Is Bob Dylan overrated?

Hah, good point!

My favorite take from someone I know who attended Bob Dylan shows throughout his life: "I've seen him a dozen times. One of them was one of the greatest shows I've EVER seen...and for the rest of them, he was fucking terrible."

lol the first time I saw him (around 2010) I thought he was incredible. I talked to someone else later who was at the same show; they were amazed I enjoyed it, they thought his voice was awful lol

Second time in 2014 I had a closer seat and it was just so overwhelming and awesome that I barely remember individual moments. Totally sober at the time!

One of the few shows I've ever seen that put me to sleep, back when he had two fiddle players. At least I got to see Merle Haggard open up. Other times I've seen him he was absolutely great. After the time I fell asleep I kind of swore him off, but I know someone that saw him the last time he came through town and said it was pretty solid, especially when he did the crooner stuff.

The best shows I've seen him do were the two that happened in the last few years, the first one opening for Mavis Staples (who was great). I think I know why - in both cases, he played the same exact setlist for the entire leg of the tour, so by the time I saw him, it was like a smooth, running machine where there was no guesswork. (And even two years apart, both shows I saw still had a LOT of overlap in the setlist, maybe 3/4.) Worst show was unfortunately the one time I was close-up, like in the GA section and close to the edge of the stage. The excitement of being that close really wears off when he's not only messing up the words but doing it so bad that someone in the band reacts in horror.

FWIW, once I became very familiar with Charley Patton, it kind of struck me that Dylan's approach to performing comes from him, especially since Dylan has name-checked him quite a few times in the few interviews he's given in his later years. Read Robert Palmer's classic Deep Blues where he discusses how one of Patton's own peers complained that they couldn't understand Patton - once you make that connection, a lot of the same elements apply, where singing becomes more about rhythmic vocalizing rather than enunciating words. On the one hand, that sounds odd when it's artist who made his name with songwriting, especially the lyrics, but it also makes perfect sense given his connection (especially the musical elements of his songs) to traditional folk music, which also encompasses deep Mississippi blues (and many other things, to be fair).

Also, it looks like my second paragraph may conflict with the anecdote about the worst show I ever saw, but even when Dylan's enunciation isn't crystal clear, it's not the same as forgetting the words altogether. In that show I mentioned, he got clearly forgot an entire line when he got ready to sing, drew a blank, and then very late in that space where the line should be, he dropped a random glob of gibberish like it was a piece of food falling out of his mouth. That ain't Patton.

*he clearly forgot

On the one hand, that sounds odd when it's artist who made his name with songwriting, especially the lyrics, but it also makes perfect sense

Not odd at all, imo. Dylan's lyrics have always prized rhythm and sound over meaning or the words themselves.

The first time I saw him was on a late 70s tour that started (in Japan?) with pix of him in makeup, careful coiff, white scarf,Neil Diamond-Elivs-type glittery outfit, and stage patter: "We;;, as my friend Jerry Garcia says, I must be getting down the road." in Birmingham, his recombinat orchestra swarmed the stage, and then he came out kind of hunched over, blinking, hair flattened on one side, in what looked like a wrinkled Cisco Kind outfit (little black jacket and matching pants, w white fringe and brocade around the inset jewelry, also dirty white tennis shoes (in the 80s, I had a table at a record show across from a dealer who kept showiing excerpts from that whole tour, always with the same outfit clearly visible, unless he had 20 of 'em).
All the performers were standing in small groups, and he would beckon over either a whole subset, maybe put two or more of those together, or some from combo A, some from B, maybe order off-menu from the wings as well, like a guy whom he introduced as having played sax on some famous record of the early 60s or 50s, new providing flute for a verra nice trio "Blowin' In The Wind." Then a pre-speed metal big band "Masters of War." The female black gospel-style group sang all of "Rainy Day Women." I don't remember his own voice that well, but wotta showman.

Sscond time I saw him was in the early 90s, also in North Alabama, this time at Oak Mountain (now or more recently Verizon) Ampitheater. Smaller group, very hot, the Never-Ending Tour band of that era, natch. Vocals were mostly low-key, okay, main thing with him was excellent guitar, rocking out and fingerpicking the acoustica. "Watchtower" was diabolical, galloping up and then by, fading out, then coming back, the Roadrunner bee-beep, screwing with Wile E. Coyote and the folks in the Tower and the Ampitheater too. Eventually the middle of something else swallowed it along the way to "Highway 61," with steel (and maybe slide) guitar as very extended siren call.

"Well, as my friend Jerry" etc that should be

There's some kind of new doc out today: https://www.sonypictures.com/movies/bobdylanoddsandends

Has anyone watched the Shadow Kingdom thing? Just learned that Buck Meek of Big Thief was in his band, which is cool.

