What are Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Flaws?

Like it's possible and even okay to say 'this vote sucks' or 'this vote makes me think less of AOC' without saying 'lol, guess AOC will be voting for us to invade China soon, lol lol'.

xp makes sense to me viborg! i should say, too, that personally i don't think it's a huge deal to be unclear, either. the world unclear right now (imo)

also old lunch otm with that. again, i skipped a lot upthread, but that's because i know that it's full of that kind of stuff. hard to take at length

It's hardly wild speculation to say AOC will go to shit based on what we've seen last week.

Sorry if I'm not respecting posting tradition in doing so.

Cynicism, that's where I'm a viking

viborg, the issue really is that *any* valid criticism of AOC is immediately read as "Leftists of ILX being misogynist purity police." Of course, this latter phenomenon does happen, but what I see more of is people ready to jump down the proverbial throats of anyone who dares to question AOC and her bullshit performative Leftism.

Perhaps it's because they don't agree that it's "bullshit performative Leftism"

I'm not sure that xyz's stance is any more cynical than you have to be prepared for awful votes, don't be a dummy and expect better.

who exactly is being the dummy

xpost @ the table is the table

Right that’s certainly fair. I’m far from wedded to the party and I know the feeling of being shut out by the accepted Overton window or whatever.

But I’m mostly with Old Lunch, when xyzzzz__ mentioned the events of last week, that’s mainly referring to the Israel vote and her fashion choices right?

Hopefully we can all agree that while the fashion choices might be significant in terms of optics, the actual relevance to her policy positions is not so crucial.

Again the initial criticism of the Israel vote was not unwarranted. However the context is also fairly unique, especially imo considering how Corbyn has been pilloried for his support for Palestine, and in New York in particular, criticism of Israel is basically the third rail of politics — untouchable.

That’s really neither here nor there though, I’m taking sides which right now seems mostly counter-productive. The arguments have already been laid out, the only real contribution I had to make was trying to make a somewhat balanced and objective case for quality of discussion.

I seem to be mainly expert at failure these days so if this was another L for me then that’s par for the course. (Is that a mixed metaphor? I can take an L at golf right? Fuck golf tbh, it should be illegal.)

I'm not that invested in this particular argument but I mistrust how much energy there is for taking apart a non-white woman elected official in the landscape of terrible elected officials.

If she had voted otherwise in this instance would it have changed anything?

It doesn't remove the moral blight of her vote. She disappointed many of us precisely because we did expect better.

xp unfortunately yes, aiui she was the deciding vote?

"But I’m mostly with Old Lunch, when xyzzzz__ mentioned the events of last week, that’s mainly referring to the Israel vote and her fashion choices right?"

I didn't talk about her dress at the gala xxp

I get thinking misogyny might play a role, but I don’t think it does here. Bowman isn’t getting the same level of shade because he’s not a national figure and frankly, he didn’t make a big performative deal of voting the wrong way. It was badly done on her part, and the long letter saying nothing didn’t help.

I'm not that invested in this particular argument but I mistrust how much energy there is for taking apart a non-white woman elected official in the landscape of terrible elected officials.

She has embraced the role of being the second most prominent face of the American left. That makes her a lightning rod for criticism and praise from people who see in her a potentially better future.

Bowman isn't taking as much shit for his vote and Bush/Omar/Tlaib essentially never garner as much praise (no one's shouting out Omar as "the coolest" politician on Earth here on ol' ILX).

Xxxxposts the vote was 420-9

the thing is Omar, Pressley, Bush, and Tlaib are objectively cooler than AOC

but it would also be weird for someone to come onto the AOC thread and be all "Omar rules the school", like maybe some of the conversation here is happening because people are talking about the person the thread is about rather than playing woman-of-color "gotta invalidate 'em all!" Pokemon

oh well if it was 420-9 this seems like a lot of nonsense over nothing, somehow I thought it was close

oh well if it was 420-9 this seems like a lot of nonsense over nothing, somehow I thought it was close

― sleeve, Monday, September 27, 2021 6:44 PM (ten minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

could have been 420-69 with just 60 more voting members

playing woman-of-color "gotta invalidate 'em all!" Pokemon

this sounds like a fox news bit from the future, when zoomers are 30+

lol map

oh well if it was 420-9 this seems like a lot of nonsense over nothing, somehow I thought it was close

