outbreak! (ebola, sars, coronavirus, etc)

PBKR, I need you and Ron DeSantis to have a couple beers together.

And put rat poison in Ron's

Lol, I was about to say the exact same thing as Neanderthal before I saw his comment.

helpful!

:)

Nice

COVID vaccines are not perfect. But they are darn good, and keep you alive. Even with delta, alpha, gamma, kappa, lambda, etc.

I'm following Malta (90% vaccinated) and the UK. Look how deaths have stayed low. Couple more weeks to be sure. #GetVaccinated pic.twitter.com/xTZQkf8ylh

— Vincent Rajkumar (@VincentRK) July 30, 2021

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1C6rFWfYMg

My nonexistent sympathy level

https://apnews.com/article/health-coronavirus-pandemic-michael-brown-038c02dbc512e00b9e08aef98061b13d

Two quotes from different paragraphs of the apnews article:

“I was strongly against getting the vaccine,” Barker said through labored breathing. “Just because we’re a strong conservative family.”

Patients have said they worried about vaccine side effects, or felt the vaccines were rushed out took quickly.

I suspect the first quote represents the reality of vaccine denialism and the second quote reflects the rationalizations people give for what they subconsciously understand is irrational thinking.

A similar story.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/30/us/covid-vaccine-hesitancy-regret.html

And here: https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2021/07/28/phil-valentine-coronavirus-vaccine

Nashville radio talk show host Phil Valentine remains hospitalized in critical condition with COVID-19 more than two weeks after being admitted for the disease.

Valentine — who broadcasts on SuperTalk 99.7 WTN — was known for his COVID-19 vaccine skepticism.

... Now Phil Valentine wants people to know that he was wrong — and that he should have taken the vaccine. He wants others to reconsider their thoughts on vaccines.

The mood here in Knoxville has shifted dramatically in like just the past 4-5 days. Lots of medical offices have gone back to mandatory masks for everyone, regardless of vaxx status, and people are starting to cancel events again. Which sucks and is totally infuriating because if the unvaccinated half of the population would stop being idiots we'd be in way better shape.

if the unvaccinated half of the population would stop being idiots we'd be in way better shape

I have a nagging suspicion that we will be repeating this over and over throughout the remainder of 2021 (and into 2022???).

This is the end of the thread. I suggest reading the whole thing.

Hearing ends. When court staff arrive at Goodwyn’s home in coming days, if he’s not wearing mask, he’ll be arrested and jailed, per judge. And goodwyn indicated he won’t be wearing one. A Jan 6 defendant who is an anti-masker is facing prospect of jail pretrial

— Scott MacFarlane (@MacFarlaneNews) July 30, 2021

Here on Sanibel in deep red Lee County things have changed. The main office and marina ar our cottages put up mandatory mask signs on their doors. The general store too. I've seen more masked employees and customers around the island yesterday and today than Sunday and Monday.

(For context: Sanibel had mandatory mask ordinances until the CDC announcement in May).

nice

Walmart, the nation's biggest private employer, is requiring its headquarters and regional staff to be vaccinated by Oct. 4, in a move that might set the standard for corporate America to follow. https://t.co/r1WPETMmlr via @business

— Matthew Boyle (@bizboyle) July 30, 2021

oh hell yeah

The vaccines are working. Of the 900 cases related to the Provincetown cluster, there have been no deaths, 7 hospitalizations, and the symptoms are largely mild. Our positivity peaked at 15% on 7/15 and was only 4.8% yesterday. The outbreak is contained and Provincetown is safe.

— Alex Morse (@AlexBMorse) July 30, 2021

legit stunned at the Walmart news

but headquarters and regional staff, does 'regional staff' mean like....all employees or like, regional executives/managers?

Why not their workers? All of them?
Now that would be a major move especially in the South.

If Hooters followed the same policy, and there are more Hooters restaurants in the South than you would imagine, the TWO of them would have a major impact.

— Stuart O'Neill (@stuart_oneill) July 30, 2021

"Staff" is not a word usually dusted off for grocery checkers and warehouse workers.

yeah that was what prompted my question :/.

it's a step though I guess.

