Sparks: classic or dud?

i believe you are mistaken and someone else walks through the propaganda imagery! gaiman just holds up indiscreet iirc.

but maybe im the mistaken one!

Fyi I interviewed EW (and the boys) about the doc (the feature is in the super soaraway issue of Uncut mag on your newsstands now) and the original cut, which he showed to Cameron Crowe, was 4 hours long...

can anyone speak to the the reasoning behind putting it in multiplexes nationally (i think its on 500 screen?!) seems likea risky move

Doesn't look like anything else was new that week but The Hitman's Wife's Bodyguard

https://www.boxofficemojo.com/weekend/2021W25/?ref_=bo_wey_table_1

Edgar Wright’s ‘The Sparks Brothers’ Lights Up Specialty Box Office Amid Full Theater Reopenings In LA, NY

The Sparks Brothers grossed $265K this Father’s Day weekend on 534 screens ($489 per screen average), huge numbers for any documentary debut these days.

The strongest performing markets for the pop-rock doc were Los Angeles (with 18% of the gross in 48 theaters), New York, San Francisco, Austin and Chicago.

the original cut, which he showed to Cameron Crowe, was 4 hours long

I protest. He should have showed that to me.

And yeah it was actually a bit of a slick move since they had that week to themselves, nearly, just before F9 hits.

kurts did u see this at the Alamo

i saw it at century city mall where ronald is often spotted irl lol

I'm psyched for Annette because I'm coming at it from the Carax-fan's side and Holy Motors was awesomer-than-awesome.
From your reviews - thank you all! - I don't know if I'll be searching this doc (maybe I will right because I don't know much about Sparks), but it sounds like it's got some of the same problems I had with the recent XTC doc - too short, several eras undermentioned etc.

I was wondering how much talking head stuff there would be cause in the trailer they literally say “we didn’t want to make a typical doc w a bunch of random talking heads” even tho the trailer itself had plenty of random talking heads saying some quite ridiculous & hyperbolic shit like “every significant pop trend can be traced back to sparks”

Holy Motors is one of my favourite movies of the last however long and Baby Driver was the dampest of squibs. Had brief FOMO over missing the doc at the pictures (I think?) but nah, it's assuaged for now.

the point of including that hyperbole in the film is that the bloke saying "all pop music is rearranged Vince Clarke or rearranged Sparks" has his caption panickedly shuffling during the seconds that he's saying it, rushing to try and cover that he has written and arranged and played and produced pop music for Lorde and Taylor Swift and Lana Del Rey and The Chicks and etc

I echo sic this was great and Ron and Russell get most of the speaking time (I speak as a fan but not someone who has worn out the grooves on all the albums and a huge emotional investment).

Has there ever been one of these music documentaries where a celebrity/expert appears to say they DON'T like the artist? Closest I can think of is Mick Jagger in the Rodney Bingenheimer movie.

Marc almond in the Scott Walker one saying he thought tilt was shit

Loved the doc and the way it was structured made a lot of sense to me. A big part of the Sparks story is staying fully committed over many decades to this idea they had, and I think it made sense to present it album-by-album to really bring that out. It's touching, too, even though they probably didn't want it to be that way. At one point one of their band members talked about how respectful the Maels are to everyone on tour, Ron is shown giving that speech on stage about how they "don't take any of this for granted" etc. I was moved. The music business is full of assholes and that type of behaviour is often fodder for documentaries like this, so it was nice to see the flipside of that for a change. I love Ron's absolute commitment to his image, ghosting around LA looking like a beatnik spy in his mid 70s. Fantastic.

Rundgren summed it up really well near the end by saying something like: "It's heartening that something this weird stayed this weird for so long and wasn't dampened down into something less weird."

It's notable as well that the few business types in the film seem to be good eggs. Gary Stewart's good spirit was attested to by everyone then and especially after his tragic death, and Muff Winwood, admittedly also a producer, seems like he'd be a character to hang with and hear stories from.

Do the Maels or their fans in the film admit that any of the records were sub-standard?

for sure

Yeah, some in more detail than others. There's definitely ones where they essentially shrug a bit.

Meantime, on another tip, new Annette song out

“WE LOVE EACH OTHER SO MUCH” — the 2nd single release from the Sparks-penned movie musical #ANNETTE is out now!

Vocals by Adam Driver & Marion Cotillard. ✨

Listen now: https://t.co/PkHVRx1BrZ pic.twitter.com/8bVpiKMTLG

— SPARKS (@sparksofficial) June 25, 2021

Has there ever been one of these music documentaries where a celebrity/expert appears to say they DON'T like the artist? Closest I can think of is Mick Jagger in the Rodney Bingenheimer movie.

