe.

gossip and complaints (suzy), Friday, 21 August 2009 10:19 (fourteen years ago) link

four weeks pass...
two months pass...

finally saw this last one, maybe his second best after F 9/11.

Feingold/Kaptur 2012 (Dr Morbius), Friday, 27 November 2009 04:28 (fourteen years ago) link

three months pass...

Finally saw it too. The first half is his best stuff in years. The part 40 mins in about "Peasant Death" secret life insurance policies is more shocking than anything else in the film.

The last half though, where he starts doing his usual stunts, is far less effective, and the whole Obama wins people fight back tone is silly and naive. That's what you get in a movie finished right after his election.

Of course after seeing MM in "Unreasonable Man" it's hard to take anything this guy says seriously.

Adam Bruneau, Sunday, 7 March 2010 19:22 (fourteen years ago) link

this guy is a #1 troll

but actually it is impossible to have a penis on the body of a mermaid (dyao), Monday, 15 March 2010 14:44 (fourteen years ago) link

one year passes...

he tweets:

Liberal pundits are saying we should "stand up to Obama!" Really? How should we do that? More begging? More "tsk tsk"? More "pretty please?"

your generation appalls me (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 12 April 2011 17:36 (thirteen years ago) link

two years pass...

spotted on sidewalk outside IFC Center yakking w/ patrons after Q&A session for Jeremy Scahill's docfilm Dirty Wars. You won't believe it but he was in t shirt and jeans.

ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Monday, 10 June 2013 13:40 (ten years ago) link

seven months pass...

Ran across a cache of old VHS tapes that were boxed up in the garage and found the TV Nation tapes I had. I lucked out and got to see the pilot almost a year before it actually aired. Instantly thought, no way this is getting on. It was classic Mad Magazine "beware of The Man" pop sociology with Michael Moore as Alfred E. Chomsky and Louis Theroux, Karen Duffy, Merrill Markoe, Janeane Garofalo & that KGB guy as the Usual Gang of Idiots. Best prank Moore ever pulled off - convincing NBC to fund a season of it.

Elvis Telecom, Saturday, 11 January 2014 09:26 (ten years ago) link

one year passes...

WHERE TO INVADE NEXT explores the current state of the nation in a form that is quintessential Moore: provocative, impassioned and very funny. The film was a runaway hit with audiences and critics at this month's Toronto International Film Festival (and currently boasts a rating of 95% on Rotten Tomatoes). The film's American premiere is this Friday evening at the New York Film Festival presented by the Film Society of Lincoln Center. It sold out within hours of being announced.

Moore's epic journey will invade American cinemas this December -- and will be in hundreds of theaters across the country ahead of the first presidential primary.

http://wheretoinvadenext.com/

skateboards are the new combover (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 30 September 2015 18:41 (eight years ago) link

Really wish Michael Moore would write documentaries for other people to direct and star in.

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 30 September 2015 20:05 (eight years ago) link

Great title.

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 30 September 2015 20:27 (eight years ago) link

Hey, I remember this TV Nation bit

Purves Grundy (kingfish), Wednesday, 30 September 2015 20:51 (eight years ago) link

four months pass...
three months pass...

looks bad

socka flocka-jones (man alive), Friday, 3 June 2016 17:36 (seven years ago) link

friend (not the op) shared this:

https://www.facebook.com/sylvain.lariviere.777/videos/vb.829750410/10156828556290411/?type=2&theater

Sylvain Lariviere

Follow · May 25 · Edited ·

..

ain't America
Here is a different reality about Italia from an Italian girl who's living a different daily reality than this video
(From Valentina Corvi)

ciao! just to tell u that that moor's video is completelly false. the majority of us strugles to arrive to the end of the month, and we are almost bankrupted as a country. the two companies where he went, have nothing to do with all the rest of the Italian companies. wages are around 1000/1200 euros per month, the 100% goes away for monthly expenses (house rent, bills, food, kids needs, medicines..). yes, sure, holidays here are payed, but normal people use that money to survive not to go on holiday. that couple?? easy when u are in two people working and no kids. in italy is much more common that only one of the two has a job (there are no jobs here) and 3 kids at home.
we are devastated by the taxes of our corrupted politicians (the only really rich in my country). for i stance, i have a house in the center of rome, was my granny house. i have to give every year 6500 euros to the gov only cause i own that house, only cause is mine, every year i have to pay 6500 euros, over a hoise where already my granmother payd lot of taxes when she bought it. than i have to pay the tari, other 600 euros, to the district of rome, so evry year just cause i posses my family house, i've to give 7000 euros to the gov.
and i'm lucky, cause i can afford, i belong to the minority of the itslians. if i was a normal itslian, i would have been forced to sell my family house. half of the pay an employe gets here, goes to the government in first place, with what remains, u have to survive.
another exaple, gino strada, he is a surgeon who created a medical charity organization called emergency. emergency used to work only in the third world or in war places as siria, afganistan ecc. they provide free medical assitence. well, now they had to open emergency centers also in italy, cause the 20% of the italians cannot afford paying for healthcare, though here is not like in the us and medical healsh should be free. but the is a tax on it called "ticket", u dont pay the medical care but y pay the tax on it. and people are so poor now that they cannot afford paying the ticket. so gino strada was forced to help suffering people also in his country.
michael moor wanted to uplight what's wrong in the us. but he should have gone in northen europe, not in italy. people want to come in the usa, cause at least there u can find a job. maybe maternity and holidays are not payd, but still u can find a job. here people do not have a job, nevertheless they have to pay a lot of taxes over whatever. we have also a tax over taxes, it sounds funny, but is the dramatic italian reality.
never so a more unfair video as the moor's one.
the only thing here is better than usa, the reason why our life span is wider, is that is true that we don't eat shit. our diet, the mediterrain diet, is very healthy since we eat a lot of fruit and vegetables, very little sugar, very little fats, and we don't like processed food. but obama is pishing for the ttip, he want europe to be invaded with the american shit, meat full of antibiotics and hormons, ogm, veg filled up with chemicals. as soon as the american edible crap will invade us, will die obese, with diabetis and as soon as u do there!

