pitchfork is dumb (#34985859340293849494 in a series.)

literally no one is disputing that some pop music is bad, can we move on

I'm just saying, there's something so offputtingly empty and self-aggrandising about Lorde's music and it's triggering these often wild and silly responses, but it's doing so because a lot of people can sense the con if not quite put their finger on what it is

(and so they're throwing the pop baby out with the Lorde/Conde Nast bathwater)

i know there’s probably a large poptimist side of twitter i’m not on that these ppl are responding to but im always surprised by how rockist my feed is.

Ugh like half my Twitter feed is millennial music theorists on a crusade to rescue pop music from its dungeon in the ivory tower.

Popular pop too, not Charli XCX

Left at 12:42 14 Jun 21

"cuckholdry" is the most instructive part of the whole thing and also a signal to stop engaging

this is otm

isn't the definition of cuckoldry that you're not the one engaging

sorry

lol

that tweeter also uses the term NPC so maybe not engaging is their thing

that Charli XCX was horrid

re: simon, the "things are good because they're popular" straw man version of it isn't a view point anyone actually holds. the twitter OP said she'd never even heard the term poptimism before people brought it up in response to that tweet anyway. this is all just people who don't really pay much attention to any of this stuff going "lol there are some pretty goofy/embarrassing writing on pitchfork sometimes" and "isn't it weird pitchfork likes beyonce these days when they used to only like indie music" etc. and then ending up in weird conspiracist places

― ufo, Monday, June 14, 2021 12:23 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

i think you guys are giving this more 'naif' than it deserves. its a big talking pt on leftist podcast irony twitter that music writers are overhyping pop music or whatever. these are ppl who spend all day tweeting about sopranos. this is not an original thought or empirical observation, it's cool kid social climber bullshit from ppl who orbit Red Scare:

isn't op a huge R. Scare orbiter anyway... like you're worried about the wrong rich girls on pills

— ~~~ (@v_u_l_n_i) June 14, 2021

This is podcast runoff that is very popular because it coincides with generic lizard brain rockism thus all the replies complaining about manufactured music.

the fact that ppl on ilx of all places are being like 'maybe we're the ones who are wrong' lmao ... fuck yall ... i dont really consider myself a 'poptimist' but watching ppl here fold bc dirtbag twitter is extremely concerned w proving they like Adult art (mainly mafia movies) is just embarrassing. Chris has a soft spot for that shit so i get it but no

I don't see anyone folding? What are you talking about?

chapo-adjacent twitter has dogshit cultural opinions

oh yeah dirtbag podcast twitter totally sucks and doesn't even pretend to be left-wing really these days but i don't pay enough attention to it to have known that it's what was responsible for this latest idiocy

the basic tenet of 'poptimism' being 'pop music can be artistic worthwhile' etc. seems just trivially true to me but people love to twist it into all sorts of nonsensical other shit

its a big talking pt on leftist podcast irony twitter that music writers are overhyping pop music or whatever.

no way man--leftist podcasts are totally hip to music crit:

BONUS: The Sickle Drop@theneedledrop chats on our steam about Grimes' AI communist future, LDR's BLM track, Morrissey headlining Cruel World, Madball and Section H8 anti-lockdown shows, CxTxHxCx, Fiona Apple stan harassment, 1000Gecs, new music, &more! https://t.co/ltWp5oMjBd pic.twitter.com/dJZGXrvPp3

— ☭🕷️🐬The 📉 Antifada🐬🕷️☭ (@the_antifada) June 11, 2021

the basic tenet of 'poptimism' being 'pop music can be artistic worthwhile' etc. seems just trivially true to me but people love to twist it into all sorts of nonsensical other shit

― ufo, Tuesday, June 15, 2021 11:27 AM (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I also think this obviously true, I just don't hear it in a lot of the *current* artists that are most acclaimed, particularly around these parts and in the more mainstream narrative.

i mean tastes differ! there's plenty of even mainstream pop stuff that i think has been overhyped too but whatever really

p4k also still doesn't award bnm to that many big pop/r&b albums at all, even ones that are very well received generally elsewhere/by pop music nerds like on here etc. it's really not anywhere near as like aggressively pro-pop as all these reactionary idiots make it out to be but i think everyone here knows that

it does suck to see people who otherwise had seemed cool on twitter (& not even like particularly close to red scare etc. or anything) prove themselves to be total idiots about music by going all in on this shit lol though