It's a mockumentary, but this reminds me of Paul Simon ("Did they influence you?" "No.") and Jagger ("...they were more of a Keith thing...") in The Rutles: All You Need Is Cash.

Read a rock bio by Canadian micro-celebrity Grant Lawrence, about his times as lead singer of the Smugglers and it truly seems like he didn't really like his own band and didn't think they were very good musically. It was depressing.

Metal docs are usually pretty good if you're looking for anti-good feeling. There's usually no shortage of commentators looking to pile in on Poison and the like.

I saw 2/3rds of the doc, which was fun, but the fact that I needed a break is kind of in line with why I've never been a big Sparks fan.

U fiend

lol. they're not bad, but a little bit goes a long way, and a lot of bit goes a bit too far.

Enjoyed it…does what a great music doc should do and makes you appreciate an act you’ve never fully connected with…also made me realise how traumatised I was by Ron Mael when I was a young kid,..still find it quite suffocating… yes it’s a bit long but liked how it gave each album due reverence which they deserved…funnily enough I really like the first song from ‘Annette’…has a ‘This town…’ energy about it…recommended

I really really enjoyed this, and I've never really been a Sparks fan; mainly because their catalogue is so vast and deep I just never really dove in aside from liking what amounted to their 'hits' (which was really just 'this town' and 'music that you can dance to'). I was expecting to find this exhausting based on Chaki's comments but I never did, these guys were just entirely too likable. It's impossible to come away from this doc with anything other than a deep appreciation for the two of them.

the former drummer breaking into tears was...something

I have since learned she was on ST:TNG.

now that it's on Netflix I finally got a chance to see it and I think it's great. sure it's a little cutesy and self-consciously whimsical but it's also very well made and I think Sparks themselves are a fascinating subject - as a few people mentioned they come off more like something cooked up for a movie than an actual band. even after watching it you don't really get any sense of what they're like as people. there's no tragedy in their lives, just albums that didn't sell and band members they had to part ways with. Jane Wiedlin mentioning she briefly dated Russell is all you get.

the problem with the documentary is that it's both too long and too short. the album-by-album approach is exhausting and cliché for such a creative and unique band but I am not sure how else you'd do it. there is something genuinely interesting about every album. they never became a zombie band and half their albums are a "new sound" record...in fact that's sort of the whole point of the documentary. but even paring it down to "just" 2 1/2 hours it feels like a lot is missing. in particular its strange that their influence on electronic music is covered extensively but not on glam rock or New Wave in general, since some of those 70s records felt seriously ahead of the curve. secondly there's almost no mention at all about their gear or songwriting style; Ron has such a unique melodic sense but there's no real attempt to get into what exactly it is he does so well. thirdly the doc is such a lovefest that there's almost no criticism of them at all, just some general ughs and "well that didn't work" which I think leaves out a major part of the story which is that they weren't always great; they lost their mojo many times and got it back. in fact I always found it interesting how their creative low point was during the 80's despite the fact that they seemed so tailor made for the MTV era of catchy synthpop. and a lot of it was because they adopted a more conventional and "state of the art" sound using modern keyboards which sound like total garbage. fourthly, Ron is a scrawny fucker ain't he? I had no idea he always looked so skeletal. fifthly...yeah, as mentioned, the drummer crying was really odd. she wasn't even with the band at the time!

even after watching it you don't really get any sense of what they're like as people.

A while back I was seriously thinking about a pitch to write what I hoped would be some kind of authorized biography of the band or at least something with their participation -- this was just planning stage stuff, hadn't spoken to anyone about it -- and then I read a new comment by Russell in some piece somewhere where he said that a book biography would never be in the cards for them, and that they had no interest. I took it as a sign and let the idea go; obviously you can write about them but you'll never get them involved beyond what they're choosing to share. For that reason alone I think the film is valuable; it really is as much as we'll get.

Ron is a scrawny fucker ain't he? I had no idea he always looked so skeletal.

I was surprised at seeing him as a not-so-skinny jock teenager.

fifthly...yeah, as mentioned, the drummer crying was really odd. she wasn't even with the band at the time!

She was supposed to star in the film they were trying to make, wasn't she?

they lost their mojo many times and got it back

The film is pretty clear about this without beating them up about it - it's more interested in how always doing something different next time sometimes pays off for them and sometimes doesn't. (Plus the fact that they haven't made a bad record since the '80s and have been solidly great for the past two decades means that there's not much to bemoan in the last hour!)

the drummer crying was really odd. she wasn't even with the band at the time!

