well, eight minutes, i guess. time flies.
― alpine static, Tuesday, 15 June 2021 19:39 (two years ago) link
You only got eight minutes to save the world!
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 15 June 2021 19:40 (two years ago) link
lol no worries, I usually regret posting on this thread too
― trap door to hell opens underneath (rob), Tuesday, 15 June 2021 19:43 (two years ago) link
obviously i am avoiding work. please carry on.
actually, while i've stupidly raised my hand, i'll suggest that maybe it's time for a "part two" P4k is dumb thread. this one is unwieldy.
― alpine static, Tuesday, 15 June 2021 19:46 (two years ago) link
i think you guys are giving this more 'naif' than it deserves. its a big talking pt on leftist podcast irony twitter that music writers are overhyping pop music or whatever. these are ppl who spend all day tweeting about sopranos. this is not an original thought or empirical observation, it's cool kid social climber bullshit from ppl who orbit Red Scare.
― bruce spr!ngisH3r3 on broadway (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 15 June 2021 19:53 (two years ago) link
chris they're not gonna be friends with you just bc you adopt all their positions opinions and internet debate aesthetics
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Tuesday, 15 June 2021 19:53 (two years ago) link
I disagree deeply on their opinions about the Alamo Drafthouse and Hamilton but agree that the Sopranos is good
― bruce spr!ngisH3r3 on broadway (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 15 June 2021 19:56 (two years ago) link
For example, though, P4k didn't even *review* Azana's record from last year. That's insane to me!
it would be certainly be really cool if they had but non-western stuff that isn't getting an active push in the western music press from their label or agent or whatever still seems to very much be a non-starter, but also obviously not very many writers are pitching p4k reviews of that sort of stuff either. not really much to do with poptimism one way or the other
― ufo, Tuesday, 15 June 2021 20:19 (two years ago) link
They haven’t reviewed the new Sufjan Stevens, Animal Collective or Tune-Yards, all of which is really hilarious to anyone who lived through the Carles Age
― bruce spr!ngisH3r3 on broadway (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 15 June 2021 20:25 (two years ago) link
wow yeah that's a legit sea change. Kind of odd that this week alone they reviewed Garbage and Sleater-Kinney
― trap door to hell opens underneath (rob), Tuesday, 15 June 2021 20:27 (two years ago) link
I did specify that that was my opinion and that all it demonstrated was that for any given listener, pop is not or should not be a monolith
― imago, Tuesday, 15 June 2021 20:31 (two years ago) link
imago genuinely have no idea who you're arguing with about that
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Tuesday, 15 June 2021 20:32 (two years ago) link
I'm arguing with the person who made the initial tweet
― imago, Tuesday, 15 June 2021 20:33 (two years ago) link
oh i'd completely forgotten animal collective even put out a soundtrack this year
that tune-yards album was great though
no wolf alice review yet either which also seems strange
― ufo, Tuesday, 15 June 2021 20:33 (two years ago) link
Aware we've all pointed out how fatuous the statement is by now though
― imago, Tuesday, 15 June 2021 20:34 (two years ago) link
has anyone considered the broad popularity of Mark Fisher in the Chapo-verse when it comes to this stuff? I remember him arguing with Tim F and Simon about this stuff on Dissensus at the time, and I kind of feel like "the [podcast] left'"s perception of these arguments is shaped a lot by him becoming this broad lodestar for this conversation. Simon was even on an episode of Red Scare talking about Mark
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Tuesday, 15 June 2021 20:35 (two years ago) link
no, I have not considered the broad popularity of Mark Fisher in the Chapo-verse
― 80's hair metal , and good praise music ! (DJP), Tuesday, 15 June 2021 20:36 (two years ago) link
is that before or after the Ant-Man sequel
― 80's hair metal , and good praise music ! (DJP), Tuesday, 15 June 2021 20:37 (two years ago) link
I was also trying to locate why Lorde in particular has pushed anti-poptimist buttons, fatuous or otherwise
― imago, Tuesday, 15 June 2021 20:37 (two years ago) link
Simon was even on an episode of Red Scare
lol that's embarrassing for him
― ufo, Tuesday, 15 June 2021 20:38 (two years ago) link
I mean there's kind of shit going on with conde nast
― like, I’m eating an elephant head (katherine), Tuesday, 15 June 2021 20:42 (two years ago) link
I would not necessarily draw any conclusions about Grand Musical Direction given that there are other variables
― like, I’m eating an elephant head (katherine), Tuesday, 15 June 2021 20:43 (two years ago) link
hyperbolic love of pop music & being corny about it are signs of being an earnest young person who is new to criticism, not signs of corporate strategy imo. there's some overlap there, but the objections are aesthetic pretending to be ideological, imo
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Tuesday, 15 June 2021 20:46 (two years ago) link
hyperbolic love of pop music & being corny about it are signs of being an earnest young person who is new to criticism
Then what's ILM's excuse?
