Elden Ring: YOU DIED on a horse

looks absolutely incredible, sounds like it's trying to deliver on everything you could possibly want from "open world dark souls" and even more (there's a summonable monster collecting mechanic, combat is taking on some aspects from sekiro too), and bc it's fromsoft i believe they can actually pull it off. world design sounds like it's taking a lot from botw while directly addressing the biggest problems i had with it too

there's one more interview out there, in german but it's comprehensible enough with machine translation: https://www.4players.de/4players.php/dispbericht/Allgemein/Vorschau/40800/84122/0/Elden_Ring.html

I mean, it basically looks and sounds like another Dark Souls, which is fine with me.

Dark Souls (or at least some of them) are basically open world games anyway so i'm bout it bout it

Yesss, perfectly happy with how Dark Souls (except with added horse, jump button, wayfinding, stealth, and NPCs moving their mouths) this looks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JldMvQMO_5U

that looks really cool, definite Breath of the Wild things going on with it

Super cool, super glad this is coming out on PS4. Nice to see so much comfortably familiar stuff recycled from Souls/Sekiro games (and borrowed from BotW), plus new stuff.

Witcher RPG structure, Elder Scrolls sprawl, Dark Souls dialogue/lore/design/combat/UI and Breath of the Wild improv/central castle mechanic sounds like just what i'm looking for. just keep the stakes continually high and the procedurally generated shit minimal and you got me.

The summoning spirits thing seems intriguing, as is the absence of health bars and the like in those clips.

Oh the HUD is definitely just turned off for the demo, to make it look more cinematic I'm sure.

Ive never played Dark Souls (the way everyone talks about how hard it is put me off - I dont play games to get MORE stressed out). I love and still play Skyrim and BOTW, would I like this? It looks very nice.

The thing about Dark Souls and all its successors is that they're difficult in a very specific way; it's all about paying careful attention to things like the timing of your own attacks. It's not hard the way a bullet-hell game is hard. It's a slower-paced, almost meditative challenge. I didn't think I liked "hard" games either, but I did get pretty into DS1. I found it frustrating and I did eventually slide off it. A few boss fights aside, I didn't find it "stressful" exactly. YMMV of course.

That having been said, I'd love to see From embrace the recent trend of allowing players a temporary assist if they're stuck, a la God Mode in Hades, or the assist features in Celeste.

I think so? The difficulty of the games is way overstated imo, and this one is sure to be the most user-friendly version so far. It's more that you can't rush through or brute force it, at least not on a first playthrough. And there are so many different ways to approach the game, you can summon helpers and use magic from a distance if you don't want to get deep into the melee combat.

Forks otm...like, I get to enjoy the 'aimlessly riding around on a horse' mechanic of BotW and Red Dead Redemption, except when you get off the horse, it's Dark Souls? Yes please.

xp

Definitely overstated imo.... you mostly just have to pay close attention and remember things, and you're rarely put in a position where you can't take a breath (admittedly the only souls game I've played is demon's on ps3 but they apparently get easier from there)

To expand on X's point, I'd say the "taking a breath" aspect is a huge part of these games, eg. bonfires. The moments of peace and quiet are all the more delicious after having slogged through lugubrious combat

*part of the appeal of these games*

A lot of these games are indeed pretty meditative, in mood and design. They're lonely and emphasize exploration and experimentation. All the dying and setbacks become amusing after a while, with the reward being how easy stuff that once challenged you becomes later on in the game, as if to emphasize, "See? you've come so far!" The only real stress comes with the boss fights, imo, which is where the real challenges lie, with a few specific areas or enemy exceptions here and there. The bosses, on the other hand, both impede progress and are the least forgiving, plus are more or less the only enemies where you can see just how close you are to beating them while still dying. Or, you know dying in just a couple of seconds, which can be frustrating, too. Don't think I found any/many enemies in Dark Souls 1/3 or Bloodborne as annoying or frustrating as many of the enemies in Sekiro, though, but clearly different strokes, etc. Maybe I'm just blocking them out. I'm sure I can find some posts of mine to the contrary.

Also the boss fights are designed to psyche you out with their epic scale and music, but almost all of them are a matter of learning the boss's moves and how to avoid them, and picking your moments.