― sleeve, Monday, September 27, 2021 6:44 PM (ten minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

could have been 420-69 with just 60 more voting members

― Linda and Jodie Rocco (map), Monday, September 27, 2021 12:58 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

yet another compelling reason to amend the permanent apportionment act of 1929

Britishers in an American politics thread

Hillary Clinton walking so pompously into Queens University in Belfast as a child carries the tail of her cape and bystanders call her a war criminal is one of the funniest things I’ve ever seen pic.twitter.com/Q07DYgch5I

— Kate Hyde (@KateHydeNY) September 24, 2021

what the hell is happening there, when did The Thick Of It become real life

2
Divided by love
Can only be 1
And 1 is the loneliest number

I am completely baffled by that Clinton video. Why is she dressed like that? Why is a child carrying the tail of her cape? How is this not a prank? help I'm dying of lols

lol it's so funny

did she eat the child when she got inside?

Why do you think she carries hot sauce everywhere?

lmao

if I got an honorary chancellorship at a uni. I personally wouldn't go for the Louis XV entrance, but that's just me

Calz, thought you'd be more for the Louis XVI exit?

If you don't think HS will advance the class struggle you're possibly not understanding social democracy correctly from a Marxist viewpoint

HC! not Hilary Simpsom

I went to a state school that wasn't that great and avoided as much philosophy, political science, and psychology as possible, in favor of moar history classes. I can pretty much guaranty I don't understand anything from a marxist viewpoint. I wish I did!

sorry, I'm quoting a UK pol thing on a US thread again. It's a pisstake quote of an extremely stupid Paul Mason pronouncement that will haunt and clown him him until his death

what the hell is happening there, when did The Thick Of It become real life

did you pay attention to politics during the original TX of The Thick Of It

Uh oh, she's just in total free fall after the dress debacle. Way to torch your online constituency.

"I think that President Biden has been a good faith partner to the entire Democratic Party" -- AOC pic.twitter.com/W9oC9hmmNV

— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) October 3, 2021

Deep thoughts with Jack Handey over here https://t.co/9fhii4C49Q

— Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (@AOC) February 9, 2022

She’s on fire today

At least she leads by example. She clearly banned all books from her house years ago https://t.co/SGMheBuFzn

— Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (@AOC) February 9, 2022

Jake's "Neither are" is also bad tbh

Excellent interview with Remnick:

This piece, which draws some conclusions from the Remnick interview, is good, too:
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/02/17/what-aoc-learned-from-trump-00009700

great answer

When you are asked questions about whether or not Nancy Pelosi should stay as Speaker, when you’re asked questions about the rather advanced ages of Steny Hoyer, Jim Clyburn, and Chuck Schumer, does it make a difference? You’re saying it’s structural. It’s not generational.

It’s both. The reason we have this generational situation that we do is also, in part, due to our structures. The generational aspect of things is absolutely pertinent to the kind of decision-making. There is this world view, this appeal, of a time passed that I think sometimes guides decision-making. President Biden thought that he could talk with Manchin like an old pal and bring him along. And, frankly, that was what the White House’s strategy was, in terms of what they communicated to us. That’s how they tried to sell passage of not even half a loaf but a tenth of the loaf. It was “We promise we’ll be able to bring them along.” There is this idea that this is just a temporary thing and we’ll get back to that. But I grew up my entire life in this mess. There’s no nostalgia for a time when Washington worked in my life.

What divides AOC and her allies from others in the party is above all a theory of power: How to gain it, how to use it, how to keep it. It is a difference grounded in a cultural mindset about how politics should look, sound and feel.

this seems very otm. it is hard for old line dems in leadership to see and feel that their world has passed on, because they stand at or near the pinnacle of power and believe they control that world, so it's impossible they could be left behind. in their minds they own it!

What’s funny about that quote from the Politico piece is that Harris, the writer, is one of those old-line institutionalists to the marrow of his bones. With his dying breath he’ll huff out one last recitation of the legend about Reagan and Tip O’Neill drinking together.

I read the POLITICO summary before The New Yorker story and almost didn't keep going.

Predictably the pull quote is the one about DC being a shitshow, but her immediately identifying student loan forgiveness as the keystone issue which Biden could act on at once w/o going through the Senate and would significantly affect the midterms, is far more telling. The Progressive Caucus leadership has a really good grasp of the electoral realities of 2022. More so than Biden or the old-line top leadership.

A part of me (a true dumbshit part of me. Me, an idiot) wants to believe biden’s handlers are waiting until september to do stuff like student loan forgiveness so it doesnt fall out of the news cycle