ILX running running thread

still working through some tendonitis that has mostly cleared up. love my daily run. 15 minute drive to get there then miles of a wood-chipped horse trail, uphill the right amount.

> Not particularly excited about it, sadly

no. i was thinking of getting a shirt printed that said 'i'm hating this'

i started again after 16 months of sofa biscuits. missed sunday's (which would've been jog #15) due to leg / knee pain. will get around the mile-and-a-half of ravenscourt park in one go any week now.

Well, I survived my first run in the University of Montana return to running program (recommended by my excellent PT, whom I miss already).

I only did 6x instead of 7x of the walk/run intervals why because tired. But my knee seems find today, which is somewhat disappointing because it means I have to carry on with this running project.

> no. i was thinking of getting a shirt printed that said 'i'm hating this'

I read "I Hate Running and You Can Too" as a way to procrastinate the actual running thing. I prefer reading about running to actually running.

Admittedly I feel. . . looser? in my joints today? Buts lets be real, I would rather nap than run, always.

Lol. I've done a few fell races recently where large groups have gone the wrong way - usually someone takes a wrong turn and everyone else follows headlessly.

Would-be second finisher sounds a like a bit of a dick tbh. If you go wrong in a race you've only yourself to blame. If the course is one without clear markings then you should probably recce it beforehand.

As for 5K technique, when I've run my best sub-19 times, I tend to just go off hard and try to hold it for the duration. (I rarely finish with much gas left in the tank). If you're aiming for sub-18 then possibly try and aim for even splits (around 3:36 per km) and then the last 800m kick should hopefully see you come comfortably under the target.

― groovypanda, Monday, August 2, 2021 3:59 AM (two days ago)

Also first place is first place so well done. I've finished first in my local parkrun twice and proudly have the two slowest first place finishes as on both occasions the usual faster club runners had races in the afternoon.

― groovypanda, Monday, August 2, 2021 4:05 AM (two days ago)

yeah, it was definitely a dick move on his part. it's reasonable enough to bring your concerns to the race director (preferably without badmouthing your competitors) if the route markings are missing/misleading, but in this case there were signs at every intersection and literally hundreds of little arrows stuck to the pavement along the race course, so I'm not sure how two people managed to fuck up so badly. I try to run/walk a course ahead of time to get a feel for it, or at the very least scout it out on google maps streetview so it isn't a total surprise

even (or slightly negative) splits does seem like the most sensible approach. I guess my best bet is to make more of an effort to run my time trials and tempo runs at a steady pace so that it will come naturally to me by the time I start racing again. wish I wasn't such a slave to my watch because I find myself glancing down at it constantly during my workouts if I don't want to veer wildly off of my target pace. I guess running by feel is a skill that develops over time

congrats on your two wins! racing while all the 16-minute guys are asleep is a solid strategy in its own right. I just wish parkrun was a thing in the US, because it seems like the perfect opportunity to enjoy yourself and maybe try out some new approaches without the pressure and pricetag of a more formal race. most of the 5Ks in my area cost $25 to $35 to enter, so it isn't really worth it to race more than a handful of times per season, and I feel like I'm less likely to take risks because if I crash and burn I've just wasted a decent chunk of money with nothing to show for my efforts but a cheap "complimentary" tech shirt and a free beer

has anyone been running any races during the COVID era? I'm new to road racing but ended up completing four 5Ks between May and July. I feel like my strategy is still fairly weak/undeveloped at this point, though: I have a tendency to take off at an overly aggressive pace for the first couple of minutes to keep up with the pack, slow down to an overly conservative pace for the better part of the race, and let loose for the last 800m or so, pretty much always ending with the sense that I've left too much gas in the tank. I also tend to agonize far too long over when to pass people. my goal is always to run more or less even splits (with allowances for hills) with maybe a slight kick at the end, but I never quite manage to execute that properly. even so, my times have been improving with each successive race, and I managed to finish first overall in two races, so I guess I'm not underperforming too badly in spite of my self-criticism

