REM: Classic or dud?

There's a bit about this in Lurie's Begin the Begin: R.E.M.'s Early Years:

... The only difficulty arose over the final mix of "Radio Free Europe." As the label owner and person footing the bill for the sessions, Hibbert felt he should have final say on how the record sounded. Not only did Easter see this as encroachment into his territory, he also actively disagreed with Hibbert's production choices, claiming that Hibbert's mix sounded "murkier than the original mix" (i.e. the Cassette Set version). Peter Buck agreed. It's unclear if the others cared one way or the other. ... In June, the band went to the neutral ground of Bombay Studios to do a comparison test between Hibbert's mix and an alternate mix that Easter had done on his own. R.E.M. came down in favor of the Easter mix, but it made no difference: Hibbert sent his own mix to be mastered. "I put my foot down," he says. "I was probably the last person to ever do that to them."

I think the "original Hib-Tone single" version included on And I Feel Fine is the same one that's on the original 45, but I don't have a turntable available to compare them directly.

Yeah - that’s posted on YT by remhq, and it does sound “murkier”/different from the version I know from Eponymous.

(I like it better, actually…!)

https://pitchfork.com/features/5-10-15-20/michael-stipe-on-the-music-that-made-him/

I have never read an REM bio or anything. Has he talked a lot before about his year of depression, or almost going blind?

I've definitely known about his depression around that time; but the temporary blindness seems new, at least to me(?) Great piece, btw.

the robyn story is cute

And here I was convinced Al was going to share his latest worst-of: https://humanizingthevacuum.wordpress.com/2021/11/10/ill-take-the-rain-my-least-favorite-r-e-m-songs/

Glad he didn't crap all over Up. I like that record, even if it's a bit of a late period outlier.

It was a great final album.

Does he really like Reveal best?

"We Walk" is a fine song, though I admit I have an affection for it because it's mentioned in the poem of a dear friend.

Up is the last album of theirs I listened to. Among my favorites.

That blindness episode was around 1985, there's footage of him playing in Toronto with a bandage over his eyes.

I enjoy about half of the songs on that worst-of list! "Parakeet" in particular strikes me as a successful final attempt at the mystery of the Murmur era. I agree about "Chorus and the Ring", that was the song that made me think, "they don't even know what they're trying to do anymore".

I could have listed easily nine of the 1033 songs on Reveal.

The worst moment on Reveal - in a song I otherwise enjoy - is the laboriously programmed synthesized or sampled acoustic guitar strum opening "Summer Turns to High", used instead of actually getting Peter Buck (or anybody) to strum an acoustic guitar one time.

Karl: but I'm the guy who stands on stage waving his arms around like a floppy car wash man. that's what I do.

Rick: look, we've lost Michael Stipe, so just forget about him. we have to try something we've never done before if we're going to survive. you're singing on this track!

The worst moment on _Reveal_ - in a song I otherwise enjoy - is the laboriously programmed synthesized or sampled acoustic guitar strum opening "Summer Turns to High", used instead of actually getting Peter Buck (or anybody) to strum an acoustic guitar one time.

Who doesn’t like We Walk or Swan Swan H? Someone I guess. Imo Wrong Child is a great showcase for Stipe at his most passionate and lovably-slightly-out-of-tune. I still get Just a Touch and CGTFH mixed up but I love the tempo change to “Kevin heard it on the radio”. I think it was Berry or Buck who said that brass sections sound wrong in REM songs, and they were right.

I’d add “Disappear” to the list. “I’ll Take The Tain” was the first song to really take me back with its terribleness, especially the opening Stipe falsetto.

If I could vote half a song I’d vote for “Diminished”. The verse is boring and off-putting; the chorus is one of their sweetest (“sing along…”).

“just a touch” is a banger imo

i've been listening to life's rich pageant all night, prompted by stipe's mentions of These Days and I Believe as those songs that came to him just before he apparently opened his eyes and was never the same person again (according to him)

Yeah I was willing to agree to disagree about that list until it got to "Just a Touch," come on

Also, "Can't Get There From Here" is better than "So. Central Rain"

Just put this on to hear it and … there isn’t any opening acoustic guitar? It’s all synths for about thirty seconds. Do you mean the second verse?

This is very strange, for the last 20 years I'd have sworn there was a fake guitar strum when Stipe's vocal starts. Listening now, all I hear is a metallic fake cymbal crash. The song does have a preponderance of overdubbed junk getting in the way of the nice chord changes and melody though.

“Camera” is great. “Good Advices” has an “s” on the end (and is also, like, a terrific song… wtf?). I dig “We Walk” and “Swan,” but fair enough on the others (some of which I don’t even know/recall).

…I like “Just a Touch,” too. (Still flummoxed that a purported R.E.M. fan could dislike “Good Advices”… it seems so clearly in their top tier of songs.)

I could have listed easily nine of the 1033 songs on Reveal.

― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, November 10, 2021 2:41 PM

accurate assessment. that album is about eight years long. and not a memorable hook to be found. yeesh.

"we walk" always been a personal favorite. it's like a very polite iteration of early cure. "camera" definitely one of their most divisive songs — i think it's fine.

