LINE OF DUTY: cop-on-cop action TV procedural that demands analysis

I'm stoked for the madness, going to dip in tonight. And I see that fella from Sex Education is in this too.

I'm watching it, like the novelty of the nightmarish sub setting, although it's already ridiculously formulaic outside of that.

I'm enjoying it too, it's like a supergroup for Sunday night cop dramas.

The thematic convenience of the lead copper's backstory is so brazen it's almost matrix-breaking. ("A death underwater in an enclosed space? Let's send our best copper, the one who's husband died recently underwater in an enclosed space. QED!")

Yes, Chuck Tatum's last point is fair - this plot element is absurd.

It's frustrating how the detective has agreed (did she have any choice?) to do this exceptionally challenging job, and as soon as she starts it, she is utterly undermined by the people who are supposed to be enabling her investigation - saying "You're under my command", "You can only talk to this suspect for 30 seconds, while walking", etc.

In a sense she should be able to say: If you're not going to let me do the job, I won't do it - let me off on the promised "raft" ASAP.

A more positive way to put that is that the programme hinges on authority - the authority of the police vs that of the Navy. It shows you how much the LoD police benefit from their authority, when interrogating people, being so strong. (Though come to think of it, even in LoD that authority is questioned and one element of the force is pitted against another.)

I feel like the constant "undermining" is what makes the story interesting (apart from the setting).

We're used to TV coppers having free access to everything and everyone -- so it's fun and satisfying when the suspects are, like, "fuck off, I'm not telling you" - which feels like a much more realistic response!

From an ACAB perspective, we're (I suppose) supposed to like the detective, because the baddies are even more authoritarian than she is.

The mystery itself (the poison, the heroin, etc.) is locked-room-Christie-by-numbers so far.

so it's fun and satisfying when the suspects are, like, "fuck off, I'm not telling you" - which feels like a much more realistic response!

I don't share this reaction. I find it unsatisfying, frustrating, even mildly upsetting - as this detective has already made such a sacrifice just to do this job.

But I also don't concur with your premise - in fact, I have an opposite view - because a thing that I notice a great deal on detective dramas is ordinary people being aloof, evasive or insulting with cops, in a way that could not happen in real life.

Many examples of this on THE BRIDGE where Saga Noren & partner will drive to a farmhouse, warehouse or whatever to interview the owner, who will vaguely give them 30 seconds of his time, while still attending to something else, and may make a dismissive remark about the police.

To a lesser extent, I think the same dynamic occurs in LoD.

Presumably in reality they'd sit the person down in a private place (even at their own business), that person would be quite nervous and scared, they'd give the police as long as they wanted (the idea that you could say 'I've got work to do' as a way to cut a police interrogation short! Absurd!), respectfully answer everything they were asked, and be effusively polite as the police left.

The VIGIL submarine crew have a rationale (Navy authority) for enacting an extreme version of this, I think, very unrealistic typical 'member of the public' behaviour.

I often used to shout at The Bridge "just threaten to arrest them for obstruction of justice!"

Yes.

to do this exceptionally challenging job, and as soon as she starts it, she is utterly undermined by the people who are supposed to be enabling her investigation - saying "You're under my command", "You can only talk to this suspect for 30 seconds, while walking", etc.

Amusingly for me, even though my job is not IMPORTANT and LIFECHANGING, this has often been my experience as a contractor.

It's frustrating how the detective has agreed (did she have any choice?)

Her colleague (and lover?) asks this explicitly on the drive to the helicopter. "Could you have said no?" And the detective just gives a blank look and says "It didn't come up". It doesn't occur to her to say no. She's a 'good solider' in her way. Trust is put in her, she's the best detective her boss has got. She's going to get on with it.

In a sense she should be able to say: If you're not going to let me do the job, I won't do it - let me off on the promised "raft" ASAP.

See above. This is clearly not the kind of person she is. I'd suggest that pretty much every detective protagonist in the history of literature is not this kind of person. Good drama in the conventional sense requires going through the problem, not walking away from it.

A more positive way to put that is that the programme hinges on authority - the authority of the police vs that of the Navy. It shows you how much the LoD police benefit from their authority, when interrogating people, being so strong. (Though come to think of it, even in LoD that authority is questioned and one element of the force is pitted against another.)

Yes, and I'd say the conflict in this is generated pretty much the same way that it is in LoD. Coppers arresting coppers. Is that possible? Who's in charge? Where does power come from? The stars on your uniform? The precision of your arguments? Who you can persuade?

Vigil is LoD with the difficulty setting turned up to 'Extreme'. The wall of silence and distrust thicker and higher. No way of sending a message. But essentially the same sorts of tensions and questions. And the delicious moment when a dickhead gets his comeuppance!

I'd say it's a founding principle of LoD there is a strong sense that AC-12 *does* have the formal authority to haul anyone in, and the other branches of the police have to go along with it. This level of authority is something I like about the scenario.