Yeah, I remember reading a recommendation that sometimes when you hit a wall, just turn off the sound. Though sometimes you miss certain cues when you do that. Regardless of moves or scale or whatever, there will always be some bosses that some people can beat with their bare fists blindfolded the first attempt, but you'll fight 50 times and barely make headway. I tend to get bored after a while more than frustrated, which is another reason to turn down or off the sound.

I definitely turn off the music sometimes (you can do that and leave the sound on).

!

Yeah! Just go into settings and there should be separate volume sliders for music and sound fx.

I never had a PS3 so it was interesting to come to the Demon's Souls remake after playing all the other games. Some of the levels, one bonfire and all, seem monstrously punishing compared to later stuff, but the bosses don't really have any capacity to surprise when you've been through all the more developed, multi-stage/gimmicky ones from later games

I beat most of them in one try so far

Didn't get a network test code :(

Tons of info & videos out there today from people who have early access. I'm trying to avoid spoilers for the most part, except for stuff about the mechanics.

Standing poise (instead of Dark Souls 3-style hyperarmor) = in (not sure how I feel about this)
Powerstancing (ie you can equip two weapons of the same type and get a different dual-wielding moveset) = in
Mixing your own combo potions that can make you explode = sure why not
Solo hosts can't be invaded unless they use a few items = ok, fine
Invaders get a compass to see what direction the host is = sick
Invaders also get an item to quickly vanish from the host's world and reappear nearby = oh my god

It really does seem like a blend of all their games plus a bunch of new stuff, can't wait.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzFR5HsPcng

all sounds cool. I have no problem with spoilers, because not only will I forget by the time I get it, I can't play any of these games without walkthrough help anyway lol.

i have the same problem/gift with forgetting everything! really comes in handy on very rare occasions

Just finished that video and have some thoughts. One, I've never played Dark Souls II because I've ... well, I guess I just skipped it, but I've heard mixed things (and there are essentially two versions of it, for that matter). But it is interesting that some of its elements have made their way to other games, despite its reputation as a disappointment. For example, as I understand it your health can be halved in DS2, and a similar mechanic was brought into Sekiro. And according to this video, power stances from DS2 have made their way to this one, too. Second, I've never used magic in any of these games, because choosing magic is like choosing an entirely different, novel way to play the game, and if you're only going to play it once I'm not sure magic is the way to do it. But maybe it is in this game, because magic looks super cool. Third, I really hope this plays well on PS4 (and other last generation systems), but I have a bad feeling between it being open world and generally newer than the past several From games it might really benefit from the speed and power of newer systems. That's one advantage of (as this video points out) From never being on the tech vanguard, because it means the games generally don't *need* next gen tech to run. (I know Demon's Souls is PS5 exclusive, but those that have played it, do you think it could run on a PS4?)

Anyway, I can already tell there are going to be a lot of funny videos generated by this game.

Oh, also, looks like you don't take fall damage when you jump, which would have been a very perverse thing for From to do, so I'm glad they didn't do it! Or at least, maybe there are height restrictions/allowances? And I like how there is environmental damage that can be done by at least bosses, which I know was in "Sekiro," though I can't recall if it was introduced there.

Demon's Souls is quite a tech showcase, it wouldn't have been able to run at that framerate on ps4, and some of the lighting/particle effects look like they would have been a big stretch too

I like Dark Souls 2 to some degree, some dispiritingly shit world design like the infamous Earthen Peak Elevator Jaunt travesty aside. It's like a difficult 3rd album that isn't among the classics but fits a certain mood when you happen to want it. I found the DLC far too much of a grim slog though

Elden Ring looks unreasonably good, can't wait

This game looks fun, and by early accounts the open world design is supposed to be good, but I can't help but wonder whether the openness actually adds much to the Souls formula. The main draw of the world design in DS1 (admittedly the only one of these I've played) was for me, its labyrinthine density. Eldenringland just looks kinda vast and drab to me.

i was moderately interested in this game, but after watching some of those videos posted above i am now EAGERLY ANTICIPATING. my only problem is i don't have a system for it, and i was leaning toward getting a steam deck rather than a ps5.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9DWTt37khU

Fwiw, both videos note the difficulty of the first mandatory boss.

i showed the game a friend of mine who really likes dark souls, and he seemed to be a bit disappointed at first. i think he was thinking of it as a souls-like game, which, it is in some ways of course, very much so. but just being open world and adding jumping completely changes it. it reminds me of GTAIII or breath of the wild in terms of how those games were a departure from the games they built on

Souls-like.