ciao!

socka flocka-jones (man alive), Friday, 3 June 2016 17:52 (seven years ago) link

two weeks pass...

Where To Invade Next had some stuff I liked--a bit contrasting the ways in which Germany acknowledges and pays tribute to its victims of the Holocaust with America's inability to do any such equivalent re: slavery admittedly choked me up a bit. But he's gotten awful lazy as a filmmaker, and the film is ultimately a bit shallow and repetitive. Grossest moment: putting the father of a victim of a mass shooting on camera to discuss his lack of hostility towards the shooter as proof at how non-grudge-holding Europeans are; my husband actually yelled "Fuck Off!" at the TV.

rhymes with "blondie blast" (cryptosicko), Tuesday, 21 June 2016 21:26 (seven years ago) link

three months pass...

Michael Moore's October Surprise: 'TrumpLand' Documentary

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/19/movies/19michael-moore-trumpland.html

PappaWheelie V, Tuesday, 18 October 2016 20:47 (seven years ago) link

Ugh, like this election needs his half-assery We have enough full-assery as it is.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 18 October 2016 20:48 (seven years ago) link

two months pass...

Total fucking dud

Everything Moves Towards The Sun (Ross), Saturday, 24 December 2016 06:08 (seven years ago) link

yeah, right? One of about 6 people in the country who told us Trump would win.

Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 24 December 2016 06:23 (seven years ago) link

three weeks pass...

interview

What you’re going to see is, on day one, he’s going to rescind a dozen or more of Obama’s executive-branch regulations. On day two, Republicans will start printing laws the way you print fliers for a homecoming dance. Before the liberals and the Democrats can get their heads screwed on straight, they’ll have 20 laws passed. Building a wall. Creating a Muslim ban. He’s shown how he’s going to do it. He’s going to get away with it by making it a ban on Muslims who come from the following countries. He needs just enough cover for his crowd to say, “Oh, he’s being reasonable there. He’s not banning all Muslims.”...

I met (Trump) in 1998. Roseanne Barr — after her sitcom was over, they gave her a talk show. I was on, and Trump was there in the green room. He sees me, goes to the producer, and says, “I can’t be on the same show. I saw that General Motors movie, and he’s going to attack me.”

The producer said [to me], “Is there any way you can help me?” I said, “Oh brother, I’ll go talk to him.” I walked over, shook his hand — it was very clammy. I don’t honestly remember the size, but it was moist. He said, “We don’t have to mix it up out there.” I said, “Why do you assume that about me? I’m from Michigan. We don’t really know you. The only thing that sticks in my head is you were one of the few guys that was on the cover of Playboy.” He laughed. I said, “It’s Roseanne. She’s a comedian. You have nothing to worry about here.”

He stayed, and we did the show. And it wasn’t until last year that it hit me: People think he’s stupid — he’s not stupid at all. He played me; he got me to not be myself, to not talk any anti-corporate talk. I thought I was going over to relax him. What he was doing was undoing me so I wouldn’t be Michael Moore. This guy is good....

Tom Hanks should be the template of who the Democrats should run. He is beloved by tens of millions of people, and he’s smart, and he operates from both his brain and his heart. As far as I’m concerned, he has good politics.

http://variety.com/2017/film/news/michael-moore-donald-trump-democrats-election-1201960466/

well he was doin' ok til that last bit

Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 17 January 2017 20:16 (seven years ago) link

one year passes...

so Ocasio-Cortez has some screen time in this one; freshly edited!

Here's the exclusive trailer for Michael Moore's (@MMFlint) newest documentary "Fahrenheit 11/9." It's in theaters Sept. 21. pic.twitter.com/eHLPy1J9o4

— HuffPost (@HuffPost) August 9, 2018

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 9 August 2018 15:11 (five years ago) link

Oh great he’s reusing that asinine title

faculty w1fe (silby), Thursday, 9 August 2018 15:25 (five years ago) link

well F9/11 did gross $221 million globally, so not a hindrance

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 9 August 2018 15:45 (five years ago) link

The official poster for my new movie! See you all at the theaters across the U.S. on Opening Day, September 21st! #Fahrenheit119 pic.twitter.com/khZrBMqqSQ

— Michael Moore (@MMFlint) August 15, 2018

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 15 August 2018 18:02 (five years ago) link


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