Every huge artist has their "New Jersey" - a huge event album that ultimately feels a bit hollow & signals a career decline

Surely Music was Madonna's New Jersey, despite Confessions on a Dance Floor?

Music even made Rolling Stone's top 500 of all time list in 2003, which was bizarre then and unthinkable now.

From a UK perspective Music is her comeback after a relatively quiet mid-90s

“Reputation” was still a hit yes, but so was “Keep The Faith”, but in both cases the cultural moment was kinda already over?

And “Hard Candy” since it still had hits (“4 Minutes”), but the “hollow feeling that the gig was up” is definitively there and the dropoff was at that point irreversible. “Music” doesn’t feel like that at all to me?

Do you think Taylor’s “cultural moment” has passed in any way analogous to Bon Jovi’s, 6.5 years after New Jersey? If so, you are mistaken.

morrisp otm

From A US perspective, I'd argue that most of these albums are far from being surefire NJs. Prism is maybe the closest, but its certification of 2x platinum in the US is nowhere near the 8x that Teenage Dream did, so, disqualified?

1989 - I'd echo what others have said.

Views - Drake has had loads of number ones since then (including 4 of them in 2018, two years after Views' release). Also, his follow-up to Views is certified 5x platinum in the states vs 6x for Views. Seems fairly relevant to me.

Hard Candy - Both this and Confessions each only had one hit in the US. Confessions did nice business compared to American Life, but (in the US at least) ain't a Slippery When Wet blockbuster. Even if it was, Hard Candy did appreciably worse than Confessions, so, this doesn't feel very NJ to me.

I feel like Life of Pablo and Lemonade could be interesting discussions re: where these artists are at in their careers, but I'm not sure anybody would suggest that either are in a struggle for relevancy (pop hits, maybe... relevancy, no).

Perhaps NJ is a particular failure of blow jovi

Oh no, there are plenty of NJs. These just ain’t them!

Taylor is obviously still relevant to her old fans, but at this point she’s become near invisible if you’re either younger or older, the days where “Shake It Off” was in a movie like Sing and other mass media and you couldn’t escape her music in stores, radio, albums are an “event” etc are long gone.

For what it’s worth, Google Trends

…shows a dropoff just after all those albums.

I mean, do you see Red as her Slippery When Wet?

All that Hard Candy had over Confessions was Madonna's biggest single since "Don't Tell Me." Her last too.

at this point she’s become near invisible if you’re either younger or older

If you say so. Anecdotally: (a) this year's hottest new pop star is an 18-year-old mega-Swiftie, and (b) my Boomer uncle got into her via Folklore and is now a fan.

you couldn’t escape her music in stores, radio, albums are an “event” etc are long gone

Here's where we play the Covid card, because the scenario you describe was still in effect for Lover, and probably would have stretched in 2020 when she toured behind it. Since she was the able to do that, she's done two sneak attack niche albums that don't lend themselves to such marketing (and despite that both went to #1) and is currently focusing on the rerecords, which are more for the hardcore Swifties (who've taken the first and will presumably deliver the second to #1).

And also the 1989 songs are still pretty ubiquitous.

'was the'='wasn't'

That just sounds like Spinal Tap "they are still huge but their appeal has become more selective".

But looking at this, I guess that New Jerseys can't exist anymore due to the emergence of filter bubbles, where artists whose popularity in the larger scheme of things has declined strongly, still feel ubiquitous and huge when you're a fan because Youtube, Spotify, Facebook etc keep feeding you their new output as if their heydays never ended, where in the past the monolithic mainstream radio/tv just dropped them off the radar. I mean, if their existing listeners had never been exposed to grunge and thrash metal in 1991, would the hair metal era of Bon Jovi, Poison and Guns 'n Roses have lasted another undisturbed ten years as 'culturally relevant' music for their millions of fans?

I actually am sceptical of the concept as a whole but insofar as it works, my reservation was just with picking TS's biggest album, with probably the most famous hits, as her NJ. Maybe Reputation could work? Idk I never heard all of it.

reputation is certainly the closest taylor has - its hits were more about the momentum from the huge previous album and brought with it the feeling that the gig was up. lover wasn't quite the bottom falling out but still a further decline

xxp If you think this qualifies as Spinal Tap–esque “selective appeal” I don’t know what to tell you:

Upon release, Folklore broke the Guinness World Record for the biggest opening day on Spotify for an album by a female act. Three of its tracks reached the top 10 of the official charts in eight countries, namely "Cardigan", "The 1" and "Exile", the first of which is the album's lead single and marked Swift's sixth number-one song on the US Billboard Hot 100. The album reached number one in Australia, Canada, Ireland, New Zealand, Switzerland, the United Kingdom, and various others. It was Swift's seventh consecutive number-one album on the US Billboard 200, where it topped for eight weeks and became the best-selling album of 2020.