And something else I was thinking about, given From's propensity for hidden walls/loot/enemies/NPCs/entire levels and/or alternate endgames, I wonder what that portends for an open world game? Gonna be a lot of OCD dudes slashing at every bush, rock or piece of foliage, looking for secret stuff, a la the first Zelda.

To be honest the open world part isn't particularly compelling to me. I do like the idea of all the new handcrafted zones that are the equivalent of large Dark souls areas, and a whole bunch of new build options and mechanics (and invasions, of course).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEypd23I0pQ

here's footage of the PS4 version - it seems like it runs without any serious issues or significant visual downgrades. i got into the network test on PS4 so i'll see how it is in a few hours from now.

i'm not at all concerned about the open world, all the footage of the network test has made it very clear that it's avoiding all the common open world pitfalls (repetitive content, big for the sake of being big, etc.) & is very dense with unique content. there are at least 10 bosses in the network test area alone (which is estimated to be around 1/12 of the full game's map). it's a big change, sure, but i don't think anywhere near as radical a shift as say GTA3 or BOTW were - the core gameplay is still very much the same despite the change in environmental scale.

For example, as I understand it your health can be halved in DS2, and a similar mechanic was brought into Sekiro.

DS2's max health decreasing on death (in increments down to a min of 50%) was more of an iteration on Demon's Souls' mechanic where you lost half your max health when you were in 'soul form' opposed to 'human form', which happened upon dying while human. in both cases, the game was generally balanced around the halved max health, with more than that being a bonus, but it was still kinda presented as a punishment. i think both were intended to give the player another incentive to go into human form, which enabled being invaded as well as summoning other players as well as removing the max health penalty. DS3 improved upon this by having embers, which worked the same way in enabling multiplayer, provide a bonus to your max health instead.

there wasn't any sort of max health restriction upon death mechanic in Sekiro though, and there doesn't seem to be in Elden Ring either.

DS2 is one of the weaker souls games but it's still worth playing. the issues with it are largely that the encounter design isn't quite as tight, the world design is clumsier & it rarely reaches the same sorts of high-point boss fights as the best of the series. i'd still put it above Demon's Souls at least.

i may be a minority opinion here, but i don't worry at all about whether something can run well enough on a certain machine. i can count the number of times i have been bothered by the framerate/slowdown of a game on one hand. i think part of it is that i came to gaming age playing games like LIFE FORCE. the slowdown was part of the game. the bug became the feature. aiming for this perfect-smooth framerate ideal is understandable but also kind of disappointing. it's just different, i guess

blighttown was pretty miserable at times in the original console versions of ds1 due to all the slowdown. it's certainly something to be concerned about & can make experiences much worse. with cross-gen games like this, it does happen sometimes that the last-gen versions are significantly inferior due to cutting corners trying to get the game to run on hardware they weren't focusing on, but that thankfully doesn't seem to be the case here at all.

IDK I think having a smooth frame rate is critical for a game like this where you have to time movements precisely. And while 60 is nice, 30 is perfectly good as long as it stays consistent. I played DS1 on Switch and it runs great!

As a relatively recent returner to games, I've learned my lesson the hard way. When I got "Doom" for the Switch it kinda ran like shit, even after a few updates. The slowdowns definitely affected game play in such a fast paced game, and even things like jumping were impacted. Like, you would run at a couple of spots (even with no enemies) and suddenly things would slow down, right before you pressed jump, and you would fall to your death. But tbf, "Doom" is almost uniquely busy and fast paced, and yeah, I can't think of another game off the top of my head with issues like that.

That said, I sort of suspect at least some of my problems with "Sekiro" were related to the frame rate. Usually I don't notice/care, but that game was all about timing, and while it could have been me (I mean, for sure it was me), it's also possible it was just that much trickier for me at 30fps than it would have been at 60.

there wasn't any sort of max health restriction upon death mechanic in Sekiro though

Oh, I just meant the mechanic that makes you lose half your souls or whatever. And gives everybody dragonrot. There's a cost of dying, which I found irritating since these games are built around dying over and over again. DS1 and DS3 don't have that cost, and Bloodborne gives you a shot to get some echoes back, too.

