Genesis Live

guess I'll be the person to say that these videos were much better than I expected. I do hope they come to the west coast but Phil's recent comments that this wouldn't go on past 2021 don't give me much hope for that.

yeah when singers lose their voice it happens pretty fast; Greg Lake for instance sounded pretty good on the Emerson, Lake, and Powell album (even if his voice deepened considerably), 6 years later on Black Moon he sounded horrible. I did read a good article about the injuries singers do to their voice when they don't sing properly (which I assume almost none of the rock singers of the 60s and 70s did) and yeah that surgery seems to help things considerably. So when you see someone like Todd Rundgren, who sounds almost as good now as he did back then, you wonder if they got it done, much like you wonder about any 60+ actor with a full head of hair

Gordon Lightfoot comes to mind - if you listen to his post-Edmund Fitzgerald albums chronologically (which I don't recommend you do) you can pretty much hear exactly when it started. his voice was completely shot by the age of 55 but he's still played like 30 years of shows after that. I've seen a few (he sure loves touring around Wisconsin) and it's a little sad to see...he looks fine for his age but he's skeletal and frail, far from the rugged woodsman he portrayed in his heyday, and his voice has lost all its richness and depth. fwiw Phil Collins doesn't sound that bad...you can hear that old man quiver when he tries to hold a note and I'd be nervous to watch a full show of this, but I've seen worse. seeing him up there looking like Mr. Magoo is pretty depressing though. this whole tour seems like a big mistake but hey, at least the band sounds alright

The tour's obvs been delayed a bunch, I wonder if he was in better shape when it was originally booked, and now they're on the hook for £££s if he were to cancel. We can all say "He doesn't need the money" but I wouldn't be surprised if he's been a bit shitty with his cash, for example the three divorces and getting lamped by the fake Alamo gear salesman.

I figured Phil might not be playing drums, but wondered if there was maybe some token almost-drum-solo or drum duo moment in the shows. Evidently not.

Daltrey was pretty hit-or-miss on the '06 through roughly '09 Who tours (a couple of shows were stopped one or two songs in when it was obvious he had no voice), but as JiC noted, his throat surgery made a massive difference. Yes, there's some autotune on WHO -- I can think of two tracks off the top of my head where it's obvious (three if you count one of the Pete bonus tracks) -- but there's a live "bonus" CD of an early 2020 acoustic show where he sounds as good as he's sounded since 1978. There were two pre-taped screams on the '15-'19 Who tours, in "Love, Reign O'er Me" and "Won't Get Fooled Again." I think that's acceptable: for one thing, he was doing those screams live through 2012 or so, and for another, the guy's in his mid '70s, and can't reasonably be expected to do those screams every night. Or any night.

But Daltrey always took exceptional care of his voice, and never took it for granted. Hell, in the '70s he was so intent on getting enough sleep after every show that he got addicted to Mandrax.

I was listening to Springsteen's Passaic '78 show the other night, when he was on the cusp of 30, and I marveled (as he must) at all of the extra singing, screaming, grunting, just making *sounds* he does, just to make things that much more exciting. It's amazing that guy, now on the cusp of 72, still sounds at all like he does, even if he (and no one else?) will never again sound like he did.

I assume singers of this vintage who've (mostly) maintained their voice have been doing serious vocal calisthenics, mainlining lemon-ginger tea etc. the way Tom Brady or Lebron use personal trainers year-round to stay limber.

jeez - tickets for this tour are ridiculously expensive too

i still hope they add west coast US dates :(

Currently listening to a boot of the second night and hooo boy, it's a tough listen. PC has this unpleasant tonality to his voice now. Plus the kays are lowered in some songs, TIOA is in G now and it sounds sluggish.

"Mama" basically sounds like 'Old Man River' now, from the vid I saw. like it was already lowered a few steps 13 years ago, now it's almost unrecognizable.

and he does have a weird, elfish nasal quality to his voice, which I suspect is because he's having trouble generating enough energy to produce proper tone.

All he needs now is a Slipperman costume.

The saddest thing about the clips I've seen is Phil swiveling around on his chair, like any of us might do absentmindedly while toiling away at a desk.

xpost More like bedroom slippers, right?

Other than looking like he's slowly collapsing which isn't his fault in the main, you'd think someone would say 'Hey Phil, perhaps have a shave when you go out in front of the many thousands of people who are paying £130+ to see you', he looks like absolute shit. The whole thing is shabby.

AH can't dance
AH can't shit
Only thing about me is the way I sit

I cross-referenced this thread with the Genesis subreddit and thankfully that one's a bit more cheery.

The final four UK tour dates have (inevitably) been postponed after a couple of (unidentified) band members tested positive for Covid.

They were invisibly touched

lol

I just saw a clip of them doing Home by the Sea in I think Buffalo, and wow did Phil sound so thin and weak, and the band just mechanical in its execution. So glad I (er) sat this tour out.

I don't get it - not one of the yes-men on this cynical money grabbing exercise had the balls to say "Look, Philip, you've been great and everything, but this doesn't work. We're taking (think Adam Lambert & Queen, someone great like that) on tour with us." ? I hope they're proud of their profits, at least.

Still wish they'd add an LA date

yeah I will go if this comes to the west coast. I wasn't about to travel for it, but if it's in CA, I'm absolutely going. I managed to miss every tour they have ever done.