in terms of training, I've been running 30 mpw pretty consistently since the beginning of the year, typically doing one 8-to-10-mile long run and one 3-mile tempo run per week. I tried to throw in a weekly interval session (400/600/800m) and up my mileage to 35 mpw during racing season, but I wasn't very consistent with either of those aims — it's kinda hard to taper for a race on such a strict schedule. since my last race I've kept the tempo run but stopping doing intervals, maintaining 35 mpw and doing a few strides during one of my easy runs so I don't lose too much of my raw speed. when the weather cools down a bit, I'm planning to resume the speedwork (and maybe increase my mileage further?) in preparation for the fall racing season. part of the challenge is motivating myself to do workouts I hate/dread (mile repeats, hills, longer tempo runs) when I'm running solo without a coach or a club to keep me on track. my goal is to run an official sub-18-minute 5K before the end of the year, something I've achieved during a solo time trial but never during an actual race

― in walked airbud (unregistered), Friday, July 30, 2021 8:17 AM (five days ago)

Your training strategy is very similar to mine. I'd love to do more speedwork and tempo stuff, but with work/kids I often only have the time or headspace to pop an easy 3 miles at lunch. But I do enjoy my 8-to-10 milers on Saturday or Sunday. I haven't done any races since Feb 2020, though the Parkrun near where I live (in Poland) recently started up again, so I might just do a 5k to see where I am.

I'm nearing 40 and *think* I can get down to the mid 18:00s for a 5k with the proper training base. My best in HS was just under 17:00, and I could pop out low 17:00s consistently. A few years ago I had a goal to try and better my hs PB, but I'm not sure I can find the time and motivation now, sadly.

My one piece of advice for anyone trying to get into running: do not venture into the Letsrun.com forums. Every few years I innocently bring up a thread on Google about a running topic and remember what a cesspool that place is.

I just wish parkrun was a thing in the US, because it seems like the perfect opportunity to enjoy yourself and maybe try out some new approaches without the pressure and pricetag of a more formal race.

Yeah, parkrun is fantastic for that. Hopefully starting back up here in Wales in the next few weeks but going to pop over the border to England this weekend to do my first one in a year and a half.

My pace is down at the moment but fairly sure it'll pick back up once I start doing parkruns again every Saturday. The social side of them is brilliant and as you say, there's no real pressure - it's good to take some easier and just enjoy the run or pace a friend to a PB but also good to race them as they're much better conditioning for race environments than running solo 5Ks in training.

xp Those Let'srun.com forums are the worst! Not sure why serious runners also happen to be the biggest trolls, but here we are.

impromptu trail race at a ski resort tonight, 4.3 miles. i don't like races at all, find them stressful, don't like running around a bunch of people, but these local races at ski resorts can be useful in that they have a nice route for them and i can run it on weekends. half the battle of trail running sometimes is getting familiar with a trail system. and then dealing with mountain bikers.

4.3 miles with 1200' elevation gain, that's right about my limit. i will be going slow on this one. goal is to find a nice gap between runners at an easy pace so i can enjoy the thing.

well shit, how did it go?

xp lol, i did it, it was really hard though and i finished middle of the bottom third iirc.

i have a running story to tell.

we get to the place where you can get on the slickrock from the sand. i am not sure what's going to happen because the whole slab of rock rises at a very steep angle for a mile or so and 1,000 feet i think. luckily i can take the tiniest steps imaginable and keep a pace. i do a few zig zags to avoid bowls and such. pretty soon i'm following the rim of the canyon we started in, a few hundred feet up. at the trailhead was a van with a bumper sticker that said "666 base" and dust-writing on the rear window that said "church of base," which finally makes sense when i crest a point right as someone hurls themselves off the canyon rim in front of me. the deep, dark canyon next to me and the base jumper floods me with adrenaline and any soreness leaves me for a while. i cross a couple of rocky divets in between the fins at strategic points - you have to stop and make the best guess you can, then running downward is trickier. i crest another point and see about 8-9 big horn sheep on the face in front of me, they scamper off to the side as i take a picture. eventually i reach the top, at least of the first jutted layer. the end.

belated lol @ map's story. wild sheep are one of the perks you miss out on when you run almost all your races in bland suburban neighborhoods