I never minded slow downs either, it's like slo mo at a dramatic moment.

Glad the PS4 version runs well, I never cared about graphics but had to admit that 60fps is really nice after playing the DS1 remaster and now DS3 on PS5. But I played all of the other games at 30fps for hundreds of hours and had a great time, so it's definitely not essential.

very positive impressions

https://kotaku.com/elden-ring-may-just-reinvent-the-open-world-genre-1848093261

I look forward to suddenly earning souls from some NPC that dies fighting enemies on the other side of the map.

I keep wondering if I should give the other From games a shot? I just got incredibly fed up with BB but maybe having a shield would make me feel better? (Probably not.)

On the one hand having experience in one of these games helps with all of them since they have some basics in common, but on the other hand, ER looks to be the most user-friendly of them all (from little things like the menus and upgrade systems, to how the combat system seems to align with what you see onscreen in a more intuitive way, rather than having to look up online how combos/poise/parries/etc work...that's mostly for pvp though).

Generally speaking though Dark Souls 1 and 2 are slower paced, while the combat in Bloodborne is faster (and DS3 is somewhere in-between).

Shields in these games are mostly there to taunt you and weigh you down.

Do you use summons / tears?

Never. :) No slight to those who do, it just doesn't feel satisfying when I do, like I haven't really engaged with the mechanics of the fight.

the mounted knight guarding the entrance to Maliketh - I died to him more than the boss!

Oh yeah he's famously tough. So, I *did* summon someone on him this time around, just because I remember fighting him solo the first time and I didn't feel like doing it again.

i don't ever summon (although I caved on the Malenia fight), but I used Mimic Tear for the majority of my first playthrough. I couldn't imagine beating Elden Beast without some sort of tear

i summoned for godskin duo and we had an *absolute blast*. tag teamed effectively, just about saving each other in the nick of time, both getting right to the end of our health as we finally nailed the last one. was a lot of fun. lots of jumping around at the end.

Oh and i formally challenge all bad elden rings to a contest to see how slowly we can beat this game

Ha you are ON. I will see you back here in 2025.

― Stoop Crone (Trayce), Wednesday, April 6, 2022 9:22 AM

I would like to propose I might win this, because it is now 2024 and I am still yet to get a game any further than Farum Azula.

(I haven't gotten to Farum Azula lol)

You can do it! Someday!

I just got done with Faram Azula myself. Learned Maliketh a bit better this time, got insanely lucky with this phase 2 after a few cumulative hours of practice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B1OXDU-Z-Y

I'm on NG+2 and hoping it's not bad form to use this to play the DLC...

Nah, it just means the DLC will be that much harder!

Man... even two or whatever years after this game was released I can't get over what an amazing piece of work it is. It's literally my favourite thing thst isn't a living thing

I was hoping for a beautiful no-hit dance where I learned to dodge every attack, but this was as close as I came for Godfrey:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUunE7zX6zI

Incredible boss, I appreciated it much more this time. Only the final fight left for this pre-dlc playthrough, which I'm not as excited about but I do kind of want that hammer.

What hammer?

This hammer: https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Marika's+Hammer

Ohhh right. I did so much trading that I forgot even which remembrance birthed which weapon

Preordered the DLC! ELDEN RING!

I have a bit of homework to do now though, namely beating Mohg in this current run-through

I bought the DLC PC edition as I have a steam deck and a better graphics card than when I bought it on ps5.

I suck at it again now (I think I was at Altus plateau in my ps5 playthrough but I barely remember) . When yous are doing subsequent playthroughs do you generally cut to running through the main quest/legacy dungeons more quickly and use better knowledge of the game to compensate for relative lack of levelled up stats? I don't want to redo every Limgrave side dungeon just to grind numbers but I died to fuckin Margit last night