Generally speaking, anyone who spends most of their time in the public eye talking about politics is guaranteed to have dogshit opinions about culture. Doesn't matter whether they're on the "left" or on the "right"; it's some kind of law of the universe that being an internet politics person breaks your brain and turns your taste into slurry.

xp
yeah especially since pitchfork/CN are currently trying to unionize while these podcast nihilists equate them with Raytheon or w/e. I actually wished Whiney had been right about the reading of "popular"; going full Adorno would at least be kind of amusing in 2021

I can sympathize with table's take to an extent. I had once assumed poptimism would lead to a wider embrace of global sounds. That's happened a bit (over the decades: bollywood, dancehall, kpop), but super unevenly and the essential parochial core outlook remains

For example, though, P4k didn't even *review* Azana's record from last year. That's insane to me!

just fyi, that's on you

99.8% of the planet / P4k audience has never heard that name. why would they review it? because you think it's great?

honestly, this whole discussion - here, on twitter, etc. - comes down to people believing their opinions are facts, imo

"treating all pop music as equal"

all pop music *is* equal until it hits someone's ears/brain/etc.

expecting a website to cover Charli XCX because she is clearly good and not Lorde because she is clearly bad is, like, broken from reality, man

Charli XCX is not clearly good and Lorde is not clearly bad, is what i'm saying.

i don't know why i am posting

or why i let people who act like what they believe is gospel bother me

are you responding to anyone other than imago here?

started out as table and then evolved into imago. 3 minutes later i am filled w/ regret

well, eight minutes, i guess. time flies.

You only got eight minutes to save the world!

lol no worries, I usually regret posting on this thread too

obviously i am avoiding work. please carry on.

actually, while i've stupidly raised my hand, i'll suggest that maybe it's time for a "part two" P4k is dumb thread. this one is unwieldy.

i think you guys are giving this more 'naif' than it deserves. its a big talking pt on leftist podcast irony twitter that music writers are overhyping pop music or whatever. these are ppl who spend all day tweeting about sopranos. this is not an original thought or empirical observation, it's cool kid social climber bullshit from ppl who orbit Red Scare.

chris they're not gonna be friends with you just bc you adopt all their positions opinions and internet debate aesthetics

I disagree deeply on their opinions about the Alamo Drafthouse and Hamilton but agree that the Sopranos is good

For example, though, P4k didn't even *review* Azana's record from last year. That's insane to me!

it would be certainly be really cool if they had but non-western stuff that isn't getting an active push in the western music press from their label or agent or whatever still seems to very much be a non-starter, but also obviously not very many writers are pitching p4k reviews of that sort of stuff either. not really much to do with poptimism one way or the other

They haven’t reviewed the new Sufjan Stevens, Animal Collective or Tune-Yards, all of which is really hilarious to anyone who lived through the Carles Age

wow yeah that's a legit sea change. Kind of odd that this week alone they reviewed Garbage and Sleater-Kinney

I did specify that that was my opinion and that all it demonstrated was that for any given listener, pop is not or should not be a monolith

imago genuinely have no idea who you're arguing with about that

I'm arguing with the person who made the initial tweet

oh i'd completely forgotten animal collective even put out a soundtrack this year

that tune-yards album was great though

no wolf alice review yet either which also seems strange

Aware we've all pointed out how fatuous the statement is by now though

has anyone considered the broad popularity of Mark Fisher in the Chapo-verse when it comes to this stuff? I remember him arguing with Tim F and Simon about this stuff on Dissensus at the time, and I kind of feel like "the [podcast] left'"s perception of these arguments is shaped a lot by him becoming this broad lodestar for this conversation. Simon was even on an episode of Red Scare talking about Mark

no, I have not considered the broad popularity of Mark Fisher in the Chapo-verse

is that before or after the Ant-Man sequel

I was also trying to locate why Lorde in particular has pushed anti-poptimist buttons, fatuous or otherwise

Simon was even on an episode of Red Scare

lol that's embarrassing for him

I mean there's kind of shit going on with conde nast