outbreak! (ebola, sars, coronavirus, etc)

it's hard to read this thread now

it's all so absurd

does the federal government have a policy yet?

answering my own question: not a blanket policy (not yet?)

VA issues employee vaccine mandate for healthcare workers, first for a federal agency, NYT reports https://t.co/dbVVqOP9m4

— Meg Tirrell (@megtirrell) July 26, 2021

In the 15 minutes since my post above they've sent an email updating their vaccination policy (citing Delta). Vaccinations will be mandatory "once a vaccine fully approved by the FDA becomes available."

I have been skeptical that people actually care about the distinction between EUA and "approval" but maybe I was just wrong about this

i don't think anyone who is unvaccinated by choice cares about FDA approval in good faith, but people have made legal arguments related to it in court (where they have failed afaict). full FDA approval would at least cut those arguments off at the knees and avoid wasted time in court.

it's mostly concern trolling

but yes, FDA needs to just fuckin' do it. it would help

Agreed. A new wrinkle my wife saw on a Trumper relatives' FB feed essentially boiled down to: "it hasn't been fully approved because the FDA knows it's dangerous but hasn't figured out how to tell all the sheeple that they fucked up".

btw Sturgis 2021 kicks off in two weeks!

Yup. My uncle and aunt (both unvaccinated) are heading up again this year. They managed to not catch anything last year (or, if they did, managed to get by without letting on to anyone), so I'm sure they are even less concerned this time.

Just so everyone is clear, employers and governments absolutely have the power to mandate vaccines. It's not some close legal issue and the EUA and FDA final approval does not change that.

This is just a matter of small "p" political will to be willing to take the blowback from those who would be angered by a mandate.

As caek alluded to, those truly opposed to vaccination will just move the goal posts once the final FDA approval is granted.

because I'm willin' to be willin'

PBKR, I need you and Ron DeSantis to have a couple beers together.

And put rat poison in Ron's

Lol, I was about to say the exact same thing as Neanderthal before I saw his comment.

helpful!

:)

Nice

COVID vaccines are not perfect. But they are darn good, and keep you alive. Even with delta, alpha, gamma, kappa, lambda, etc.

I'm following Malta (90% vaccinated) and the UK. Look how deaths have stayed low. Couple more weeks to be sure. #GetVaccinated pic.twitter.com/xTZQkf8ylh

— Vincent Rajkumar (@VincentRK) July 30, 2021

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1C6rFWfYMg

My nonexistent sympathy level

https://apnews.com/article/health-coronavirus-pandemic-michael-brown-038c02dbc512e00b9e08aef98061b13d

Two quotes from different paragraphs of the apnews article:

“I was strongly against getting the vaccine,” Barker said through labored breathing. “Just because we’re a strong conservative family.”

Patients have said they worried about vaccine side effects, or felt the vaccines were rushed out took quickly.

I suspect the first quote represents the reality of vaccine denialism and the second quote reflects the rationalizations people give for what they subconsciously understand is irrational thinking.

A similar story.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/30/us/covid-vaccine-hesitancy-regret.html

And here: https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2021/07/28/phil-valentine-coronavirus-vaccine

Nashville radio talk show host Phil Valentine remains hospitalized in critical condition with COVID-19 more than two weeks after being admitted for the disease.

Valentine — who broadcasts on SuperTalk 99.7 WTN — was known for his COVID-19 vaccine skepticism.

... Now Phil Valentine wants people to know that he was wrong — and that he should have taken the vaccine. He wants others to reconsider their thoughts on vaccines.

The mood here in Knoxville has shifted dramatically in like just the past 4-5 days. Lots of medical offices have gone back to mandatory masks for everyone, regardless of vaxx status, and people are starting to cancel events again. Which sucks and is totally infuriating because if the unvaccinated half of the population would stop being idiots we'd be in way better shape.

if the unvaccinated half of the population would stop being idiots we'd be in way better shape

I have a nagging suspicion that we will be repeating this over and over throughout the remainder of 2021 (and into 2022???).

This is the end of the thread. I suggest reading the whole thing.

Hearing ends. When court staff arrive at Goodwyn’s home in coming days, if he’s not wearing mask, he’ll be arrested and jailed, per judge. And goodwyn indicated he won’t be wearing one. A Jan 6 defendant who is an anti-masker is facing prospect of jail pretrial

— Scott MacFarlane (@MacFarlaneNews) July 30, 2021

Here on Sanibel in deep red Lee County things have changed. The main office and marina ar our cottages put up mandatory mask signs on their doors. The general store too. I've seen more masked employees and customers around the island yesterday and today than Sunday and Monday.

