Marvel Cinematic Universe, Phase 4 & Beyond (and a chance to change your vote)

Excited to see it, but really there's no way Doctor Strange would agree to do that for Peter Parker is there? He'd just be like "fuck no, kid... you might destroy the universe. I can put glowy stars on your bedroom ceiling though"

― Jaime Pressly and America (f. hazel)

that spell might not be so dangerous otherwise but for what Loki did? which Strange doesn't know. that could be the connection.

Spider-Man: No Way Home comes out December 17th this year, while Dr. Strange in the Multiverse of Madness is out March 25, 2022. Pretty cool to interconnect Sony and Disney/MCU properties that directly, storywise.

The whole thing is a Republic serial with really long episodes.

Shang-Chi seems like it has minimal continuity bullshit. Today that interests me more than crossovers.

Interestingly Shang-Chi was one of the 10 properties Marvel used when starting their movie studio. They could make movies based on the 10 properties, but the properties were also collateral. Hard to tell if it was a movie they were planning to make or just a property that they didn't care about losing.

wmc otm but they're trying to fold in the TV shows into that continuity and own multiple spaces. didn't republic do that with radio?

Oh neat, Tony Leung is in the new movie? Good

The All Hail the King one shot was kind of cool, might as well milk the streaming platform for fun little things like that (although I really could have lived without them hitting on every prison tv/film cliche in the book in such a short run time - especially the awkward and borderline offensive Justin Hammer cameo).

My son is really disappointed we have to wait 45 days to see Shang-Chi, although I'm wondering if they may relent on that hard deadline if the first couple of weekends fall below expectations. Seems better to grab the $20 premier access money while the iron is hot.

FWIW, All Hail the King is the better part of a decade old now (originally included on the Thor: The Dark World Blu-ray).

Haha, I had no idea. Probably because that is one of the few we never bothered to buy on Blu-Ray.

I know I'm late with this but I felt the science-fictional premise of Loki never coalesced into something that even pretended to try to have rules or make sense and that really diminished the show for me. Does a new timeline split off when somebody literally messes with the timeline by time-travelling, which is what MCU Loki did? Or is that all those timelines already existed in parallel? But in that case what makes some Lokis variants that need to be pruned while presumably billions of others just toodle along in their parallel timelines? Like, fundamentally, why in the end would Kang's forces have been specifically grabbing Sylvie-Loki out of her timeline in her childhood?

They only needed to prune timelines that would somehow eventually lead to another Kang existing and another "warring timeline"

Time travel/alternate reality plots suck. I'm so over them. I know the only way to increase the stakes from "Thanos kills half (or all) life in our universe" is to add alternate universes, but the thought of it all makes me pissed. There are no rules, and any rules they make up to try to hand-wave it are stupid and end up getting broken anyway.

I thought it (with a help from Endgame) established that there was only one timeline, that was the point of the TVA? We were never told what marked Sylvie as a variant.

Time travel/alternate reality plots suck. I'm so over them.

I'll admit, I'm deeply underwhelmed that this is apparently going to be the thread running through the Phase 4 films. I hope I'm pleasantly surprised and they do something new + engaging with those hoary fucken concepts, but I do suspect that Phase 1-3 is gonna wind up being the little pocket universe I'll inhabit while most of what comes afterward spins out of (quality) control. Prove me wrong, MCU!

There are no rules, and any rules they make up to try to hand-wave it are stupid and end up getting broken anyway.

Just like superhero comics.

I guess I haven't been paying attention to theatrical releases in general for the past 18 months but it's still genuinely a little shocking to only just realize that Shang-Chi is being released on the actual day of its release. I knew it was coming sometime this year, had no idea it was coming so soon.

I know the only way to increase the stakes from "Thanos kills half (or all) life in our universe"

tbf, the fundamental flaw in the Avengers series of movies is that Thanos killing half the universe never feels like it actually has very high stakes, which I feel like the franchise is kind of implicitly copping to in the What If episode where it's treated as a joke

the fundamental flaw in the Avengers series of movies is that Thanos killing half the universe never feels like it actually has very high stakes

I buy from the external standpoint of "they were going to figure out a way to get everyone back" but not from a narrative standpoint; the primary thrill of Endgame is the desperation driving the Avengers, first to pull off their insane time-travel plan, then to prevent a time-traveling Thanos from undoing their success, and at the end of the movie most of the Asgardians we know are still dead, plus Tony is dead, plus Steve actively chooses himself over his duty or his friends for the first time in the entire series and takes himself out of the team's leadership role and the other person who led the team, Black Widow, is also dead. You still have this group of powerful heroes but all of their recognized leaders are gone and we still don't know who exactly is helming them now; is it Sam? Is it Carol? Is it Rhodey? I'm assuming that is a main narrative driver for the team in Phase 4 as they introduce new characters and elevate secondary ones, like Wanda and Bucky.

The Doctor Strange episode of What If was so good, so trippy. My favorite so far.

Yeah, the Thanos thing did indeed end with three of the MCU's A-list anchors gone for (more or less) good, so that's not nothing.

xp - Agree! Lots of crazy mystic intergalactic creature design.

the fundamental flaw in the Avengers series of movies is that Thanos killing half the universe never feels like it actually has very high stakes

I buy from the external standpoint of "they were going to figure out a way to get everyone back" but not from a narrative standpoint; the primary thrill of Endgame is the desperation driving the Avengers, first to pull off their insane time-travel plan, then to prevent a time-traveling Thanos from undoing their success, and at the end of the movie(...)

