Literary Clusterfucks 2013

I also don't understand these subtweet analogies because I'm not on Twitter. What is a subtweet?

whoever upthread said this should be a coen brothers movie was otm

Unfortunate that they already used "Burn After Reading."

Nice

Most ilxors fine irl ime btw

Same! I've enjoyed my time meeting ilxors in real life, every time!

this story is a rorshach test. whichever person you sympathize with more is the one you secretly believe yourself to resemble. or rather, you are afraid that you are annoying in the way that person is annoying. so for me i sympathize with dorland and abhor larson but it's only because i cringe on behalf of the former and recoil in fear from the latter.

in some cases, though, the identification is too strong and the reader of the story sides with their perceived opposite instead. a kind of defense. that can happen.

but both figures are so irritating in ways that are very recognizable, very contemporary, which is why this is a good viral story.

What about thinking everyone is awful, including thinkpiece writers

everyone thinks that.

what i am saying is, deep down, there is one of the two you despise more than the other.

chunky monkey is my least favorite Ben & Jerry's ice cream flavor

Ok fair xp

The one I despise least is the one who literally donated a kidney to save someone's life. But did it in an annoying way

what i am saying is, deep down, there is one of the two you despise more than the other.

― treeship., Sunday, October 10, 2021 3:41 PM (three minutes ago)

idk -- I can see parts of myself in both, and also how I would have dealt with the situation were I in either position. And I would not have made the choices they made.

I remember a few years back, there was this woman who really annoyed me, and I wrote a song with lyrics that were totally references to stuff she wrote on social media. And then I thought, am I okay with people knowing this? How would I respond if I was performing this song and she was there, or someone I liked who was friends with her? And I decided, this is not a battle I want to fight. And I changed the lyrics.

Obviously it's sort of hilarious how mad it all is. But I'm glad someone got a kidney out of it. We should make it a rule that all literary clusterfucks need to kick off with an organ donation otherwise they don't count.

and next time it should be a penis

They should make that the literary motto - the penis! Mightier than the sword!

Who would receive the penis

I imagine every single writer of fiction has thought about using some real-life incident that would likely hurt the real-life person - and then decided against it, or camouflaged it to the extent no one would ever know. Larson didn't do that, she did the exact opposite: with the warmly/kindly switch, she deliberately identified Dorland to those in the know. Dorland is a complete and utter nightmare - but I'm not sure she did anything as morally egregious as that.

i still regret using Budd Dwyer in my novel

dorland seems like someone who is clinging to a story about herself--that she is unusually selfless--and even is cultivating a forced sense of naivete, of innocence, that flatters her sense of herself as "too pure for the world". she seems annoying. but larson was sort of sadistic in the way she went about puncturing these cherished illusions of dorland's. there isn't a way to look at her actions and not see the aggression there.

Dorland sued Larson on tenuous grounds, ramped up settlement demands, and pitched the story to media. Not defending Larson, but Dorland's actions are egregious and aggressive.

ongoing human interactions between the initial pain in the arse and their victims lenf themselves to such forensic judgement but i must admit that i will always hold pen to the ready to draw up the minority opinion that suggests some people would drive you fuckin demented, for all that the image people will remember is basil fawlty beating up a car with a branch and not the car being a genuine pain in his hole

Id a harmless co worker reduce me to tears on a tesco sandwich aisle after he attached himself to me the six months previous and followed me everywhere talking incessantly about his crypto wallet and giving bad advice unasked, the final straw was him picking up the crisps and drink to make the meal deal for the sandwich i had selected, after he silently followed me from my desk out the door and around the corner from the office to do so

Now im sure i looked the worse party in the instant but murder was in range at the time as a result of repeated breaches of the nuisance code and crimes of passion are crimes of the moment, not to be fairly judged so clinically thereafter treesh

giving bad advice unasked
B-b-but I thought you didn’t mind unsolicited advice?