― but also fuck you (unperson), Tuesday, 15 June 2021 20:48 (two years ago) link
name names
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Tuesday, 15 June 2021 20:49 (two years ago) link
Yeah, P4k’s slide to the Bieberverse is probably just a general shifting taste of young critics + now having someone to answer to wrt traffic goals + the fact that there’s like ~zero other places that do dedicated longform reviews so why tf not. It’s not as sexy as a viral tweet or CONDE CONSPIRACY but what can you do
― bruce spr!ngisH3r3 on broadway (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 15 June 2021 20:50 (two years ago) link
"Underneath the ill-advised MLK quotes, you’ll find an earnest pop album that unearths the charisma and agility that helped make Bieber a star."
― the mai tai quinn (voodoo chili), Tuesday, 15 June 2021 20:52 (two years ago) link
If you guys are curious to dig into what I'm talking about, I genuinely think the origins of the terms of this conflict can be found in this thread. See arguments from Mark K Punk, Simon, and Tim F, Woebot, others: https://www.dissensus.com/index.php?threads/1143/
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Tuesday, 15 June 2021 20:52 (two years ago) link
― the mai tai quinn (voodoo chili), Tuesday, June 15, 2021 3:52 PM (eighteen seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink
7.2 ... so hyperbolic
thank you for pointing me towards this review because it is hilarious
Bieber is not a powerhouse vocalist, but he is a compelling one, casually dropping in a stray yodel here, a Mariah Carey-indebted set of runs there. His voice has a palatable smoothness; he’s mastered push-and-pull dynamics, and he swings effortlessly from a placid chest voice to a zephyr of a falsetto. That litheness and control are on full display across Justice. Even when the songwriting is spiritless and the production rote—and it occasionally is, as on the confessional “Unstable” and the saccharine “Deserve You”—he still sings the hell out of it.
his voice ranges from placid to wispy, I cannot argue with this
― 80's hair metal , and good praise music ! (DJP), Tuesday, 15 June 2021 20:58 (two years ago) link
"casually dropping in a stray yodel here" is also killing me, like does he just go full Lonely Goatherd in the middle of a slow jam
― 80's hair metal , and good praise music ! (DJP), Tuesday, 15 June 2021 21:00 (two years ago) link
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Tuesday, June 15, 2021 3:52 PM (six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
oh i wasn't commenting on the rating, i just thought that quote was funny
― the mai tai quinn (voodoo chili), Tuesday, 15 June 2021 21:00 (two years ago) link
but isn't it true the writers don't determine the actual score
kidding, kidding
― Paul Ponzi, Tuesday, 15 June 2021 21:01 (two years ago) link
completely otm
there's obviously a difference between a message board & actual published music criticism
― ufo, Tuesday, 15 June 2021 21:03 (two years ago) link
that's right, ilm's where all the money's at
#paymentforposts
― Karl Malone, Tuesday, 15 June 2021 21:07 (two years ago) link
like just personally I find the conspiracy theorizing very fucking weird since I started writing for them in 2012, I had almost entirely written about pop music, and that was pre-conde
― like, I’m eating an elephant head (katherine), Tuesday, 15 June 2021 21:07 (two years ago) link
i think the other thing that rankles about the original tweet is that pure poptimist pop is really at a low ebb commercially right now... olivia rodrigo & doja cat are basically the only two breakout pop stars of the last year and a half, and pitchfork barely covers them, at least from a critical POV. what's driving authentic rock music down and off the review pages is moneybagg yo, lil durk, lil baby, rod wave, polo g etc ... not exactly rich white girls on pills. and of course, pitchfork is actually ambivalent about much of that music as well despite its immense power in the marketplace, while on a daily basis putting its critical weight behind tons of underground rap music that is more artistically pure than the above artists and which would never get any coverage elsewhere. pitchfork was the first/only critical outlet to write about i.e. capella grey "gyalis" which is a great independent song w/ a localized fan base, but of course red scare hangers on have no idea what that song is. so really what you have is culturally out of touch ppl RTing themselves to explain why they don't ideologically align w/ a culture that they don't, in reality, understand
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 15 June 2021 21:07 (two years ago) link