But this is eroded along the way, up to the end of the last series where, as I recall, AC-12 is virtually closed down.

I agree that it's pleasurable when the unpleasant officer is arrested and forced to confess in VIGIL #2 - though it switches very quickly to an implication that he's not the true villain, is more sympathetic than we'd thought, etc.

I can't find anything to say about this but it's fine and I'll keep watching

I have watched a couple of episodes but I am struggling a bit. Fair points on good soldier/conflict Tracer, but she really, really shouldn't have agreed to go on the boat with her water/confinement issues, or someone in the office should have thought it through & not sent her (there are also points where I'm thinking 'jfc let them get on with fixing the nuclear reactor, the murder can wait' but that's why I am not a TV detective).

Maybe LoD has spoiled me, but I am finding Rose Leslie's investigations undramatic or clunky - she just asks people things and they tell her. If I were an anti-nuclear protestor, I'm not sure I'd talk to a cop just because they say 'I'm not the navy & won't tell the navy anything, promise'. I started thinking it's some kind of rebuff to the LoD dramatic/complex interrogation, but prob just clumsy.

It's like plot is driving character maybe.

Also finding performances a bit off, even from actors I usually like (Paterson Joseph, Sex Ed Adam). Suranne Jones & the coxswain only ones cutting through for me.

I'll keep watching tho.

she just asks people things and they tell her

Sometimes they don't tell them something important like a password but then do, a little bit later, moments before they snuff it in the most telegraphed manner possible

Some of it is so formulaic I am literally saying the lines along with the characters e.g. 'she's my daughter' by that politician

It's kind of good old-fashioned fun I suppose.

I tend to agree with these criticisms.

It's sadly no LoD.

I agree with all of these criticisms but Suranne is watchable enough even in terrible things that I forgive them everything (bar them naming the wrong road where the multi storey car park was - if you're using a real street name, use the right one)

It's frustrating how the detective has agreed (did she have any choice?) to do this exceptionally challenging job, and as soon as she starts it, she is utterly undermined by the people who are supposed to be enabling her investigation - saying "You're under my command", "You can only talk to this suspect for 30 seconds, while walking", etc.

More of this last night. These minor characters keeping letting loose a few tantalizing words, then they quickly shuffle off with a "I shouldn't even be talking to you!" Why not? Isn't this a sanctioned investigation?

I was excited by reference to Renfrew Street (late in episode 3). I no longer recall whether it has said car park on it or not.

I quite like seeing Glasgow on screen, but then, would really like to see more of it. Maybe I should ... watch a programme that isn't mainly set on a submarine.

Last night (4/6): the plot seems to be getting ever more dense with fairly random new elements - Russian spies? Do we get aliens in episode 5?

Unlike others, I don't greatly enjoy watching Suranne Jones, and also didn't greatly enjoy watching the two women's protracted, gradual flashback flirtation, etc, last night. But I can imagine that some feel very differently about this.

I quite enjoy watching the submarine Captain.

I suppose I'm a bit disappointed on balance because the 'from the creators of LoD', for me, sets the bar so high, but without 'from the creators of LoD' I might not be watching.

As with the last season of LoD and Bodyguard, there are so many elements of this that feel jarringly bad / clunky, even in comparison to a lot of the BBC’s middling drama output. I don’t know whether greater autonomy on the part of the producers is leading to the dialogue / plotting coming over like a first draft.

Of course but that directly conflicts with other obligations of duty - real or imagined - and other chains of command, other sanctioned operations. This show, even more than LoD, is a lot about sovereignty and what legitimises that sovereignty in the minds of its executors.

I like how MI5 swoop in and suddenly it’s Longacre et al who are uncooperative. “What did you tell them?” “As little as possible.”

xposts The “you’re a decent man” line definitely clanked. Felt like there was probably a scribbled note next to it in the script saying “Insert real words here”

I think that’s part of the problem for me. MI5, the Navy command, even the police to some extent, never feel like fleshed out structures, in the way that AC12, the LoD commissioner’s office do. The ‘clash of institutions’ element falls flat if you don’t know or care enough about the institutions.

That's well said.

I do, though, like the senior copper, Longacre's boss, who almost always seems to do the right thing and protect his own officers.

But this reminds me to say: I'm not sure that a spy, working under some kind of diplomatic immunity, would be able to commit murder and assault a police officer, and walk away from it because of the diplomatic immunity.

That sounded to me like narrative vaguery posturing as serious realpolitik talk.

was excited by reference to Renfrew Street (late in episode 3). I no longer recall whether it has said car park on it or not.

It doesn't have a car park on it. I'm fairly sure the car park was the one on Waterloo Street.

I'm not sure that a spy, working under some kind of diplomatic immunity, would be able to commit murder and assault a police officer, and walk away from it because of the diplomatic immunity.

pretty sure that this is possible even if not a spy : harry dunn case ?

