Words, usages, and phrases that annoy the shit out of you...

What's the 'up' even doing in the phrase 'fix up' anyway? US English especially is full of these added(-on!) prepositions that seem mainly there for poetic cadence. There's also:

Head up, close out, change up (I know this meanS something specific in baseball), beat out, swap out, build out

“I’m not saying ____ but I’m not not saying it either.”

cf. HAAAAAATE "sorry not sorry"

I'm not too keen on 'in spite of, or perhaps because of'

I often wonder why in British/Australian usage, “washing” as a noun means laundry but “washing up” means kitchen dishes.

That's funny. In American usage, "washing" as a noun is uncommon, and "washing up" means cleaning your face/hands, e.g. from being outside before a meal

My parents sometimes call the dishwasher the washing-up machine.

On the subject of laundry, I often find myself lost for words when I'm trying to describe liquid laundry detergent. I mean, I should just call it that, I guess, but it seems kind of unwieldy. I think in the UK I might have called it washing liquid, but that seems not specific enough even there.

don't forget "warshing"

What's the 'up' even doing in the phrase 'fix up' anyway?

They're call phrasal verbs and English has thousands upon thousands of them... very tricky for non-native speakers since the prepositions and particles tacked on are for the most part semantically empty.

US English especially is full of these added(-on!) prepositions that seem mainly there for poetic cadence.

verb + preposition is just a phrasal verb -- they are rampant in english and brutal for learners
there's usually a one-word alternative and bonus for comprehension you have to be able to parse both as well as tell the difference between a phrasal verb and a prepositional phrase. poetry or rhythmic flow doesn't have much to do with it afaik

lol xp!!! <3

one of my favorite markers of Southern American English is that we don't put things away, we put them up.

xpost great minds <3

In the UK, does one brush their teeth, or clean their teeth? I feel like I've seen both

Both.

exception -- most of my generation 1.5 students used the term "search up" for "perform an internet search" ("i searched up the instructions") which i took as an interesting turn in the life of phrasal verbs

(xp) ... or either, rather.

poetry or rhythmic flow doesn't have much to do with it afaik

What do you consider the prepositions are there for, La Lechera – do you disagree with f.hazel and me that they are largely semantically empty?

I'm not even sure I agree with myself. "I ate up my dinner" is slightly different to "I ate my dinner", say. It kind of means "I got it down me", which is itself one of those idiomatic phrases that must be nightmare for learners of English because it's made up of such common words.

Idly wondering to myself why Excel has a Lookup function. That certainly can't be about poetry right? The preposition seems completely unnecessary.

Equally, I'm not going to be the one to tell Grace Jones Pull Up to the Bumper Baby isn't poetry so.

In SW England some of us ask where things are to

OK my longest-running worst thing on adverts - nonsense causality.
"M&S believe our strawberries are the tastiest ever, SO I'm going to meet one of the growers". Why would the second part logically follow from the first?

"At Sainsburys we believe that being with family and friends is important, which is why bananas are half-price this week"
Just have two separate sentences!

i do not find them semantically empty and i almost always agree with f hazel! my most controversial thought about phrasal verbs is that they are insider/outsider markers but i think that about almost everything lol :)

look up = search up = search

Making me think of an old joke(?) about running up a dress.

I think the 'up' in "knocked up" is actually pretty important to the phrase

my most controversial thought about phrasal verbs is that they are insider/outsider markers

they certainly function as markers, but it seems unlikely to me they originated purely to serve that function.

does how they function matter less than how they originated? i don't think so

from your calling this out as being a controversial opinion I inferred you meant to say it was their only function, not an acquired one after the fact.

welp you inferred incorrectly/inaccurately :)

you were off-tm

OFF-TRADEMARK?!11!1!!1

you're an insider you know what it means

calling out?
or calling in, calling on, calling up?

do you disagree with f.hazel and me that they are largely semantically empty?

I meant you often cannot easily derive the meaning of a phrasal verb from an analysis of the words it consists of, the way you can with a sentence like "she drives the car" if you know what those four words mean. So the "up" in "hit someone up" (as in "ask someone for something" or "get in touch with someone") is semantically empty... a semantic analysis of the parts of the phrasal verb won't help you.

This is not to say they're not doing anything. "Swap" and "swap out" (to use one you named) are not the same... I can swap hats with my friend Janine and it just means we traded hats. But to "swap out" has a more specific connotation. If I swap out hats with Janine, it suggests that for one of us the hat was not doing something it needed to do (probably make one of us look cool or keep the sun out of our eyes, etc.). Same with "close" vs "close out"... if a store closes, I assume it'll open again in the morning. If a store closes out, I assume it's out of business, closed permanently.

lol just joshin LL

oof-tm

my most controversial thought about phrasal verbs is that they are insider/outsider markers

(shrugs) since non-native ESL speakers obviously struggle with phrasal verbs and this is equally apparent to them as it is to native speakers, I don't understand what you think would be controversial about this opinion, but... eh, whatever.

The context that I first noticed “close out” (it’s not heard in the UK, I don’t think) was a American talking of “closing out” an episode of a podcast. Just “close” would have meant exactly the same, no?

Similarly with “head” and “head up” etc

there are hundreds of phrasal verbs in english and we have new ones every day (pop out, search up) -- i don't think we have time or energy to legislate the worth of each

just give in ;)

Oh yeah, it doesn’t really bother me. Wrong thread, I guess.

A lot of those prepositions in phrasal verbs seem to indicate a completed action - “ate” vs “ate up”, “closed” vs “closed out”.

Pop out is definitely not new! But I think you mean in it a different way to I would generally use it.

"Knock up" and "ring up" are British idioms, not USian ones

start a thread on phrasal verbs and I will show up!

Again a US/UK thing but I never used to hear “the colours pop”, meaning the colours really stand out. If anything I’d have said “pop out” for that. But “pop out” more often to mean “I saw his head pop out of the sunroof” or “I’ve got to pop out to the shops”. It’s a very useful phrasal verb!

Pop out also means to go to a party or make a social appearance
Some people say pop in and others say pop out

* I’ll pop in around 9 before going to the (xyz)
* I’m gonna pop out around. 9, see you there

“Close out” also means to sell the last of something on clearance, in America.

it can also mean to stay a bar until closing time!

stay AT a bar

Ah OK, I’ve never heard anyone say pop out to mean pop in. You’re sure you didn’t just hear it to mean that from context when actually they meant pop out as in leave their home (on the way to the event?)