Folklore was met with widespread critical acclaim (…). Critics found its introspective themes timely for the pandemic and regarded it a bold reinvention of Swift's artistry. The album prominently featured on publications' year-end lists of the best albums of 2020, ranking first on many (…). It won Album of the Year at the 63rd Grammy Awards, making Swift the first female artist in history to win the honor three times.

but at this point she’s become near invisible if you’re either younger or older,

This doesn't check out. Speaking as a parent of a young kid I can tell you that Swift songs are inescapable at any party, fair, school event, indoor recreation space, etc.

Swift has to date no New Jerseys.

"I don't listen to her, she must not be popular."

just an old cardigan

...is all she has

xp

Every Drake album feels like a New Jersey.

wishful thinking

"I don't listen to her, she must not be popular."

I plugged in Drake, Beyonce, and Kanye West for comparison; they all exhibit similar declines (though I don't know who you consider a "culturally relevant" long-term artist, feel free to chose your own). So maybe this is just a Google Trends thing.

(you did list Lemonade as a NJ, so maybe you also consider Beyoncé to be a Spinal Tap case.)

Taylor's Youtube trend over the past year doesn't match Olivia Rodrigo's or Arianna Grande's, but they're about the same as Dua Lipa's

who is Googling these artist names in 2021, anyway

i think the thing is if she didn't pivot with folklore it's likely that reputation would have been her new jersey

Tbf, Keep the Faith was also a multiplatinum album that reached #1 in several countries and had three hit singles. If there has been an appreciable commercial decline post-[i[1989[/i], which sales figures might suggest, the concept might still apply as well as something like this can. I just don't think 1989 would be the NJ.

Except that Reputation kind of landed with a thud upon release, as opposed to feeling more hollow upon repeated listens.

That's subjective - I loved it upon release (I think it's a stronger album than 1989), and with time it's come to feel one of the artistic peaks of her catalog. To me, anyway

(If she didn't "pivot" w/Folklore, I assume Lover would have been her NJ? – splashy but bad lead single; a lot of buzz, but few awards; etc.)

Reactions to Bon Jovi albums were objective otoh.

I thought the idea here was nailing down objective criteria, otherwise what's the point. If someone on here says Purple Rain felt a bit hollow, that's Prince's New Jersey, who can argue?

P much everything in the OP is subjective.

I am 50 and "folklore" was the first Taylor Swift album for which I was aware thanks to media coverage that it was about to come out, the first one I listened to immediately on release, and the first one I've repeatedly listened to all the way through. ("evermore" was the second, for all three.) So from my perspective, as someone who doesn't listen to a ton of chart radio, 2020 was the FIRST time Swift had such a level of media saturation that it reached my eye/ear. (Of course I know "Shake It Off" like everybody else but could not have told you what album it's on.)

My kids and my wife and I are all into it and play it a lot.

If someone on here says Purple Rain felt a bit hollow, that's Prince's New Jersey, who can argue?

Judging from my attempts to make "Automatic For the People is R.E.M.'s New Jersey" happen, a lot of people!

I would vote for NAIHF, but I’m sure it’s been discussed ad nauseum ITT!

I would have said it was obvious it was Monster!

Like, the idea that there's some kind of objective universal rule that can be derived from Bon Jovi's 1988 album New Jersey (which I would probably rate as highly as Slippery When Wet fwiw) is more absurd than people talking about albums that felt a bit hollow to them.

I don’t think it’s a crazy statement that the biggest global artists of 2010-2012 (Swift, Kanye, Beyonce, Perry) have a lower profile ten years later?

I mean the way fame works now is different than in the hair metal days - filter bubbles creating a more loyal fanbase, longer career arcs because marketeers know better how artists can tailor their output better to a maturing fanbase, etc.

OK but Taylor is still gaining new fans, as evidenced by the anecdotes above; I don't think the same is true for Kanye or (maybe) Katy Perry. I think Taylor (and Beyoncé) remain as central to music/culture as it's possible for a long-term artist to be these days.

who is Googling these artist names in 2021, anyway

― r u rolling pop 2021 (morrisp), Tuesday, July 6, 2021 10:26 AM bookmarkflaglink

OMG GOOGLE FOR "TAYLOR" AND FIND NEW JERSEY

You would think Perry's audience had definitely shrunk, but she's still pulling almost 37 mil. monthly listeners on Spotify, her most recent single is doing decent-ish business there (18 mil. spins after six weeks), and her biggest late-model single, "Never Really Over", has racked up higher #s than some of her earlier, theoretically bigger hits.