What in God's Green Goodness Are We Up To In Afghanistan?

President Ghani has fled the country.

this would be funny if it weren’t so unfunny

.

but I think Pakistan has secretly (or not so secretly) wanted them back in power for some time; not sure why.

― Andy the Grasshopper, Thursday, August 12, 2021 7:23 PM (three days ago) bookmarkflaglink

It is not a secret, Pakistan feared India would gain a massive foothold in Afghanistan and did a lot to prevent a complete disparition of Talibans, and is a sizeable part of why this whole thing is a failure. Once Russia and Iran started fuel and arm the Talibans it was too late for the US, even if it had the best intentions and a near perfect understanding of the region (it obviously had neither), success was impossible. Transforming a country on that scale is not something you can without neighbourhood nations being active positive stakeholders.

The whole withdrawal thing is a massive red herring if you care about interventionism anyway, I believe we are going to be drone bombing on a scale that we have never seen yet.

good lens to view the lasts 10 years of US policy in Afghanistan isn’t the intelligence/military failures, bad planning, or imperial hubris — but that it essentially became a huge defense spending and private contractor grift there was almost zero incentive to pul the plug on

— BO H (@bo_austin_) August 15, 2021

^^^^

the gravy train will continue via drone, I'm sure

Urgent!!!!

US army is blocking arrival commercial flights to Kabul airport. Many Afghan women were booked in flights to Delhi and Dubai and now they are stuck because US personnel and US citizens are more important than Afghan women who are the main and direct target. #cnn

— AAWA (@aawa_us) August 15, 2021

Watching the parade of retired generals and national security types repeat the crap of the last 20 years reminds me of that quote about the Bourbons: they've learned nothing and forgotten nothing.

The only reason Old Man Biden didn't fall for the drivel (again) this time is his being in the same room when the generals snookered Obama and being in the Senate when the same generals snookered him and Bush.

xpost seeing images of the tarmac at the Kabul airport, it’s a good thing no commercial planes are allowed landing.

fuck off

Foreign Office blocks Afghan students from UK scholarships https://t.co/5jjQlQPlWJ

— Guardian Universities (@GdnUniversities) August 15, 2021

Go ahead Left, land a commercial plane on a tarmac full of people in a city that is under fire.

It’s the american military responsibility to get as many Afghans to safety, not Air India.

um I think it's up to Air India to make that call tbh

or do you still think the US runs the country?

very much in character for the US to do a last "fuck you" to the actual people of Afghanistan"

great fucking job they’re doing if that’s the case, which anyone can tell it never has been xps

It’s the american military responsibility to get [..] Afghans Americans to safety, not fuck Air India and the Afghans who bought tickets.

FTFY

(I do realize they are also evacuating translators fwiw, that seems legit)

or do you still think the US runs the country?

― sleeve, Sunday, August 15, 2021 5:12 PM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

They are, right now, in control of the airport on the military side and the airport itself is under fire.

And no, Air India can not take unilateral decisions of the kind in situations like these, and I have my doubts they will: it would be too big a risk for the pilots and more importantly for people on the ground.

is there no instance of US imperialism you won't defend to your dying breath?

(serious question)

I don’t see US imperialism in seeing a massive security risk, and I don’t see why that risk ought to be taken by civilians at the possible expense of civilians and I’m clear it is up to the US military to clean up that mess.

your version of the US military does not exist. the real one is coordinating with the taliban right now

Clearest indication the British Government will recognise the new goverment led by Taliban, and work with it. This was all planned sometime ago and that is why the Taliban controlled the country within 10 days. US-UK governments purposely allowed this to happen #afghanistan https://t.co/1ly10vGSEC

— مهيار (@Mehiyar) August 15, 2021

xxp I honestly have no idea what that sentence means

mind you, they've been doing it all along, if all those stories about multiple advance surrender negotiations and deals are true. The fearsome peasant warriors mainly talked their way to power.

— jamie k (@jkbloodtreasure) August 15, 2021

go ahead left

Land that plane

dream about me

NEW: Biden admin has curtailed the number of flights to the US for Afghans who worked alongside the US as it prioritizes the evacuation of American personnel from the country, three sources familiar with the situation told CNN.

— Jennifer Hansler (@jmhansler) August 15, 2021

Sorry if someone already posted

https://laurajedeed.medium.com/afghanistan-meant-nothing-9e3f099b00e5

xpost to Raymond: great article, thanks

yeah very good. sad, bitter.

My ex wife asked me about what was up with Kabul earlier tonight while we were waiting to pick up takeout dinner. She didn’t understand the whole thing.

I summarized in a rush, ultimately feeling empty and defeated.

Yeah, that article was a gut punch.

Got into an argument I totally regret with H over this, her taking the line that we should have stayed to protect women’s rights, leaving me in the always horrible position of arguing no we shouldn’t because it’s hopeless and our military isn’t even designed to do that. But it’s still the cynical asshole argument in the moment even if right in the long run. There’s no good position to take. That medium article has it right and I was team taliban.

There are roughly 3.5 billion women on earth. They all deserve good lives. I'm not sure that a nearly unlimited supply of military munitions are the correct means to secure that outcome.

So how do you solve a problem like the Talibans then? Not talking about an US perspective there, but like, how do you secure good lives for the 16 millions women when you face an armed fascist threat.

you are profoundly unqualified to answer that question, that's all I know

OTM

who among us feels qualified to state how to change Afghan society in order to make it accept western liberal ideology? if no one feels qualified, then calling VHS unqualified as all the rest of us isn't exactly a sick burn.

I don’t think it’s a sick burn so much as the point. Even asking the question of what is to be done assumes being in a position of opining on or deciding what is to be done, which I would venture to guess none of us are in or even have the right to be in.

Sometimes the world would be better off if Americans would just say “we aren’t the ones who should answer this question.”

I specified not talking from an US perspective.

then who is the "you" in that question? how is anyone supposed to answer that

are you asking for instructions on how you yourself can carry out a personal delta force mission in kabul

Promoting and facilitating increased immigration from Afghanistan to the US is a thing we could and absolutely will not do.

guys am i understanding correctly that the “security” situation in afghanistan is “deteriorating”

Old Lunch otm. Every person in Afghanistan who wants to come to the US — who dreads living under a newly empowered Taliban — should be allowed to do so.