i definitely disagree with her vote, but half of the phrase “leftist politician” is still “politician”—the nature of the gig does not coexist with ideological purity (for dems, at least). it’s worth pointing out that until very very recently, “supporting” israel was one of the few slam dunk easy positions for pols of either party to have
the promise that she represents, for me, is a dem caucus full of people like her instead of people like the stiff she replaced
so maybe what i’m saying is that as silly it is to stan a politician, it’s just as silly to write off perhaps a talented messenger for social justice after one bad vote (or party dress)
― grove street (party) direction (voodoo chili), Saturday, 25 September 2021 18:17 (two years ago) link
just as silly to write off perhaps a talented messenger for social justice after one bad vote (or party dress)
― caddy lac brougham? (will), Saturday, 25 September 2021 18:28 (two years ago) link
I think there are a negligible number of people writing her off for the Iron Dome and dress who hadn't written off AOC (and any other Democrat) by February 2019.
Criticism comes in hot because she hasn't been written off.
― papal hotwife (milo z), Saturday, 25 September 2021 18:49 (two years ago) link
I read her explanation as "I voted present because I objected to the process, which was too rushed for me to even consider the substance." But that seems like an equally valid reason for voting no, especially when you know the bill is going to pass overwhelmingly and your vote won't actually make a difference to the outcome. People vote "no" for all kinds of reasons.
― jaymc, Saturday, 25 September 2021 19:02 (two years ago) link
number of people writing her off after iron dome and tax dress: 25,044number of people who wrote her off (and any other democrat) by feb 2019: 814
what a stupendously silly world this is. anyone who wrote her off by feb 2019 live in a dream world where they get to float above everything and criticize while never having any better idea _that can actually happen in real life_
― typo hell #5: maybe you get an idea of what went into, or (Karl Malone), Saturday, 25 September 2021 19:56 (two years ago) link
brb, i am going to go stand by the traffic light and make clear that i was always against traffic and that i write off anyone who goes near "roads"
i made a joke somewhere upthread about how it was going to take approximately 2 seconds for holy leftists of purity to start out-righteousing each other over rejecting AOC. she's not untouchable, far from it, but i just fucking hate this kind of garbage and can't stand to be near it. reading a book about lee krasner now and she talks about how she attended a billion union communist meetings in the 30s in new york and it was so fucking nauseating that it pissed her off for life. krasner otm, it's excruciating to be in this world
― typo hell #5: maybe you get an idea of what went into, or (Karl Malone), Saturday, 25 September 2021 19:59 (two years ago) link
worst world
― typo hell #5: maybe you get an idea of what went into, or (Karl Malone), Saturday, 25 September 2021 20:00 (two years ago) link
there, maybe i've out-cynicized the entire wretched worst world, now. i stand to the left of it, pointing at the world and everything in it, all of us, saying "no! it's bad and i knew it first. and my ideas are so perfect that it's just me and 23 other people in this hemisphere who could even dare to implement it."
― typo hell #5: maybe you get an idea of what went into, or (Karl Malone), Saturday, 25 September 2021 20:02 (two years ago) link
then again, i do believe palestine should be obliterated and israel finally established as the righteous kingdom of heaven on earth, so it makes sense that i would defend AOC, who is filled with hatred and never does anything good for normal people
― typo hell #5: maybe you get an idea of what went into, or (Karl Malone), Saturday, 25 September 2021 20:03 (two years ago) link
criticizing EVERYTHING is the easiest fucking thing on earth to do. you will never be wrong, eventually
enjoy your miserable weekends on this dying earth
― typo hell #5: maybe you get an idea of what went into, or (Karl Malone), Saturday, 25 September 2021 20:04 (two years ago) link
https://img.freepik.com/free-photo/pleased-good-looking-happy-man-with-ginger-hair-brislte-showing-thumbs-up-smiling-broadly-giving-positive-feedback-sharing-his-positive-opinion-grey-wall_176420-27439.jpg
― papal hotwife (milo z), Saturday, 25 September 2021 20:15 (two years ago) link
Politicians are designed to disappoint. Hers was an awful position; I expected nothing less from her or anyone else.
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 25 September 2021 20:27 (two years ago) link
lousy overrated self-serving politicians deserve nothing but contempt and to say criticising lousy overrated politicians is criticising EVERYTHING is somewhat hyperbolic! Nothing will ever change with this gradualist approach, especially when by the time she's a big dog in the Dems at the current rate of meltage she'll have melted more than the polar ice caps.
― calzino, Saturday, 25 September 2021 20:37 (two years ago) link
It was inevitable she'd get piled on for a deservedly craven move, whether hero or hack.