(apparently the answer to birdistheword’s question below is “yes”; it’s still available to watch for 2 days. I can see a live performance being handled that way, but a concert film? if I pay $25 to watch something on a computer screen, I’d like at least to “own” it and be able to rewatch it at my leisure…)

I wonder if we can buy tickets AFTER the show and watch it in that two-day window, i.e. wait for fans to say whether it was a good or less-than-good show.

Nice to see "What Was It You Wanted?" on the Shadow Kingdom setlist.

watched it, really really great. he's singing so we'll, band was fantastic. definitely odd almost twin peaks staging, really worked well overall

Yeah, I could have sworn I saw someone post that this band and some of their versions are better than any previous versions, period. Did I hear that Dylan played some guitar again, or did I misread?

He did a bit, sometimes played but sometimes just hanging around his neck, mostly just singing without guitar

His voice is really good, the version of "Forever Young" was really something

I guess not touring for the last year or so has helped Dylan's voice

It was really good, Dylan was in great voice and the band, arrangements, and song selections were all great. It was a little short, but the show's subtitle "the Early Songs of Bob Dylan" has me hoping there will be another installment

his vocals have actually been in great shape the past couple years — seems like those sinatra records gave him a new approach that was less growl / bark.

Thought Shadow Kingdom was great, totally unique arrangements ... maybe the settings were occasionally a little cornball, but it was fun nonetheless. Some mystery about what exactly was going on — the band (at least the electric guitarist) was definitely miming, he didn't match up with what was being played. Not sure if they were all playing along to pre-recorded tracks or if there were overdubs etc.

I can't find the tweet now, but I saw someone mentioning that there was one song where Bob fumbled the lyrics a little at the start (and it was left in), but that it appeared to be dubbed in vocals later on in the same song. I haven't watched this yet (probably won't tbh, given all that I have to do in the next few days).

yes definitely noticed that, esp the guitarist on acoustic was doing stuff that wasn't in the track

I appreciate this approach

In his new WTF interview, Rick Rubin tells a story where Bob Dylan, George Harrison, and Tom Petty are writing a Traveling Wilburys' song together. Harrison leaves for a minute, and Dylan leans over to Petty and whispers, completely seriously, "You know, he was in the Beatles."

— Luke Epplin (@LukeEpplin) July 19, 2021

^That belongs in the "great Dylan stories" thread

My dad hooked me up with his username/pw for the Shadow Kingdom stream... I agree with the above posts, both Dylan and his band sound great!

Hey look it's TylerW in the post Shadow Kingdom livestream!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxL7xKQ7VyM

One of the two EPs is named "Max Ice"... I'm gonna assume that's a Dylan pseudonym (like "Jack Frost").

(EPs = Executive Producers. watchin' the credits roll)

watching it now, he makes a lot of significant lyric changes to "When I Paint My Masterpiece"

Still going toward his masterpiece!
completely seriously B-but can we be completely sure of that, or anything? Bob Dylan the Original Andy Kaufman

The Bootleg Series, Vol. 8.0: Tall Boy Cans
https://products1.imgix.drizly.com/ci-labatt-max-ice-8e62415d4b7c8cf4.jpeg

"All the cold beer cans in the sun...

Wonder if this is not unlike Paul Simon’s last album, re-recording songs for posterity and to fix details (like lyrics).

Part 1 of the livestream is on youtube now but I can't imagine it will stay up for long, part 2 has already been pulled:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJXDZyITIog

he sounds good!

is the audience vaccinated

this is good as hell

xp I raised that q to my dad (why is only the band masked?) – he thinks it’s for Dylan-y artistic reasons, not safety.

watching again, "Forever Young" is so gorgeous, goosebumps

video unavailable, ugh

My hope is that there is indeed another tranche of these songs (as theorized above), and that the whole thing is released as an album.

Yes, I hope this is going to be properly released at some point, like Nick Cave's "streaming only" Alexandra Palace solo show that ended up as a regular release after a few months.

stay tuned

Just like the Nick Cave thing, so much obvious effort and expense went into to producing it that I would be shocked* if it wasn't released as an able

*at this point I would like to invoke the Bob Dylan Caveat Clause being that I would in no way shape or form be shocked if it was never released because Dylan is going to Dylan

"album"

They've extended Shadow Kingdom for a week.

What's the limit on streaming? If I buy a ticket, can I stream it only once, or do I have a window (like 24 hours) and an IP address limit where I can stream it multiple times?

I've streamed it several times, using login/pw that originated on my dad's computer.

Got it. Thanks morrisp

Dylan has just announced ... 4 years' worth of touring the USA?

why so short?

It's a "World Tour" – the first batch of dates (this fall) are US shows.

(sorry – "World Wide Tour")

RS subscription "offer" blocking page for me, but here's the hed & sub:
Bob Dylan Launches New Era of Never Ending Tour at Captivating Milwaukee Opener
Dylan dedicated the show to Milwaukee native Les Paul, and played nearly every song from 'Rough and Rowdy Ways'
But also saw a glimpse of first show without Charlie Sexton since 2013!