I personally think that the stakes were too high and were not resolved in way that left me satisfied.
I mean: I quite adore the MCU but the one thing that I've minded ever since first seeing Endgame is the fact at the end that the five years which had passed since the 'snap' were not undone, which would mean that the universe is not only a gigantic logistic mess afterwards, but also with terribly sad emotional consequences, such as parents having missed out on five years of their children's development or people in relationships having moved on to new partners.
So far, they've managed to carry the mess well enough. Spider-Man: Far From Home addressed some of it at the start in a funnier & better way than I had expected. Falcon & the Winter Soldier went into it fairly well too with the whole idea of the Flag Smashers. But I think it will mostly be treated as a source for jokes or maybe some more plot points, but always remain a mess, and in essence a sombre one at that.

Hulk explained the rules in Endgame which meant that the science of the plot was about as good as it could get; it was made clear that everything that had happened would remain as actual history. I would have strongly preferred it if the Infinity Gems had simply been powerful enough to overrule the rules of time, space and reality and they could have enforced a reset to the moment of the snap.
That might have meant for lesser consequences of the climax of a 22-movie series. I wouldn't have minded.

Who do we actually have confirmed in Phase 4 so far?

Samtain America
Bucky
Ant Man
Dr Strange
Thor
Hulk
The Guardians sans Gamora + Nebula
Wanda (as antagonist?)
Shang Chi
Hawkeye? Ronin? Maybe he’ll do a turn as Goliath at some point?
Wasp
Captain Marvel
Spider-Man

Possible TV crossovers:
Spectrum
Variant Lokis
Wiccan?
Speed?
Kate Bishop?
She-Hulk?

I guess War Machine and some number of Wakandans also should be listed there, too

Ms Marvel (in the Captain Marvel sequel, and her own show)
Blade
Moon Knight maybe?

Both Gamora and Nebula are in the third Guardians film, according to IMDb

In theory white Vision?

I was splitting the hair of this iteration of Gamora not actually being a Guardian in that list but it's more accurate to include her

I guess War Machine and some number of Wakandans also should be listed there, too

― a gentle push against my Wonder Bread face (DJP), Friday, September 3, 2021 10:37 AM (nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

In case you missed the news in the flood of show announcements, Okoye is getting her own Disney+ show. And it sounds like Ironheart is gonna be introduced in the next BP movie ahead of her own Disney+ show so I expect Wakanda to be pushed more to the forefront.

Disappointed to learn just now that the upcoming Moon Girl & Devil Dinosaur show is animated so I guess they won't wind up being officially incorporated into the roster.

Oh, and in case anyone missed the confirmation of what many suspected

https://hips.hearstapps.com/digitalspyuk.cdnds.net/17/45/1510257115-black-panther-new-poster.jpg

lol, never mind the old-ass poster. Letitia Wright just signed a massive multi-picture deal so it's all but confirmed.

lol I was going to say, yeah I think it's safe to say that Letitia Wright is in the first Black Panther flick

I suspected as much but I didn't want to be overly-presumptuous.

is anyone going to see this new movie? feels like it was unwise to release this to theaters only right now.

Nope, gonna have to wait the 45 days until it comes to Disney+. My son was disappointed we have to wait, seeing as how close this came out to his birthday, but not ready to take him, unvaxxed, in a crowded theater (nor does he really want to, he just was hoping it would have been handled like Black Widow).

I'm going, probably Sunday if the day job doesn't get in the way. Maybe tomorrow.

Going back to at least like Iron Man 3, I'd previously seen every MCU on opening weekend. Won't be seeing either of the last two until next month on D+.

And I agree that it's unwise for them to be releasing this the way they're releasing it. I might even say outright stupid.

My guess is a reaction to ScarJo's suit? They have to make good on the "in theaters only" exclusive thing?

Obviously I have no idea what it might mean from a legal standpoint, or what they are contractually obligated to do, but I wouldn't be surprised to see the "Premier Access on D+" kick in after just a few weeks if this underperforms.

I think I read it's going to standard Disney+ sometime in October, just after Black Widow does likewise.

I spent way too much time going "how would her costume affect the way they release these movies, that makes no sense"

xpost - Right, that's the current plan. I'm just wondering it this underperforms they might say, "screw it, let's see if we can milk some more cash out of the Premier Access thing until it hits the free tier". I mean, I know we can't be the only family that would willingly plop down the $20 to watch it sooner but won't go to a theater now.

lol DJP

"i mean sure it's a racist backstory but we're pretending that doesn't exist anymore WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM US HERE"
https://screenrant.com/shang-chi-marvel-china-release-movie-backlash-explained/

i'm guessing the real reason is more related to chloe zhao tbh

Why? I'm assuming that would be the case for Eternals, but not sure why it would impact the Shang-Chi plans.

china being an 800 pound gorilla to marvel studios in general is my thinking?

anyway, if you care (spoilers obviously):
https://www.vulture.com/2021/09/shang-chi-legend-of-the-ten-rings-post-credit-scenes-explained.html

I don’t know what it’s like elsewhere but cinemas in London have not been crowded, or anywhere close to it, since before the pandemic. Even for opening weekends of big blockbusters.

i hope marvel takes advantage of the irony of letitia playing a scientist

“what you’re saying is completely unscientific!”
“i just want you to think for yourself..”