Sanibel: where Minnesota goes on vacation.

Why not their workers? All of them?

The other ones are easier to replace when they die iirc

i had a thought come up when i was reading this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/07/29/cdc-mask-guidance/

Walter A. Orenstein, associate director of the Emory Vaccine Center, said he was struck by data showing that vaccinated people who became infected with delta shed just as much virus as those who were not vaccinated. The slide references an outbreak in Barnstable County, Mass., where vaccinated and unvaccinated people shed nearly identical amounts of virus.

“I think this is very important in changing things,” Orenstein said.

A person working in partnership with the CDC on investigations of the delta variant, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak, said the data came from a July 4 outbreak in Provincetown, Mass. Genetic analysis of the outbreak showed that people who were vaccinated were transmitting the virus to other vaccinated people. The person said the data was “deeply disconcerting” and a “canary in the coal mine” for scientists who had seen the data.

If the war has changed, as the CDC states, so has the calculus of success and failure. The extreme contagiousness of delta makes herd immunity a more challenging target, infectious-disease experts said.

“I think the central issue is that vaccinated people are probably involved to a substantial extent in the transmission of delta,” Jeffrey Shaman, a Columbia University epidemiologist, wrote in an email after reviewing the CDC slides. “In some sense, vaccination is now about personal protection — protecting oneself against severe disease. Herd immunity is not relevant as we are seeing plenty of evidence of repeat and breakthrough infections.”

one thing to note is the bad optics around the type of messaging the US CDC has used (and even other western countries), and how that's pushing away skeptics, which for all intents and purposes, are becoming indistinguishable from anti-vaxxers and anti-science types, because there is no nuanced statistic that divides people into why they decided not to get jabbed.

in one of those massachusetts incidences, the vaccinated were shedding just as much as the unvaccinated, where you see an indistinguishable amount of viral load in both. if the vaccinated are carrying a dangerous amount of viral load in their nose and throat, this completely contradicts what the CDC was saying before. but now that the CDC is aware, sure, masks mandates are needed. the CDC's "simplified messaging" reminds me of workplaces with bad management. when the messaging is simplified to the point that it becomes uncertain and, in worse case, contradictory, you lose your skeptics' trust.

i think most of us can agree that vaccines are needed. but the way the US CDC has gone about this entire pandemic has been disastrous.

think most of us can agree that vaccines are needed

steady on there

Uh, is there a reason you want to call out that specific statement there sic?

I assume that's just an arch commentary on the fact that 'most people' is a bit of a stretch. A majority, anyway, thankfully, if not quite enough of a majority.

More an arch commentary on “most of us” here itt being an understatement!

But even a substantial element of the brain wormed / not getting vaxxed arguers say that it’s bcz everyone else is, so herd immunity

well, i don't follow this thread too closely. this site is my fun-reading time.

i'm so sorry

Xp I’ve seen reputable infectious disease people say that viral load does not necessarily tell you infectivity, will try to find and post a good source when not on my phone. For example I think kids have viral loads pretty close to adults but are considerably less infective.

Dr Angela Rasmussen said exactly that, think I posted in the other thread....one sec

Let's just skip the small talk and get right to the point. This figure shows the data. It shows Ct (cycle threshold) values for vaccinated vs unvaccinated people infected with delta. Yes, they are basically the same.

But are Ct values a good measurement of viral load...? pic.twitter.com/3hypqB1ZCc

— Dr. Angela Rasmussen (@angie_rasmussen) August 1, 2021

-?

=?

error

human error overload

"=?" is the best 80s Rush song

even Christgau likes it!

What does overload mean to me?

Talking Heads trying to sound like Joy Division without having heard them before

Love =? Buildings On Fire

that would be interesting, man alive. but just to be clear, do you mean infectivity of the host or shedding (infecting others)?

I mean the chance of infecting others. The Rasumussen thing suggests it may even go further than that, i.e. we may not even be using a good measure of viral load to begin with.