xp -- to be fair I think what people are reacting to are year end lists which do tend to skew more pop. like someone posted a screenshot of the WAP writeup
― like, I’m eating an elephant head (katherine), Tuesday, 15 June 2021 21:11 (two years ago) link
this is the problem ofc ... people think if you're criticizing The Bad Tweet you're defending Pitchfork
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Tuesday, 15 June 2021 21:16 (two years ago) link
xps eh dua lipa has been a huge success lately both commercially & critically (though of course p4k hasn't been that on board) but i get the broader point
but yeah the problem is the twitter op etc. don't understand shit at all on top of the lazy purely reactionary rockism
― ufo, Tuesday, 15 June 2021 21:18 (two years ago) link
this latest poptimism fuss having started from Red Scare should be deeply embarrassing for us all
― self-clowning oven (Murgatroid), Tuesday, 15 June 2021 21:19 (two years ago) link
xpost - re: Dua Lipa, most artists would kill to be ignored like this
https://pitchfork.com/search/?query=dua%20lipa
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 15 June 2021 21:20 (two years ago) link
It’s hilarious to think of some nerd Walkman fan triggered by the Pitchfork tweet and visits the site for the first time in 8 years and then trying to figure this out https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/rxk-nephew-slitherman-activated/
― bruce spr!ngisH3r3 on broadway (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 15 June 2021 21:22 (two years ago) link
xp p4k covers any pop star these days that has any sort of 'cred' at all
what i meant is they were cooler on the album than a lot of places, didn't give it the fabled bnm etc. when it was quite a critical darling elsewhere
― ufo, Tuesday, 15 June 2021 21:24 (two years ago) link
It’s hilarious to think of some nerd Walkman fan triggered by the Pitchfork tweet and visits the site for the first time in 8 years and then trying to figure this out
https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/rxk-nephew-slitherman-activated/
― bruce spr!ngisH3r3 on broadway (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, June 15, 2021 4:22 PM (five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
i mean, its a pan, and ian cohen likes it ... not too different from cam'ron era really
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Tuesday, 15 June 2021 21:28 (two years ago) link
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, June 15, 2021 4:20 PM (seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
She had one of the biggest albums in the world and it wasn't reviewed, though they did review the follow-up and its pfork-baiting project of club remixes with like, theo parrish on it. She had some stuff on year end lists bc some hits are always on year end lists. pretty modest treatment again imo
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Tuesday, 15 June 2021 21:29 (two years ago) link
not defending pitchfork -- just arguing that these broad characterizations of its pop coverage are misleading
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Tuesday, 15 June 2021 21:30 (two years ago) link
she could've gotten a review if only she'd included some ill-advised mlk quotes
― the mai tai quinn (voodoo chili), Tuesday, 15 June 2021 21:30 (two years ago) link
well, pitchfork covers pop stars heavily when it comes to news bcuz news is what drives traffic on a daily basis and you can't employ 50+ ppl at living wages by posting updates on indie rock music. simply put, it's not feasible. the incentive structure as it pertains to that part of the site is pretty clear and unavoidable. but is that what bothers ppl? the news coverage? maybe it is idk. bcuz as many ppl have pointed out on a critical level what the site gets behind has, if anything, retreated further back towards indie rock, outsider type music and away from poptimism
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 15 June 2021 21:32 (two years ago) link
variables:
a) as mentioned there is an impending conde nast strike b) there just was a global pandemic that shut down the global economyc) stan backlash has gotten a lot worse than it was in 2015 so writers may be more hesitant to jump on big pop albums, many writers (who aren't me) have explicitly said this was a factor in declining to write about certain pop albumsd) pop music has kind of diffused into 50 million tiktok kids who may not have "albums" to reviewe) did I mention there was a global pandemic
I really, really would not draw very many conclusions about editorial strategy from 2020-21
― like, I’m eating an elephant head (katherine), Tuesday, 15 June 2021 21:44 (two years ago) link