Sorry

literally donated a kidney to save someone's life

figuratively donated a kidney

am referring to the motive not the action

Dorland sued Larson on tenuous grounds, ramped up settlement demands, and pitched the story to media. Not defending Larson, but Dorland's actions are egregious and aggressive.

― bulb after bulb, Sunday, October 10, 2021 7:31 PM (fourteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

this is a good point

xpost Does the motive matter if the outcome is good?

yeah imo

like at least a little if we're gonna spend a week psychoanalyzing this person

Lily, the organlegger’s daughter, was literally bereft of her kidney.

the point of larson's story was to reveal the narcissism that lay behind the action. this is a kind of insight that dorland probably isn't ready for, tbh, given what we know about her. that is part of why the story seemed so aggressive.

but the quick response from dorland, the lawsuit and the times article, show that larson was right about her.

wait someone just messaged me this. seems larson struck first with the lawsuit not dorland. dorland says she wanted to quietly settle her copyright claim about her email.

You, an intellectual: Dorland's decision to pitch a story about herself to the NYT was one of the biggest self-owns ever.

Me, casually: Did you see that Larson's decision to strike first with a lawsuit is the reason her group chats became public?

https://t.co/P1MogzSkqy pic.twitter.com/plw7ENXGuf

— Spooky N. Gore (@moorehn) October 7, 2021

xpost Does the motive matter if the outcome is good?

― Zelda Zonk, Sunday, October 10, 2021 7:48 PM bookmarkflaglink

ultimately, no. I mean, that speaks zero to the donating person's character, but in the end, the kidney went to someone who was needed, so net positive.

i recommend reading that thread.

that speaks zero to the donating person's character

isn't her and larsen's characters the subject of the story and this discussion?

This chat is maybe the saddest shot ever written:

This conversation from the transcripts (sent to me) between Larson and a (white woman) member of Grub Street is so concerning. The member promises Larson that if Dorland speaks up about the plagiarism they'll all exclude her, which has career implications. pic.twitter.com/qn1d3BVOG4

— Spooky N. Gore (@moorehn) October 8, 2021

i wonder what it is about dawn that is so offensive to this group. i can see that she is self-centered but loads of people are.

this thread has sent me down the rabbit hole of twitter accounts that are currently obsessed with dissecting this....don't want to get into any of these true crime podcasts............

interesting that the 1 city 1 story thing seems to have a history of going to members of the clique, and also interesting that they really proudly call themselves "chunky monkeys" every chance they get jfc

i wonder what it is about dawn that is so offensive to this group. i can see that she is self-centered but loads of people are.

― treeship., Sunday, October 10, 2021 8:21 PM (fifty-seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

they are bullies and she is an obvious target for bullying

I'm a bit invested in this as something vaguely similar happened to me years ago. I was part of a social group all in our 20s, doing the cliched thing of living in Paris trying to be writers, fashion designers or whatever, but actually teaching English as a foreign language to make ends meet. One of the group wrote a novel based on our Paris hi-jinks. I was a minor character in it, and it related an incident that was personal and painted me in a not terribly favourable light. Before publication, the author circulated the MS to everyone involved - I asked for the incident, which only took up a page or so, to be cut, and she complied. If she hadn't, I don't think I would have done any Dorland-style stuff, but I would have been very hurt and angry and would have never spoken to her again. It's very, very weird seeing yourself turn up as an unflattering fictional character.

I'm not going to waste one of my free NYT articles on this, but if the story starts with someone upset at the lack of acknowledgment of their selflessness in donating a kidney, that is a person who should donate a second kidney ASAP.

i wonder what it is about dawn that is so offensive to this group. i can see that she is self-centered but loads of people are.

Based on her reaction to not being feted for a kidney donation that had nothing to do with any other person involved in this story (or writer's group... or anyone but the kidney's new owner and their family), I can see quite easily why she'd be strongly disliked.

The proper response is to just make that person dead to you and your social circle, though, rather than continuing to interact in any way.

The New Yorker's review of the short story in question: https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/the-story-at-the-center-of-the-bad-art-friend-saga

Tldr: "the prose is bad"