Just because there have been reports about the vaccinated being equally likely to spread COVID. The more obvious flaw with that statement is that the vaccinated are less likely to get COVID, but it sounds like we may also need more info on whether or not the vaccinated who do get infected are equally likely to transmit.

We are continuing to rely on the responsible to pick up the pieces for the irresponsible. We haven’t been able to count on the voluntarily unvaccinated to get vaccinated. We can’t rely on them to wear masks to limit the impact of their irresponsibility on others. We can’t even rely on them to be honest enough to abide by a masking policy only for the unvaccinated. So we’re left with arguably over-broad guidance and continued unclarity about why all of this is happening.

As I’ve been saying for some time, the problem with our policy is that we are not doing enough to place the burden of non-vaccination squarely on the voluntarily unvaccinated. That is both the most equitable and the most effective approach. Here though we can see that public authorities’ effort to work around the problem of the irresponsibility of the unvaccinated actually manages to bring them into a sort of public contempt. The science clearly has changed with the Delta variant. It’s much more transmissible. But the problem remains that Delta is spreading like wildfire among the unvaccinated and it’s lapping up onto the shores on vaccinated America.

So just as we’ve gotten the balance off by having the vaccinated shoulder the burden created by the unvaccinated, we now have public health authorities bringing their own authority into contempt because of too aggressive coddling of the unvaccinated. So now they’re picking up the burden for the unvaccinated too – not at the cost of daily inconveniences but at the cost of their public authority. We all suffer for that.

We need to be placing the burdens on non-vaccination on the unvaccinated. And we need to be clear with the public that the problem is the non-vaccinated. They’re at fault. They’re to blame. And even more, the public influencers, celebrities and political actors who’ve driven resistance to vaccination are to blame.

blame is pointless in this era. blame only has a point when there is accountability

I think we need a harm reduction approach with vaccination. There are really two different categories of people, maybe with some occasional overlap at the margins. There are the actual hardcore "antivaxxers" who think the 5G chip is going to be implanted or whatever. I don't think you can reach those people, no matter how much you browbeat them (in fact it probably just makes them dig in harder). But there are also the merely "hesitant" or even foot-dragging people, and there are more of those than you think. Some of them may just not be the highest functioning people. Some are a little nervous about the vaccine but not hardcore antivax. Some may fear shots but ultimately get what's good for them. Some may be overwhelmed by their lives and haven't found the time. There's good evidence that there are people in these latter categories who can still be reached with the right outreach. I saw a great twitter thread by someone who does this work, will try to find (maybe it was already posted ITT, hard to keep track).

Point being, give up on the real antivaxers, but recognize there are still plenty of people who can be reached who are not entrenched against the vaccine, and focus on reaching those people rather than shaming them.

Give up on the antivaxxers? I already did, a long time ago.

Ban them from public spaces

As has been suggested, life just needs to be made prohibitively inconvenient for the unvaccinated, where people with the authority to make it happen say: if you are unvaccinated, you can't go to your job, you can't use public transportation, you can't indulge in any kind of public entertainment, etc. The only distinction that needs to be made is with those who have a legitimate, health-related reason why they can not or should not be vaccinated. We can make accommodations for that small minority, particularly since they are far more likely to behave responsibly for the sake of their own health and the health of others. Any other unvaccinated adults in the US fall into the 'get vaxxed or get fucked' category imho.

OL on the money. The problem is that in most non urban centers, there is absolutely nothing stopping these anti-vaxxers from living a completely normal life yet. Talking my (fully vaxxed) dad who lives about an hour and a half west of the Chicago suburbs last week, he said no one is enforcing masks out where he lives, it's just life as normal. When people see absolutely zero consequences for being as irresponsible as possible, of course there's little reason for them to change a fucking thing.

On the other infuriating tip, is the hordes of super angry seeming redditors that are rabidly furious about being asked to mask up again. Just shocked by the level of "fuck you, I'm vaccinated, I'm not doing a fucking thing I don't want to do" vitriol over there. Of course I wish we weren't moving backwards in some regards but, we are, sorry buds.