Alfred Soto: wrong on 1. Swan Swan H. Wrong on America.

we walk, ok, maybe on relevant terms with the rest of the album. although i personally would never want it removed from murmur. "take oasis!" but to put it as the song that is slightly worse than "I'LL TAKE THE RAIN?"?!?! wrong for america

accurate assessment. that album is about eight years long. and not a memorable hook to be found. yeesh.

Somebody's not goin' all the way to Reno...

My god they absolutely should have called it quits after Berry left. I still basically like Up and, god help me, even most of Reveal, but to anyone who wasn’t already a fan they’ll sound labored, dated, overproduced, because they are.

Still, “Swan Swan H” their very worst? Alfred - explain yourself, man!

Swan, swan, hummingbird, hurrah
We are all free now
What noisy cats are we
Girl and dog, he bore his cross
Swan, swan, hummingbird, hurrah
We are all free now
A long, low time ago
People talk to me
Johnny Reb, what's the price of fans
Forty apiece or three for one dollar?
Hey, Captain, don't you want to buy
Some bone chains and toothpicks
Night wings, or hair chains?
Here's your wooden greenback, sing
Wooden beams and dovetail sweep
I struck that picture ninety times
I walked that path a hundred ninety
Long, low time ago, people talk to me
A pistol hot, cup of rhyme
The whiskey is water, the water is wine
Marching feet, Johnny Reb
What's the price of heroes?
Six of one, half dozen the other
Tell that to the captain's mother
Hey, captain, don't you want to buy
Some bone chains and toothpicks?
Night wings, or hair chains?
Swan, swan, hummingbird, hurrah
We're all free now
What noisy cats are we
Long, low time ago, people talk to me
A pistol hot cup of rhyme
The whiskey is water, the water is wine

I struck that picture ninety times
I walked that path a hundred ninety

weird little things that stick with you nonetheless, airtight through the years

Did Michael Stipe just try to take some credit for Born Slippy?

"Then they went on to record “Born Slippy,” and [Underworld’s] Karl Hyde stepped in as a singer because they needed a track for Trainspotting, which was a big musical touchpoint for a lot of people back then. I think my refusing to sing kind of pushed Karl to step forward and helped that song become the incredible song that it is."

https://pitchfork.com/features/5-10-15-20/michael-stipe-on-the-music-that-made-him/

I've definitely known about his depression around that time; but the temporary blindness seems new, at least to me(?) Great piece, btw.

― juristic person (morrisp), Wednesday, November 10, 2021 9:58 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

I like the fussy overproduced style of Reveal, it sounds soporific but in a good way, some of it reminds me a bit of the High Llamas. the fiddly denseness of the production has the vibe being lightly drunk on a summery day, this a kind of pleasant insulation from the real world, retreating into an endlessly detailed daydream. I like the contrast between the songs on Up that suggest fluorescent lights and neon, and the sunshine brightness of Reveal

We played a festival in Belgium where Lou Reed was also performing, and I met him that day. He wasn’t terribly friendly to me

lol

Wasn't Karl Hyde the singer for Underworld since the 80s?

I get he's saying he 'stepped forward' to assume vocal duties on that song but it sounds like he never knew he sang in the first place

yeah i really have no idea what stipe is talking about there

Somebody's not goin' all the way to Reno...

― Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain),

I like that one, despite, yeah, sounding labored.

Reveal signifies a shift for me in that it becomes much more the Michael Stipe band than pretty much anything before; by design and/or by production values he is 'centered' in that album that is at times unflattering, especially when there isn't enough of Buck and Mills - as we recognise them - in and around him to provide relief

Tbh such a stylised direction in terms of sound and approach wasn't what I was after from REM at that point, and tbh certainly not 'that' direction - I was practically begging for a New Adventures II in 2001. I still think the latter approach would have masked some of Stipe's lyrical deficiencies that were IMO creeping in on Reveal, rather than amplifying them

Underworld without a tune to spare Stipe in 1995 lolll (there've been two big box sets with unheard extras from their 94 and 96 albums). Weird. FWIW they worked with Bono around this time too and I don't think we've heard anything out of that. It is funny to know they reached out to another big singer.

"Going on to" do Born Slippy... would've been a month after the Monster tour was in London (original vinyl release of the single). And yeah Karl has been a frontman since the 80s.

“Camera” is the most effective 3rd-Velvet-Underground-album pastiche ever. Luna and Yo La Tengo have spent the bulk of their careers not approaching it.

Luna and YLT's tributes move, though.

I love YLT, Luna less so (I felt like their “tribute” was ultimately “schtick”), but for me, neither were able to pull off the dynamic swells of “Camera.” I think YLT came closest with “My Heart’s Reflection,” but both bands are missing the spooky contemplation/contemplative spookiness of “Camera.”

Camera feels very singular to me; I can’t think of another song quite like it.

Ha, was just thinking the same thing

somewhat of a similar mood to Perfect Circle

Another song that doesn't sound like any of their others. . . until you get to Automatic

I think Mills is the key to both songs—his playing anchors “Perfect Circle” and gives it weight; and “Camera” is this static, mysterious ballad that somehow turns into a country song, thanks to his bassline in the chorus.