(For context: Sanibel had mandatory mask ordinances until the CDC announcement in May).

nice

Walmart, the nation's biggest private employer, is requiring its headquarters and regional staff to be vaccinated by Oct. 4, in a move that might set the standard for corporate America to follow. https://t.co/r1WPETMmlr via @business

— Matthew Boyle (@bizboyle) July 30, 2021

oh hell yeah

The vaccines are working. Of the 900 cases related to the Provincetown cluster, there have been no deaths, 7 hospitalizations, and the symptoms are largely mild. Our positivity peaked at 15% on 7/15 and was only 4.8% yesterday. The outbreak is contained and Provincetown is safe.

— Alex Morse (@AlexBMorse) July 30, 2021

legit stunned at the Walmart news

but headquarters and regional staff, does 'regional staff' mean like....all employees or like, regional executives/managers?

Why not their workers? All of them?
Now that would be a major move especially in the South.

If Hooters followed the same policy, and there are more Hooters restaurants in the South than you would imagine, the TWO of them would have a major impact.

— Stuart O'Neill (@stuart_oneill) July 30, 2021

"Staff" is not a word usually dusted off for grocery checkers and warehouse workers.

yeah that was what prompted my question :/.

it's a step though I guess.

Sanibel: where Minnesota goes on vacation.

Why not their workers? All of them?

The other ones are easier to replace when they die iirc

i had a thought come up when i was reading this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/07/29/cdc-mask-guidance/

Walter A. Orenstein, associate director of the Emory Vaccine Center, said he was struck by data showing that vaccinated people who became infected with delta shed just as much virus as those who were not vaccinated. The slide references an outbreak in Barnstable County, Mass., where vaccinated and unvaccinated people shed nearly identical amounts of virus.

“I think this is very important in changing things,” Orenstein said.

A person working in partnership with the CDC on investigations of the delta variant, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak, said the data came from a July 4 outbreak in Provincetown, Mass. Genetic analysis of the outbreak showed that people who were vaccinated were transmitting the virus to other vaccinated people. The person said the data was “deeply disconcerting” and a “canary in the coal mine” for scientists who had seen the data.

If the war has changed, as the CDC states, so has the calculus of success and failure. The extreme contagiousness of delta makes herd immunity a more challenging target, infectious-disease experts said.

“I think the central issue is that vaccinated people are probably involved to a substantial extent in the transmission of delta,” Jeffrey Shaman, a Columbia University epidemiologist, wrote in an email after reviewing the CDC slides. “In some sense, vaccination is now about personal protection — protecting oneself against severe disease. Herd immunity is not relevant as we are seeing plenty of evidence of repeat and breakthrough infections.”

one thing to note is the bad optics around the type of messaging the US CDC has used (and even other western countries), and how that's pushing away skeptics, which for all intents and purposes, are becoming indistinguishable from anti-vaxxers and anti-science types, because there is no nuanced statistic that divides people into why they decided not to get jabbed.

in one of those massachusetts incidences, the vaccinated were shedding just as much as the unvaccinated, where you see an indistinguishable amount of viral load in both. if the vaccinated are carrying a dangerous amount of viral load in their nose and throat, this completely contradicts what the CDC was saying before. but now that the CDC is aware, sure, masks mandates are needed. the CDC's "simplified messaging" reminds me of workplaces with bad management. when the messaging is simplified to the point that it becomes uncertain and, in worse case, contradictory, you lose your skeptics' trust.

i think most of us can agree that vaccines are needed. but the way the US CDC has gone about this entire pandemic has been disastrous.

think most of us can agree that vaccines are needed

steady on there

Uh, is there a reason you want to call out that specific statement there sic?

I assume that's just an arch commentary on the fact that 'most people' is a bit of a stretch. A majority, anyway, thankfully, if not quite enough of a majority.

More an arch commentary on “most of us” here itt being an understatement!

But even a substantial element of the brain wormed / not getting vaxxed arguers say that it’s bcz everyone else is, so herd immunity

well, i don't follow this thread too closely. this site is my fun-reading time.

i'm so sorry

Xp I’ve seen reputable infectious disease people say that viral load does not necessarily tell you infectivity, will try to find and post a good source when not on my phone. For example I think kids have viral loads pretty close to adults but are considerably less infective.

Dr Angela Rasmussen said exactly that, think I posted in the other thread....one sec

Let's just skip the small talk and get right to the point. This figure shows the data. It shows Ct (cycle threshold) values for vaccinated vs unvaccinated people infected with delta. Yes, they are basically the same.

But are Ct values a good measurement of viral load...? pic.twitter.com/3hypqB1ZCc

— Dr. Angela Rasmussen (@angie_rasmussen) August 1, 2021

-?

=?

error

human error overload

"=?" is the best 80s Rush song