I had a pretty good first 5K of the year this morning. my goal was to finish in under 18 minutes, but my first mile fell so far short of my target pace (thanks to a plodding half-mile-long uphill stretch) that I was ready to settle for 18:30 or so. but I sped up a lot after cresting the hill and managed to finish in 17:35. I was in front of the pack for most of the race, but a 14-year-old boy overtook me about half a mile before the end, and I had little confidence in my ability to out-kick him. but he ended up taking a wrong turn into the parking lot leading up to the finish line, and I finished about 10 seconds before him. according to my watch, my splits were 5:58.4 / 5:39.1 / 5:38.1 / 0:27.4

I had a bit of slump in my performance last fall after I took a shitty, stressful, physically demanding customer service job. between work and running, I was sleeping poorly and losing about a pound a week, and my race times kept falling short of my training PR. even the easy runs often sucked — a couple miles in I'd begin to feel drowsy and weak with occasional bouts of lightheadedness. I still have the same shitty job, but I've at least adjusted my diet and sleep schedule somewhat, and I haven't had too many bad runs lately

in terms of training, I started the year running about 35 mpw with one weekly 3.5 mile tempo run, increased my mileage to 40 mpw toward the end of January, and added a weekly interval workout a couple weeks ago. I'm kindasorta following Jack Daniels's 40-50 mpw 5K plan but I can't really see myself sticking to it. I'm not too thrilled with his focus on mile-pace 200-400m reps and his inclusion of a marathon-pace long run every two or three weeks. I'll probably end up doing what I did last year and cycling between 400m/600m/800m/1000m intervals at a slightly slower pace, maybe throwing in a few hill workouts later in the spring. still not really sure what my end goal is, but I'd like to get my 5K time well below 17:30 before the summertime, and I'd like to try a 10K at some point

Wow, that's fantastic. Well done. I can only dream of a sub 18 5K although am slowly getting closer - ran a 5 mile race in sub-30 (just) last week.

Have quite a few 5 and 10K races coming up in the next few months. 10Ks can be quite tough as you're running at not much slower than 5K pace but obviously for twice as long. Sounds like you'll be ok though from the mileage you're putting in each week.

so this barefootsprinter guy on instagram has convinced me i need to get into my toes and feet. i'm a muscular heavy guy so it makes sense that my feet and toes need to engage and articulate when i'm running. even when i run on my toes i notice i roll inward (especially on my right leg) and my toes and foot are like wincing away from doing the work they need to do. this is what has led to some tendonitis, i'm pretty sure. i'm also eyeing minimal shoes, it's time for new ones anyway.

anyway, it's finally summer which means i need to do runs in the morning instead of later in the day. so my whole routine is switching up. this morning was a run to the gym (1 mile), then 30 mins of yoga, then a run back. running back after waking up my legs and feet like that was wild. i noticed i had a lot more awareness of how i was striking and the direction i need to head in with my toes and feet. i should probably do some mobility work on my lower body but it's hard to know what i really need.

Has anyone experienced problems with control over their ankles and feet and gait in general? I think I may have a permanent injury that cannot be detected by x-rays but that makes my running gait weird and makes it difficult for me to maintain my balance and control the motion of one leg such that a bulldog that happens to come charging can make me fall. But I don't feel any pain so I have a hard time explaining it. I detect it especially when I am tired. If I am not, I can maintain what I think my gait and motion should be.

the best thing would have been if she liked to run around the reservoir named for her and wore sunglasses at daybreak

If you have an injury, you have an injury and should find someone with the expertise to diagnose it.

If no injury, my PT and others I've read online would prob say you need to build up you single-leg strength over a few weeks and see if you notice any change. In general, it should really boost your stability and decrease the likelihood of using the wrong part of your joints, which leads to injury. I've done so over the past 6 months and recurring knee problems have almost completely disappeared.

There are a million single-leg workouts available online.

I started jogging (walk/jogging, to be accurate) again back in April. I've always been very stop-start about running because I kept running into injuries that would sideline me for a season. In particular, I used to have huge problems with shin splints and then later, piriformis syndrome (which just FUCK THAT). Anyway, I've eliminated those problems by finding stretches that work for me, and thus far, I've been running for two months injury free! Typically, I just do 1 mile/day, but have incorporated a few 2 miles on a few weekends. Now I'm pushing my daily jog to more of the 1.25 1.5 mile range and I find that I'm able to run for longer with fewer and shorter walk breaks.