Phil is clearly limited but the show in Glasgow was fantastic - I was pleasantly surprised at how well he carried it compared to the rehearsal clip that came out previously

What did you think of his son's drumming? I think he sounds fine but Phil's playing has so much character and his son ... not so much.

This is the clip I saw, btw. Maybe it sounded better there, but this is some weak sauce, imo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYPaUdSXLFw

If someone makes it a point to see them every time they tour, go for it. If someone has always wanted to see them (like, bucket list item) and hasn't yet, well, I guess now's the time.

I am in neither camp and will pass on seeing this, for all the reasons discussed.

I never noticed anything lacking about Nic's drumming really... was impressed how well he replicated the superior live arrangement of Afterglow

There's something odd about how Phil is singing consistently behind the beat, I wonder if it's a result of pain medication, of some sort.

If you look at clips from 2019, Phil already sounds noticeably worst, imo.

I don't think Nic Collins is bad at all, he just lacks a certain spark. Like Jason Bonham vs. John. But, for example, I think Zak Starkey is a pretty good son-of drummer.

(Worse, not worst. No matter how decrepit, Phil Collins is still far from the worst.)

Purportedly the last ever Genesis concert at the O2 last night. Gabriel was in the audience and really should have joined them onstage at some point, the fact that he didn't leaves a nasty taste in my mouth. Obviously I don't know if consideration was given to inviting him onstage or not. If he wasn't invited, he should have been. If he was invited, he should have accepted.

yeah that's a bummer.

Maybe because it would have required rehearsal & planning, Tony Banks doesn't seem the type to spontaneously busk through the hits. Or anything else, come to that.

Disappointing for fans, but they're amicably fine with it. At least it looked that way judging from this photo:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FO0k0sIWYAEaoGA?format=jpg&name=900x900

Reportedly someone in the crowd called for "Supper's Ready," and Collins mentioned that Gabriel was in the crowd, although he wasn’t sure where he was sitting. After that got a big round of applause, Collins joked that maybe Gabriel was the one calling out for "Supper's Ready."

More photos someone took of that final show - I guess they had a front row seat and a really good camera.

As a fan, the whole idea of this tour is a bummer to me, Collins is singing very poorly, his voice has changed and sounds unattractive, like some cartoonish goblin. His presence, sitting, sometimes half-slumped in a chair is jarring, the idea that he's possibly in pain and/or medicated, also.

I feel bad for everyone involved, it's a troubling way to end things. I've watched a multitude of clips and listened to boots and, imho, the whole thing is just a fucking horrorshow.

Yeah I’ve seen Gordon Lightfoot somewhat recently and got the same feeling. Appreciate the man but didn’t like seeing him like that. Every clip of this tour I’ve seen I always cringe at what Phils voice sounds like. Had they not planned this before the pandemic I don’t think it would’ve happened at all.

I was never going to see the tour myself, but it brought to mind a lot of debate over some bad tours with elderly musicians in recent years - it's hard to tell them to stay put when they're the ones demanding to be out there, in some cases because they know it may be the last time they get to experience what it's like to be on stage and surrounded by adoring fans. Yeah, there's the money obviously, but even if there was none to be made, I'd do the same in their shoes, pain be damned. If they dedicated and sacrificed so much of their life to get that, it's no surprise they'd want to hold on to it for as long as they can.

I guess the reality is we've never been in a situation where musical legends are still playing to arenas in their 80s or thereabouts before. Like, most of the blues and jazz all-timers were gone before that age and their appeal had become more selective. Whereas artists like Genesis and The Who and the Stones could keep selling out the big halls on their rep alone for the rest of their lives. I can't say I don't understand someone wanting to say they'd seen a band that they loved, but I had no desire to catch these shows (and they weren't even that great when I saw them at Knebworth in 92 or whenever).

Which is thirty years ago. Fucking hell, I'm old too.

(Saw the Who in 2019 and they were pretty great tbh)

Collins is only 71, younger than my parents, it's kind of shocking to me to see him looking like that.

When I was a teenager my Dad took me to see a few older jazz/blues musicians at the Glasgow Jazz festival, he wanted to see them at least once before the possibility of them not touring became a reality, which I totally understand and I can see why devoted fans would feel the need to go see Genesis, despite the current presentation.

But I'm sure none of those people had such debilitating health issues and the tickets were probably like £30 (in today's money) not £100++

I just grabbed a recording of the last night to hear it, he doesn't sound *too* bad maybe, idk, certainly his timing is better than the earlier shows I heard, pitching is still pretty wild tho, but I'm listening to the last tune (Carpet Crawlers), and feeling a little sad that the music that I've listened to since I was a young 'un won't ever be rendered live again.

They ended with Carpet Crawlers? That's a bit of a heart-breaker.

Wonder which music means the most to Phil overall, Genesis or his solo stuff?

I saw them in November and again last night and Phil has improved massively since back then.

If they dedicated and sacrificed so much of their life to get that, it's no surprise they'd want to hold on to it for as long as they can.

The first concert I ever saw was Count Basie And His Orchestra in early 1983. Count was 78.

I’m seeing the Who at MSG in May. Roger Daltrey is 78.

I mean if we're talking age as a factor, having seen Sparks twice recently, Ron's 76 and Russell's 73; they have the advantage that their backing band is all younger by some decades, and I did note that there's been a second keyboardist added. But Ron didn't seem any different at all, steadily playing away looking nonplussed as he always does, occasional vocal moments aside (and he still does the Ron dance). Russell was all over the stage, singing away as he always does. Maybe it's all that comfortable SoCal living.