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 25 September 2021 20:40 (two years ago) link
A revolution of annoying people, led by charismatic leaders to the left of AOC
― typo hell #5: maybe you get an idea of what went into, or (Karl Malone), Saturday, 25 September 2021 20:43 (two years ago) link
Shes a useful figure when everyone feels like doing their little bit tbf
― fix up luke shawp (darraghmac), Saturday, 25 September 2021 20:57 (two years ago) link
"the promise that she represents, for me, is a dem caucus full of people like her instead of people like the stiff she replaced"
What you are seeing is 'people like her' becoming the very 'stiffs' they replace. One vote at a time.
― xyzzzz__, Sunday, 26 September 2021 09:12 (two years ago) link
The longer one's in power, the greater the likelihood for awful votes. I'm not sure why she's different.
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 26 September 2021 09:40 (two years ago) link
she replaced joe Crowley, who voted for the iraq war
― grove street (party) direction (voodoo chili), Sunday, 26 September 2021 14:08 (two years ago) link
If AOC ends up being half as good as she was at the beginning she'll still be better than half of the Dems
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 26 September 2021 15:12 (two years ago) link
Decent career WARL (wins above replacement legislator)
― Profiles in Liquid Courage (WmC), Sunday, 26 September 2021 15:21 (two years ago) link
sabermetrics lols, i'm about it
― Gardyloominati (Neanderthal), Sunday, 26 September 2021 15:21 (two years ago) link
― grove street (party) direction (voodoo chili), Sunday, 26 September 2021 bookmarkflaglink
Maybe she'll vote for War with China, with a heavy heart.
Which is progress.
― xyzzzz__, Monday, 27 September 2021 07:50 (two years ago) link
Did you have these posts prewritten, waiting for her to inevitably slip up?
― Marty J. Bilge (Old Lunch), Monday, 27 September 2021 11:12 (two years ago) link
positing baseless fantasies makes you smart, actually
― grove street (party) direction (voodoo chili), Monday, 27 September 2021 13:48 (two years ago) link
Milo and xyz are otm here imo
― fix up luke shawp (darraghmac), Monday, 27 September 2021 14:19 (two years ago) link
I gotta be honest, in most forums I would write this level of discussion off as trolling.
― recovering internet addict/shitposter (viborg), Monday, 27 September 2021 14:34 (two years ago) link
isn't it? lol
― Nhex, Monday, 27 September 2021 15:04 (two years ago) link
politics in the u.s., at least on the national level, has been devoid of substance for years, and is essentially just trolling. the things we grew up with - schoolhouse rock, how a bill is passed, etc - looks like old-timey footage from the 1800s. the way politics and the legislative process is supposed to work has been upended and turned into a joke. to talk about "policies" is out of date. who cares about policies? the GOP bother putting together a platform in 2020. no one noticed. if the thread is a bunch of trolling an personality-driven bullshit, it's a reflection of the world we live in
― typo hell #5: maybe you get an idea of what went into, or (Karl Malone), Monday, 27 September 2021 15:09 (two years ago) link
like what, you want to talk about legislation that AOC wants to pass? cool, she's supporting like a million great things, and isn't alone. it's just that you have to fight the 2-mile high power ranger boss battle in the Cave of Forgetfulness before you can get past the filibuster, first
― typo hell #5: maybe you get an idea of what went into, or (Karl Malone), Monday, 27 September 2021 15:10 (two years ago) link
and yes, the cave is more than 2-miles high ok
"wants to pass" is fairly soft stuff tbh, we're talking about a literal vote here
― fix up luke shawp (darraghmac), Monday, 27 September 2021 15:32 (two years ago) link
ah, you're getting into the specifics though. the second you do that, you have to consider the context within which she operates, which, *presses button to go into space and look at united states, only some of which is on fire at the moment*, seems absurd and inherently troll-like. us politicians are dominated by the media and the public's perception of them, which they get via media. look at "media" *presses button to zoom into media* it is absurd, everywhere. call it click-bait, vapid commentary by the word, troll-like. it's the same old trolls it's always been, but it's seeping into all of the outlets to some degree. we are about 5 years away from a washington post front cover that's something like "OOPS, WE DID IT AGAIN -- WE'RE BOMBING IRAQ AGAIN I GUESS LOL!" *presses button to apologize, explain i'm just being 99% goofy here, but i 1% believe it, goes way into outer space*
― typo hell #5: maybe you get an idea of what went into, or (Karl Malone), Monday, 27 September 2021 15:37 (two years ago) link
want to stress again that i'm not talking about AOC's vote on israel here, or the dress. i really did skip all of those posts.
i'm specifically addressing this idea, which is valid:
someone should start a thread on "trolling" and its meaning, you know?