Christi Hardon worked with them consistently through this period as one of the many lost projects that the film doesn't cover; Russell discovered her working the makeup counter of a department store, and they spent years trying to reboot the svengali side of their career (the previous instances also not covered in the film) with her as a front-woman. Haydon's stint as their "drummer" was basically them not having any other collaborators but wanting to present as a band on European TV appearances - note that she pretty much just played a couple of standing syndrums.

This interview with her is interesting.

ok that part I might have missed. the caption just says she was the Sparks drummer from 1994-1996. I guess it would have made sense that she met them through that film, since they don't say otherwise how she got involved with the group. still a weird moment because there's not really a range of emotion in the film. the Maels themselves don't say anything about it! and obviously very little of this stuff they were working on 24/7 for five years ever came out. though I imagine that's what a lot of the bonus tracks on the 3-disc Gratuitous Sax reissue are?

The film is pretty clear about this without beating them up about it - it's more interested in how always doing something different next time sometimes pays off for them and sometimes doesn't. (Plus the fact that they haven't made a bad record since the '80s and have been solidly great for the past two decades means that there's not much to bemoan in the last hour!)

right but it's kind of presented as a commercial thing, like "they were out of step with the times" or "it was too weird for their audience". they made some bad records. and in fact they seemed to come when they *weren't* trying anything new.

xxpost That interview is great.

The link in the interview leads to this interview with page 3 stunna Linda Lusardi, appears from it that Tsui Hark was going to direct 'Mai The Psychic Girl'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ab2JoGRgFe4

Even now, their lives are so private there's nothing known about how they are when stood down. You just assume they live apart (being adults) but family is not even a mystery, there's nothing. Russell having dated Jane Wiedlin is as deep as it gets.

I assume Ned is on nodding terms w/them, so if he's had the red light then I guess nobody will.

they adopted a more conventional and "state of the art" sound using modern keyboards which sound like total garbage

like you say, this was trying something new for them! it just turned out that, as with “going rock” when punk was happening, it didn’t complement their own style, or Ron’s writing interests at the time.

(often, giving themselves genre or style boundaries pays off fantastically, as with the Moroder album, Li’l Beethoven’s repetition & faux-classical pretensions, Bergman leading to Annette, the one-off attempt at writing a song with Kapranos almost immediately turning into a whole band - so it’s more that these tries didn’t spark than that they aimed to sell out and fucked it up.)

I was surprised at seeing him as a not-so-skinny jock teenager.

That would be Russell, not Ron.

appears from it that Tsui Hark was going to direct 'Mai The Psychic Girl'

Yup, this was mentioned at the time -- liner notes for the early 1990s Profile 2 CD best-of on Rhino drew that connection, and is also why there's a later song featuring him on GS&SV called, of course, "Tsui Hark."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5cYZnKpEBE

I assume Ned is on nodding terms w/them, so if he's had the red light then I guess nobody will.

We've met at larger events briefly and they remember me from when I ran the online fan discussion list (when such things were novel) from the mid-90s into the 2000s; Russell at least lurked there in deep cover, and I've interviewed him briefly once or twice. I claim nothing more than that; however, their manager Sue, who was featured in the documentary, and I have chatted off and on more regularly. Again, my book idea was just a wild hair; I hadn't even gotten around to an initial note of inquiry to her before I read that Russell quote and quietly ditched it.

sic is generally OTM there in terms of what works/what doesn't for Sparks, and there really is no question the late 80s was a dry gulch for them. It's worth noting that the arc could have even gotten more exhaustive because they very much did release work pre-GS&SV in the 1990s; I specifically remember reading Simon Price's interview with them in late 1993 when this one-off single with Fini Tribe came out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Iz53uzlNls

Including that would have slightly undercut the lengthy lull period that the documentary was establishing...but in turn would have made a long film even longer!

There's two hours of extras via the Blu-ray, FWIW, and that's not even including the separate full-length concert!

Blimey, gonna have to plump for that one. Who knows, a certain UK TV pop quiz show appearance...

(then again, last I heard it was 'missing believed wiped')

The Rhino set is so good and I wish it was still in print instead of the inferior movie soundtrack

The liner notes alone! Amazing details.

This interview with her is interesting.🕸

The more distance I have from this doc... the more I hate it! Edgar Wright sux!

It rocks and I just saw One Night in Soho and that rocked too