Also what is your favourite early game dex weapon

Hah, I'm in exactly the same boat - booted it up last night to try and refamiliarise myself and I SUCK!
I've gotten so used to playing Dark Souls I/II and they play fairly differently - especially as I seem to have specced myself a pure Intelligence build on this one, and I'm used to rolling with a tanky strength build on those other games.
Also hve just got to Altus Plateau and not sure what I'm doing with myself - it's one of these literal crossroads in the game where I'm not sure what to do next: Do I go to Mt Gelmir and Magma Mansion? Do I walk right on up to Leyndell? Or do I go to that poison swamp in the North? Oh god, that place is horrible!
I'm pretty sure I've done all the underground Ranni/Fia mucker-aboutery, so that's fine.
Like Sgt. Biscuits, I'm not sure whether I should be doing all these catacombs and side dungeons or not. Currently, I'm more interested in doing a few NPC quests (Sellen, Nepheli Loux) and ultimately beating Mohg so I'm ready for the DLC. But I feel like I'm doing myself a disservice if I skip these things.
I've opted to putting a skull on any evergaol or side dungeon I haven't completed, just in case I want to come back to it. It's also useful to check on Fextralife to see what's in a catacomb before attempting it.

I think one of the things I need to do is re-spec soon. My impression of this game is that it encourages you to start with Int magic and swap over to Faith later on. I'm not at that stage of the game, but I'm so used to melee combat since playing the Dark Souls games, I'm wondering what sort of build I should go for. Especially considering you do need an element of ranged attacks in ER.

My favorite early game dex weapon is the uchi for sure, it feels as good as it did in DS1. I was intrigued by the great epee but didn't use it this time around, same for the twinblade. Everyone uses the Bloodhound's Fang, of course (which is why I never really did).

I definitely skipped whatever I felt like skipping on my second playthrough, although now I'm going back to the caves and dungeons that I missed. Your stats will get levelled up regardless (it did help to do southern Limgrave rather than going right to Stormveil though).

My impression of this game is that it encourages you to start with Int magic and swap over to Faith later on.

Oh really, why is that? My impression is that it encourages you to incorporate a secondary stat later on, whatever you're using (because it offers more boss & unique weapons that require investment in multiple stats to use). I stubbornly went without a ranged attack this time, but now that I'm done with the game (lol) I'm going to experiment with more miracles.

Speaking of which I got just good & lucky enough to beat the Elden Beast again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHrzCeQw_3A

Well, speaking in terms of magic builds - you're almost definitely going to do Liurnia before Leyndell, so you'll encounter a lot more sorcery magic earlier on. Then once you hit mid-game Faith feels vastly OP

that's some good playing, Jordan. What weapon are you using there?

Coming back to ER, it's mindboggling how many weapons and different build combinations there are. I'm going to have to look up a few good ones before I re-spec. I think on my first full playthrough, I was some sort of beast cleric, which was cool

I like how, unlike a few of the other Souls games, Elden Beast is significantly tough to beat. I mean, Lord Gwyn and King Allant weren't easy-peasy per se, but they were abetted by long run-back and not that tough. I don't know what the end bosses are like for Bloodborne, Sekiro and the other DS's though.

This might help people

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E7R0spaeQw

I can’t tell. Kalimeet was the hardest boss I’ve ever fought. Until I got to Laurence/Maria. Then Friede/Midir were the hardest. Then Malenia/Elden Beast.

I replayed DS1 and DS3 and BB after Elden Ring and the bosses seemed simple, quaint. Weird to think I could now handily do a no-hit on Kalimeet just by glowing up in the later games

oh Kalimeet is impossible. I gave up

He’s actually pretty easy if you’re not hyperfocused on getting tail hits in on him

Oh that makes sense DL, almost forgot about Liurnia being magic-land (can't speak to faith vs int in the late game though).

that's some good playing, Jordan. What weapon are you using there?

Thanks! It's the dragon halberd, which has a pretty vicious true combo in pvp. The weapon art gives it lightning & frost temporarily. And I've been liking the double halberd build mostly for the running L1, which hits twice in succession (great for roll catches) and the more powerful jump attack.

Kalameet and especially Manus seemed soooo hard on my first Dark Souls playthrough. But after fighting Midir in DS3, I couldn't believe how easy Kalameet felt when I played DS remastered. :)

I do like that Elden Beast seems designed to not go down too quickly, even for people using multiple summons and crazy spells. Honestly Radagon seems built for parties of three as well - I tried to help some people beat him, and all of a sudden his phase 2 teleports made sense and looked super cinematic. He's blinking around and changing targets, so you can never be too confident that his attention is elsewhere while you're hitting him in the back. In single player mode, it feels a little much when he's blinking out and reappearing in the same spot with a new attack, it makes the timing almost impossible to anticipate.