Right but she fled before she was identified. This guy was in cuffs with evidence everywhere. It felt off to me too.

Agree that the cultures of the different agencies aren't very fleshed out and it would be better if they were. I do feel like the life on the submarine is well done. It feels real. Although this does seem like possibly the most dysfunctional sub crew ever assembled in the history of the British navy!

But this reminds me to say: I'm not sure that a spy, working under some kind of diplomatic immunity, would be able to commit murder and assault a police officer, and walk away from it because of the diplomatic immunity.

My knowledge of diplomatic immunity comes solely from Lethal Weapon 3 where AIUI you can do whatever the hell you like until someone shoots you and says 'Revoked!!!'

Tracer Hand's comments are OTM.

Worst. Crew. Ever.

And yes, I would have thought, a difference between a diplomat who has returned to their home nation, and someone who has been arrested and is being interrogated for murder in another country.

If you’re attached to the London consulate, you can’t be arrested for anything unless your government waives the right. If you’re not, you can potentially be arrested for extremely serious crimes.

she just asks people things and they tell her

I used to enjoy the original CSI until i realise the guilty party never lied, they just hadnt been asked the right question yet

Although this does seem like possibly the most dysfunctional sub crew ever assembled in the history of the British navy!

Tv writers, above any other similar profession, seem prone to throwing quality control out the window once their name gets big enough to merit mention above the title

i hate when spy stuff extrudes into real-world stuff, spies make nothing real happen and they shd stay contained in their relevant dramaspheres

It’s possible it is a red herring. Not sure how the alternative of ‘ok, they know it’s us but I guess we might as well sink the nuclear submarine anyway’ would play out.

My biggest "hmmm" moment so far was the scene where the submarine narrowly avoided crashing into a ship because... the captain saw it on his periscope first?! Surely nuclear submarine radar technology has improved since the days of Tintin books and my children's bathtime

show should have been called BAD SUBMARINE

Tincan sailor, staller, spy

Latest episode had my worst trope - police instantly knowing what they're looking for because the plot demands it.
The spy has been posting a series of images online, no doubt passing information digitally!
Ah yes, it must be 'hidden in the pixels'. Check the pixels. Oh, there it is.

Unclear why MI5 were **threateningly** chasing Longacre for several days when they just wanted to politely ask her a few questions, then immediately joined her side anyway?

she wasn’t sharing information with them like they’d asked so i guess they felt they had to go in hard.

on a different note, what was the malcontent sailor up to with that set of.. keys or whatever that he took from a locker. and did that have anything to do with his subsequent reporting of a tampered-with lock (which for all the world looked like it had been bought for £5.99 at B&Q)?

The good points are coming in thick and fast and TBH it's not looking great for VIGIL.

Other than Martin Compston, what exactly is the link to LoD? It's marketed as "from the makers of" but none of the writers or creators were involved with LoD so is it just the production company or something?

This week's interview scene with the Russian spy just emphasized that this is very much not LoD

Agree, and GroovyPanda's case is good - we think of this as connected with LoD, but maybe it isn't much.

Latest episode had my worst trope - police instantly knowing what they're looking for because the plot demands it.
The spy has been posting a series of images online, no doubt passing information digitally!
Ah yes, it must be 'hidden in the pixels'. Check the pixels. Oh, there it is.

― kinder,

this.
i genuinely LOL'd when that happened.

Time was, a moment like that would have been greeted with "In the... pixels? But how??" but now everyone's seen the ol' steganography trick so many times that everyone's just, right, fishing pics, it might as well be a public email. Funny how the peace camp protestor is savvy enough to use an "encrypted app" to make undetected phone calls to whoever she wants but the trained GRU operative uses fishing messageboards like it's still 1995?

LOOK I STILL LIKE THE SHOW OKAY ESPECIALLY THE PARTS ON THE BAD SUBMARINE

My other favourite part is tracking when Longacre's hair gets tucked into her turned up coat collar, and when it doesn't. i feel like the former is when she's really buckling down to serious detecting and the latter is when she needs to impress some public persona.

Look maybe I have a thing for her hair, okay? I'm big enough to admit that. I'm still laser focused in my assessments of this piece of television drama. It won't affect my judgment. At all. Mmmmmm hair.

For me, this captures the "vibe" of late-period LOD* - a propulsive and tense narrative, an entertaining mystery, and some enjoyably ridiculous bad writing.

Part of the tension comes, not just from the narrative tension, but the sense that the whole series could teeter into shark-jump territory at any moment.

Also it's a lot better than Vera.

* i.e. seasons 4 and 6, not season 5 which was dreadful

alright mate

The shark, in this series, could be ... an actual shark.

but now everyone's seen the ol' steganography trick so many times

I haven't, Tracer, and have never heard this word before.