― typo hell #5: maybe you get an idea of what went into, or (Karl Malone), Monday, 27 September 2021 15:40 (two years ago) link
It's ilx, we go high.
― xyzzzz__, Monday, 27 September 2021 15:41 (two years ago) link
Thanks for thought KM. To me trolling in general just means low-quality or bad faith discussion. I feel like regarding the specifics of this vote, there was a valid concern which was initially raised and after we thoroughly flogged that dead horse, the discussion promptly sank into a bog of ideology-based slapfighting. Honestly I do respect everyone who posts here so none of this is meant to be personal. But in what way does it serve the quality of discussion at all to chime in with “ABC otm” when the only point I could abc actually making was frankly a pretty lazy straw man. It is a very valid observation that much of this is personality driven. Like if we had an abstract discussion of the role of Israeli nationalism in the gatekeeping that occurs among center-left (ok I’m being generous) political parties in West, it seems likely there would be much more common ground among various positions represented here, but as is this has gotten quite personal, quite quickly. I’m also out of the loop in terms of recent posting history here so maybe there is some background I’m missing.
― recovering internet addict/shitposter (viborg), Monday, 27 September 2021 15:59 (two years ago) link
typos, plz let me know if anything’s unclear
― recovering internet addict/shitposter (viborg), Monday, 27 September 2021 16:01 (two years ago) link
Like it's possible and even okay to say 'this vote sucks' or 'this vote makes me think less of AOC' without saying 'lol, guess AOC will be voting for us to invade China soon, lol lol'.
― Marty J. Bilge (Old Lunch), Monday, 27 September 2021 16:05 (two years ago) link
xp makes sense to me viborg! i should say, too, that personally i don't think it's a huge deal to be unclear, either. the world unclear right now (imo)
also old lunch otm with that. again, i skipped a lot upthread, but that's because i know that it's full of that kind of stuff. hard to take at length
― typo hell #5: maybe you get an idea of what went into, or (Karl Malone), Monday, 27 September 2021 16:09 (two years ago) link
It's hardly wild speculation to say AOC will go to shit based on what we've seen last week.
Sorry if I'm not respecting posting tradition in doing so.
― xyzzzz__, Monday, 27 September 2021 16:13 (two years ago) link
Cynicism, that's where I'm a viking
― Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Monday, 27 September 2021 16:16 (two years ago) link
viborg, the issue really is that *any* valid criticism of AOC is immediately read as "Leftists of ILX being misogynist purity police." Of course, this latter phenomenon does happen, but what I see more of is people ready to jump down the proverbial throats of anyone who dares to question AOC and her bullshit performative Leftism.
― I'm a sovereign jazz citizen (the table is the table), Monday, 27 September 2021 16:18 (two years ago) link
Perhaps it's because they don't agree that it's "bullshit performative Leftism"
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, 27 September 2021 16:23 (two years ago) link
I'm not sure that xyz's stance is any more cynical than you have to be prepared for awful votes, don't be a dummy and expect better.
― papal hotwife (milo z), Monday, 27 September 2021 16:24 (two years ago) link
who exactly is being the dummy
― Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Monday, 27 September 2021 16:28 (two years ago) link
xpost @ the table is the tableRight that’s certainly fair. I’m far from wedded to the party and I know the feeling of being shut out by the accepted Overton window or whatever. But I’m mostly with Old Lunch, when xyzzzz__ mentioned the events of last week, that’s mainly referring to the Israel vote and her fashion choices right?Hopefully we can all agree that while the fashion choices might be significant in terms of optics, the actual relevance to her policy positions is not so crucial. Again the initial criticism of the Israel vote was not unwarranted. However the context is also fairly unique, especially imo considering how Corbyn has been pilloried for his support for Palestine, and in New York in particular, criticism of Israel is basically the third rail of politics — untouchable. That’s really neither here nor there though, I’m taking sides which right now seems mostly counter-productive. The arguments have already been laid out, the only real contribution I had to make was trying to make a somewhat balanced and objective case for quality of discussion. I seem to be mainly expert at failure these days so if this was another L for me then that’s par for the course. (Is that a mixed metaphor? I can take an L at golf right? Fuck golf tbh, it should be illegal.)
― recovering internet addict/shitposter (viborg), Monday, 27 September 2021 16:34 (two years ago) link
I'm not that invested in this particular argument but I mistrust how much energy there is for taking apart a non-white woman elected official in the landscape of terrible elected officials.
If she had voted otherwise in this instance would it have changed anything?
― Ima Gardener (in orbit), Monday, 27 September 2021 16:34 (two years ago) link
It doesn't remove the moral blight of her vote. She disappointed many of us precisely because we did expect better.
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 27 September 2021 16:39 (two years ago) link