Bloodborne = there's also a two part boss fight (humanoid + giant beast), but it's much easier. The second part isn't bad, and if you die I don't think you have to do the first part over again?

Sekiro = also similar to ER, in that the final fight is two bosses that you have to beat every time. But the first boss is much easier than Radagon, imo.

DS3 = just one boss that incorporates the moves of most bosses in DS3 and some of DS1, not too hard as these things go.

More than the other games, Elden Ring’s auxiliary challenges were far, far harder, ime. Crucible Knights? Deathbirds? Runebears? Albinauric archers? Terrifying!

I enjoyed fighting the bog-standard “knights” (from Stormveil all the way to Haligtree) so much that even after close to 1000 hours I still enjoyed poking at them with some new combination of weapons

So true, I noped out on the archers riding wolves in the snowfield, the crucible knight in Faram Azula, and a bunch of dragons.

Btw, there is indeed going to be a brand new system so that people who are obscenely overlevelled can opt to keep the dlc difficult: https://www.reddit.com/r/fromsoftware/comments/1awokya/about_elden_ring_dlc_difficulty/

Is there any reason to get this DLC if you are a beginner? My impression is that Fromsoft DLCs are mostly for advanced players.

You would want to play the main game till the end at least once I can imagine - if only to get the most out of the story and context if that appeals to you (and why not?)

You will need to at least have got as far as bearing Radahn and Mohg to access the DLC anyway. You can technically speed run your way to those, but you'd be missing out on a lot

Ummm, did you finish the main game? If not, I would try and do that first...if you can get through most of the late game using whatever methods work (summons, spirits, magic) and have fun, and you want more Elden Ring, then go for it. If you're not enjoying it or it doesn't seem like your type of game, then the dlc probably won't change your mind. They're usually as hard or harder than the late game, but Elden Ring also accommodates so many different approaches and it doesn't seem like that will change in the dlc.

xp

I hit a skill wall way before that unfortunately. I'll try to pick it up again sometime when I have more free time.

Man... even two or whatever years after this game was released I can't get over what an amazing piece of work it is. It's literally my favourite thing thst isn't a living thing

Yup - still lounging through NG+2 and the game is practically a meditative and psychically restorative experience now.

More than the other games, Elden Ring’s auxiliary challenges were far, far harder, ime. Crucible Knights? Deathbirds? Runebears? Albinauric archers? Terrifying!

Also feeling this - my biggest challenge in NG+2 so far was killing that damn death bird in Caelid to get Death's Poker.

Despite covering a ton of ground in my first two playthroughs there's a bunch of stuff I missed still, either by accident or it being too challenging. I missed an entire town and NPC questline (Jarburg and Jar Bairn), multiple caves, a merchant, and an entire mini dungeon and boss (Twin Abductor Virgins after getting warped to Volcano Manor from the Abductor Virgin at the bottom of Raya Lucaria). I'm sure there's probably some more shit I'm missing too. Insanity!

I mean - I've yet to kill a single Bell Bearing Hunter too.

I really meant to do Jarburg this time, but failed again. :( I'm awful about going back and doing NPC quests. Also don't think I did any Bell Bearing Hunters. Imagine being the type of player that From seems to imagine, who goes back through the entire world every so often, at nighttime no less!

Yes! The Bell Bearing Hunters. The first one I encountered murdered me a hundred times before I gave up

Btw are y'all craftin'? I didn't craft a single thing on this playthrough.

I did not, ever, in my main play through, except to make some sleepy things to cheese a tricky Runebear. When I started duelling tho, I got kitted out with lots of everything; you don't need to, but it's nice to have the same buffing options as your opponent

I mostly craft arrows, golden pickled fowl feet, bewitching branches, sleep pots and other odds and ends. The bewitching branches and sleep pots are really handy for certain enemies and bosses.

Pro tip for rune farming, use the golden scarab talisman (you can get it in a cave in Caelid) and eat a golden pickled fowl foot before waylaying into the albinaurics near the Moghwyn Palace. They stack and bump the runes you get by at least 50% and the status effect of the foot won't clear if you sit at a site of grace, so it then becomes a race to see how many you can kill in 2 minutes (Sacred Relic Sword helps a lot here).

NG+ and above it's easily 100,000 runes each cycle, and you can probably sneak in 4-5 rounds if you're fast enough before the foot's effects end, so like almost a half million runes in a matter of minutes.