Israel to World: "Suck It."

Kindof showing yr ass here Israel

The land of milk & honey but no Cherry Garcia

I guess when your most ludicrous lines get taken seriously in perpetuity you ultimately end up claiming that refusing to sell an ice cream brand in internationally recognised stolen land is terrorism but that bombing schools is fine

Mayor de Blasio says he'll boycott Ben & Jerry's over Israel stance https://t.co/aS06Z0RBm1 pic.twitter.com/Ez9TULIU5y

— Eyewitness News (@ABC7NY) July 21, 2021

i thought it was bad to boycott companies over their israel stance

de blasio will personally have to pry a carton of phish food from my cold dead hands fyi

lol harbl yyyyep

Isn't this the dumbest possible move from B&J? All the negatives of BDS but also none of whatever positive support would come with it.

what do you mean? ben and jerry's should stop selling in Canada?

― symsymsym, Wednesday, July 21, 2021 1:50 PM (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

If the occupation of territories and mistreatment of people living prior to the state is the standard, then yeah, Canada would have to be boycotted too. Heck, it's even worse since white Canadians have zero historical connection to the land.

Anyway, I'd take any form of activism by a company owned by Unilever with a large grain salt. Especially when same company seems to have no problem with selling products to Saudi Arabia.

yes well done

If the occupation of territories and mistreatment of people living prior to the state is the standard, then yeah, Canada would have to be boycotted too. Heck, it's even worse since white Canadians have zero historical connection to the land.

― Van Horn Street, Wednesday, 21 July 2021 bookmarkflaglink

Lol.

Ben & Jerry's are now the best ice cream (and I like all ice cream)

b&j’s brand is nice capitalism not revolution, idk whether this will help or hurt that reputation but the fact that this is a thing at all is indicative of a deeper shift that I want to know more about. fuck praising a unilever subsidiary for doing way less than the bare minimum but the boiled piss is still amusing so far

it does bother me a lot that way too many israel critics seem to have little to no problem with other settler colonies except to the extent that they support israel (and even then they don’t make the obvious connection). I know this is often brought up in bad faith so people switch off but when these critics are either based in these colonies or in coloniser countries it feels like a total abdication of responsibility. I keep coming back to some poll that showed UK leftists generally disapproving of israel while generally approving of britain and - why? the (justified) passion on this subject & borderline (at best) wilful ignorance about its foundation are an odd fit but I see it all the time. absolutely boycott in fact abolish canada, USA, australia etc & all the metropoles but that’s not a stance that would sell much ice cream, not yet at least

the subject being “the israeli-palestinian conflict” and the foundation being that of the contemporary state of israel as well as those of its models

I'm boycotting my local ice cream van, hopefully that will go some way towards abolishing Britain.

I'm afraid that's terrorism

absolutely boycott in fact abolish canada, USA, australia etc & all the metropoles but that’s not a stance that would sell much ice cream, not yet at least

Should we abolish or boycott Palestine as well? Because as far as I can tell, Islam and the arab language came from military conquests, the dhimmi status, expulsion of religious minorities, building religious buildings on top of another people’s religious buildings (and at times, restricting access to say religious site!) are pretty solid artefacts of colonialism, so is not allowing self-determination of a people for more than a thousand years after the conquest.

I guess the fact that other people in human history have also done bad things is a pretty good excuse for 54 years (and counting) of military occupation

Abolish Palestine is just the sort of thought experiment The Guardian could publish, for the sake of debate, while the world burns.

Terrorism, noun: the use of…. withholding ice cream in the pursuit of political aims

— rachel shabi (@rachshabi) July 21, 2021

xp we’ve been through this already palestinians are not generic “arabs” who replaced an indigenous population, the islamic conquests did not operate like european settler genocide in the americas/elsewhere (which obviously means I’m saying they were great). but sure abolish all states, singling out palestine in that context seems kind of racist

i know “but islam” does so much work so easily in so much of the world that it has basically become a reflex but come on

co-worker: Ben & Jerry's in the West Bank
ISRAELor: Yeah, I'd like to suck on some of that!
co-worker: o_O

<ISRAELor goes to West Bank, sees it's Ben and Jerry not Ben & Jerry's ice cream>

ISRAELor: Noooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!

but if people had boycotted corporations doing business in the arab empire 1000 years ago, palestine wouldn't be doing the conquering it is today.

makes u think

I guess the fact that other people in human history have also done bad things is a pretty good excuse for 54 years (and counting) of military occupation

― symsymsym, Thursday, July 22, 2021 12:55 AM (twelve hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Every people has a right to self determination, so nothing justifies oppressing a people who has a desire for it. Turns out that also include the jewish people having a right to live in their ancestral homeland, that includes Palestinians having a right to live in their ancestral homeland, so far I am not seeing a lot of openness to cohabitation or desire to let go of ethno-state ideals from both parties. On one side part of that is the depiction of Israelis as whites europeans wanting to chill in a new land like Australians and Americans do on new continents, plus a long standing notion that jews are second class humans unworthy of nationhood, both of which holds no historical or moral scrutiny and is absolutely a reason why the conflict is on-going.

The right of any people to self-determination is of course a high ideal but the fact that your post is so full of ridiculous conflations (self determination and colonialism, palestinian liberation and israeli nationalism) and evasions or ommissions (the actual, seemingly endlessly ongoing, brutal occupation of gaza and the west bank , the ridiculous 'denying settlers this brand of ice cream is terrorism' allegation that is currently under discussion) suggests that you are either too disingenuous or too stupid to be worth arguing with.