For reference, it's been at least 3-4 years since I've attempted any running at all. This is the first time I've ever done it where I've felt like I was making improvements over time.

Glad you aren't getting injured! Now that I'm older when I go back to running after a break I ramp up as slowly as possible... half-mile runs to start, only adding a quarter or half mile a week. Round it out with a couple miles of walking.

A month post-COVID my lungs still hurt so I'm waiting another month or two before trying to resume running. Also need lose about ten pounds.

wtg peace man, that's encouraging.

oh no, i have become a vibram 5 fingers guy, radicalized into natural footism by this instagram account: https://www.instagram.com/thebarefootsprinter/. honestly though i have noticed my little toes are basically bent inward and completely immobile, did a lifetime of wearing too-narrow shoes do that? i am also doing foot strength and mobility exercises now - it makes sense to me that when my body gets heavier from weight training and my feet don't get any corresponding training, they start to do bad things when i run, which i believe leads to the tendonitis i've been experiencing. so i'm going to try mobility and strength for my feet.

i really like the 5 fingers (i got these https://us.vibram.com/shop/shop-all-products/mens-fivefingers/bestsellers/v-alpha-mens-M71.html). i do my first (short) run in them tomorrow, to the gym and back.

i did 2 miles on a wood chipped trail in the vibrams and 😬 it's intense! i like it though, i'm going to stick with it and hope i develop some thicker skin on my soles, because i absolutely feel more engagement across my feet and it's harder to slip into bad habits. 3 miles on the same trail this weekend.

Haha, well done.

There a lady in her 60s in my club who runs with them. She's got a road pair and a trail pair.

I looked at the trail pair and thought "Yeah, fuck that.". But she absolutely loves them.

I don't think running barefoot is necessary although I have seen it done. I am convinced that something is wrong with my right ankle but despair of ever finding it. The best thing about running is that it requires no attention and induces no anxiety. Things seem to come at you at a pace you can handle if you don't have people around and don't feel the need to pass them or aren't waiting for them to pass you. For a short while anything seems possible.

yeah i love that feeling. definitely why i shy away from competitions and prefer running in places where i will encounter few people.

i also feel inspired about 'things that are going on in my life' and have 'great ideas' when i'm running

finally made it back to the wood-chipped trail for 3 miles in the vibrams. my feet have actually toughened up a little bit but that mix of medium-small river-washed loose rock on the trail is just painful enough to keep my gait short, my time a few minutes slower, and my endurance on edge. not an issue on concrete / asphalt.

i think i'm going to take a step or two back from ultra minimal and get a pair of altras for trails.

good to hear everyone's doing well, and map do let us know about your altras cos i really need to get some new shoes and definitely want something with a minimal amount of drop (currently running in a pair i must've had for ten years or something - zero cushioning left in them but i don't really care about that, but they are starting to look v. beaten up and shabby). really struggling to get out and run though - doing a pretty physical job all day long and the hayfever tablets i'm taking are making me drowsy as hell, so i just feel completely zapped when i get home.

i've had altras before (lone peaks from 2018-2019 iirc) and didn't care for them much tbh - they had a stiff collar that dug into my achilles tendons and idk the fit was weird somehow and they were pretty ugly. also the outer toebox started busting open several months in, which is always an issue for me no matter the shoe, but it happened a lot earlier than usual. i see people wearing altras EVERYWHERE now though. the company started in utah iirc (now they're based somewhere else), so there's hometown pride involved i'm sure, but my friend (who is crazy and runs ultras and 100ks multiple times a year) claims that they are higher quality now after they switched production to a higher-rated factory in china, no idea when that happened.

i'm also really interested in vivobarefoot trail shoes but i can't tell if they would offer more protection than the vibrams against loose, sharp rock. it seems likely. i wish i could try them on. they're also kinda expensive.

I got some of the new altra lone peaks and I like them quite a bit, I am becoming a barefoot shoe guy as well, one step away from raw red meat diet guy

the lone peaks are zero drop not barefoot, they're quite cushioned and comfortable, but I got some xeros for walking/running but I'm still quite a ways off from running in them. Even in the altras I'm not running too much, only short trails

I'm thinking about getting one of those foot activation mats, I'm going insane

lol welcome

When I need new running shoes, I go to 6pm.com and sort by my size and price low to high, then choose the cheapest pair in a color that I like. Saucony often have nice cushiony and light pairs for $30-45.

Yeah, I usually buy last year's model of shoes as they're generally half price or less once the new ones come out (as long as you don't care about which colours you get)

Did splash out for Alphaflys, Vaporflys and Tempo Next% in the sales earlier this year though (all half price) and they're all pretty awesome for road racing. Have got PBs in all three and my 5K PB is now down to 18:08 and fairly confident I can dip under 18 if conditions are good

and thus far, I've been running for two months injury free!

Spoke too soon here. Lower back pain started last Saturday. This is a new one for me. Probably going to have to take a few weeks off from running and google up some physical therapy exercises.

I know this will make me sound like a petulant child, but I just need to vent here: it's so incredibly frustrating that I'm trying to do something to improve my quality of life and it has seemed to be working really well. And I've been taking the time to actively warm-up for 15 minutes beforehand and stretch afterward. But maybe something I was doing was wrong. Or maybe it's entirely unrelated and I just picked up something heavy wrong without thinking about it. And now it feels like I'm back to square fucking zero. I went for a walk this morning just to keep moving, but it's nowhere near as rewarding.

it's the absolute worst feeling.

picked up new altra lone peaks yesterday, went up the canyon and did a quick 4 mile thing today - much happier with some sole and cushion.

Super happy to finally crack 38 minutes for 10K this morning with a PB of 37:53

Was slightly hilly course and quite windy so reckon there's some more to shave off.

After scaling things back to just walking for over a month, getting my lower back in shape with core-strengthening physical therapy exercises, and being very, very, very patient, I began to incorporate small stretches of jogging back into my walking routine. 1/3 mile, every other day - taking things very slowly. I'm happy to say that the back problems seem to be a thing of the past.

But after about two weeks of these baby steps, now I have a small quad strain! Possibly came from trying to add body-weight squats into my pre-run routine? It's bothering me enough that I feel like I have to completely stop running again and just add more recovery things into my daily physical therapy routine.

This is fine. Good times. Just going to keep it going until I get there. Running was really, really nice back in April/May/June. For the first time in my life, I was hopping out of bed in the morning looking forward to running, instead of thinking of it as a chore that I had to do in order to lose weight. I'd like to be able to get back into it without fucking myself up again. Preferably before the winter weather sets in.

pretty much this. stopped about a year ago with left knee problems. realised a month ago that my left knee was no longer hurting. about 5 gentle jogs later it is again 8(

in a boot

Following the last update, my back pain came back, which led to an urgent care visit last weekend. Turns out that I have a disc condition that requires an orthopedist.

😱 xp

What have you done forks?

And hope you get yours sorted peace

Just talked to the orthopedist this morning! She basically said it's no big deal and everyone my age has some degeneration and arthritis. The other doc had made my situation sound a lot more worrisome than it is. I get to check in with an actual physical therapist (instead of just youtubing it, like I have been), but I should be okay in the long run. I'm still just sticking to walking for the time being, but I'm fitting it in twice a day.

xp - torn plantar, been walking on it for months! orthopedist said a boot is the only reasonable plan forward.e

I'm training for my first 5k. I've been back to running about a month and I'm consistently running/jogging at least 5k each run, albeit at a slow pace. I've started working in some intervals. My first goal is just to get my time under 30 mins, but I think that's very much within reach. Today I did a total of 4.5 miles, including three intervals of running a half mile at a consistently sub-10-min-mile pace. Plan to do intervals every two or three runs and gradually increase the distance on those intervals until they cover the full 5k.

I'm feeling pretty good in my runs so far. Wondering if something more ambitious, like a 25 min 5k, is in reach? It's in November fwiw.

Hope you're both soon on the mend xps

man alive - doesn't sound unrealistic. Would suggest introducing some long, slow runs into your routine once a week. Maybe start by aiming to continuously run for 60-75 minutes but at a much slower pace than you'd normally run at