In which way do I omit the brutal occupation of Gaza and the West Bank? Didn't I just say that Palestinians have a right to self-determination? Am I arguing for the continuation of ethno state paradigms? Did I say I agree that B&J boycotting the OT is terrorism? I suppose when Jews have the very human desire to live in their homeland from which they were expelled and treated as second class by colonial forces, it's automatically colonialism (suggesting otherwise seems to be conflation), but when Palestinians have the very human desire to live in their homeland free from the control of the apartheid state, it's liberation.

the genocide of the palestinians is the israeli national project.

the great majority of peoples in the world do not live where they lived 2000 years ago and we would never accept any national people today moving on mass to their "ancestral home" expelling the people who have been living there for centuries.

except israel was formed in the 40s and the europeans felt guilty and the people living there were just arabs

xp It really isn't, any more than declining to sell ice cream in the occupied territories is "terrorism"

if a palestinian marries an israeli they are barred by law from getting israeli citizenship

israel is a jewish state, half the population under its control is not jewish

there's been a clear and deliberate plan by every israeli government for decades to promote the building of settlements that bit by bit destroy any meaningful contiguous palestinian area in the west bank, destroying any possibility of a palestinian state

the great majority of peoples in the world do not live where they lived 2000 years ago and we would never accept any national people today moving on mass to their "ancestral home" expelling the people who have been living there for centuries.

― 《Myst1kOblivi0n》 (jim in vancouver), Thursday, July 22, 2021 3:15 PM (fourteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I guess the FNIM will just have to cope I guess!

comparison makes no sense.

the Former Nation In Macedonia?

first nations, inuit, and métis

ive also never heard any first nations activist make common cause with the israelis, quite the opposite

I see, back to Canada - thanx

no ice cream = terrorism sounds like something my 9 year old would say.

comparison makes no sense.

― 《Myst1kOblivi0n》 (jim in vancouver), Thursday, July 22, 2021 3:34 PM (sixteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

You are literally asking Jews to just make peace with the Diaspora despite all the atrocities that derived from it, and acting as if the effect of that Diaspora is inconsequential to the present day. Doing the same for any sort of displaced people would be considered morally unacceptable, it would be so for the FNIM, just like it is for the descendants of the Nakba. I just believe that the incapacity to imagine many different people living peacefully in the same land is incredibly sad, and that allowing one people in a land over another is reprehensible. I don't think it's out of bounds to remind ourselves than Palestinians in power, today and for the many centuries prior, are guilty of the same 'us vs them' mentality.

In which way do I omit the brutal occupation of Gaza and the West Bank? Didn't I just say that Palestinians have a right to self-determination? Am I arguing for the continuation of ethno state paradigms? Did I say I agree that B&J boycotting the OT is terrorism? I suppose when Jews have the very human desire to live in their homeland from which they were expelled and treated as second class by colonial forces, it's automatically colonialism (suggesting otherwise seems to be conflation), but when Palestinians have the very human desire to live in their homeland free from the control of the apartheid state, it's liberation.

― Van Horn Street, Thursday, 22 July 2021 19:11 (forty-five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Liberation and colonialism derive their meaning from the present existing powers of domination. In this instance there is a population of millions who for generations have been denied basic human rights. I'm not really sure this can be understood as 'automatically' because it has entailed decades of militarised occupation which tends to involve much more agency on the part of the colonial powers than the word 'automatically' would imply. If you want people to take you seriously be serious.

xp In this thread especially, VHS, you have one of the worst argumentation styles on the site. Just a gish gallop of "what about..." and inane comparisons.

Seriously: "what if the subaltern party had power, and used it poorly" is not the good argument you think it is? Especially when it seems clearly intended to place the Palestinian and Jewish Israeli experiences on equal terms, when it's just so, so clearly not.

The problem is that you seem to think that I'm okay with Israel occupation and apartheid policies, which I am not. I just happen to think that Jews have the right to build a state for themselves in their ancestral land, and that the building of that state ought not to exclude the rights of self-determination of Palestinians like it is at the moment. My only problem is when it is argued that Jews don't have a right to the land the same way Palestinians does, that there is an ascendency of one people over the other. I reject that and lot of arguments are made explicitly to deny one's people self-determination, which I do believe to be a sacred human right.

Right, but you seem to conflate "express any support of Palestinians" with "completely agree with Hamas"; if not, I think you're just not in conversation with what people in this thread are actually saying/concerned about.

I am not conflating those two. I don't think anyone support Hamas here, but the notion that Australians, Canadians and Americans in Oceania and North Americas is exactly the same paradigm as Israelis is to me, absolutely false. And not only does it play to anti-semitic tropes of never belonging and erase jewish culture and history, it also erases many century of colonialism by several different entities in the region, forms of colonialism that wouldn't be accepted today by these same people.

You brought up the comparison? In order to, basically, say that B&J are hypocritical to sell in Canada, since Canada is worse, in your view? (Also a Canadian here, also horrified at the general attitude toward indigenous people here, especially on a government level.)

Or are you just arguing with left's few posts, and doing it in a manner that seems pretty out of left field?

I was arguing with left yes. Those are two separate arguments. One is about the hypocrisy of the Unilever subsidiary and the other is about the Jewish connection to Israel.

No you brought it up first

Left vs. VHS. Clash of the Titans.