ILX Parenting 6: "Put Some Goddamn Pants On Before You Go Outside!" is a thing I say now

I guess this is just sort of a parenting win post - I feel like I have done a lot of things wrong as a parent, but one thing I have done consistently is to emphasize that you can get better at anything with consistent practice, that you should never say "I'm bat at ___" only "I can improve at ___" etc., and that determination goes a long way.

My older one, K, was delayed physically - not severely but enough that she got physical therapy and occupational therapy. I knew from my own childhood that physical delays can really hurt self-esteem so I made an extra point of emphasizing practice with her, knowing it might take her a little more practice than some kids to get things down. Early on I saw that it was getting through to her - she would do monkey bars over and over again every day at the playground, first maybe only one or two rungs, then three, then four, eventually all the way, even if other kids might pick it up faster. I emphasized not giving up. This was something I learned myself later in life - that I could overcome a lot of what I had once thought were innate physical problems with a little extra work. For example, while I never played organized basketball, as an adult I started practicing regularly and took a course, and actually started to hold my own in pickup games.

This year (she's 9) a neighbor invited K to join a CYO basketball team, her first team sport ever (and she doesn't even have much experience in basketball). She wanted to do it, so I said ok (CYO is more competitive vs our local rec league, so I was a little nervous for her). She is tall for her age, fwiw. First couple of practices and games were tough for her - any kid with as little experience as her would be confused on the court and she tends to be even slower to process than some kids. I was concerned she would get discouraged, and I didn't want to pressure her, but I did my best to keep emphasizing the message of "Just keep practicing, you will get better, you will get used to it," etc. I told her she had to finish the season because she committed, but that after that she could decide if she wanted to continue.

Third game yesterday, and the team, advertised as being their age, looked about two grades older. In spite of this, K got her first rebound and took her first shot in game!She told me on the way home that she really loved the game and really wants to continue with CYO and doesn't want to do rec league. On top of that, the coach told me she has a great shooting touch and he has "no doubt" she will be a big contributor once she gets used to playing and the game slows down for her. I'm trying really hard to walk that line of not becoming "one of those youth sports dads" but it was the most exciting basketball game I've ever watched in my life.

man alive that is an awesome story! Congratulations on your message getting through and paying dividends. I also have a 9-year-old daughter who isn't necessarily a natural athlete, and I hope I can follow your example as she hopefully explores team sports in the years to come (she wanted to play softball this year but we couldn't make it work with COVID and school schedule and such).

Great stuff, if there's one thing I'd like my kids to learn it's that. Well maybe that and don't be a dickhead.

That's really great. A good reminder for me as a not particularly active person, and to instill in my kids too. It's great with kids to see them improving before your eyes, or even when it doesn't look like they are, something clicks!

I bought my son a drum set last summer. Just some cheap $200 generic thing that was sitting in one of his friend's basements. We cleared a spot for it and...then it just sat there. He said that he was practicing when we weren't home, but I didn't really believe him because it's the pandemic and somebody was home most of the time. Bought him a new hi-hat and stand for it last xmas, as well as new tom heads. He put it all together, but again, I never saw evidence that he was practicing on it at all.

Anyway, finally in the past week he has brought a friend into our house (which he NEVER does because he is too embarrassed of us) and they are trying to figure out drum stuff together. It's nice.

We went to my wife’s grandfather’s graveside service last weekend, first death related thing where the 6.5yo will understand things for the most part. While pulling into the cemetery we realized we had to explain that there would be a “minister” who will say things called “prayers” and probably mention “Jesus” but not use it as an expletive. He was fascinated by everyone saying the Lords Prayer together and wondered how everyone knew the words (except people like me who grew up nominally catholic and don’t know the last part).

My 10-year-old daughter had a younger friend whose family moved away last year. I think he's maybe 8 at this point, but also acts even younger sometimes due to what I think are developmental problems of some sort. In the months before the family moved, my daughter had a bit of a falling-out with him and then the quarantine happened. They played together again once during the week before he left the state, and had a decent time, but she has grown apart from him.

He has called a few times since then, and while she has taken a couple of his calls, the past few times he has tried to get in touch, she has not had any interest in talking to him. And I'm fine with that. I have told him that she is busy and that I needed to keep my phone clear. But I think I might need to put a stop to him trying to call her. I think I just need to ring his mother (whose phone he uses to call) and have her talk to him about it.

Anyone else have any ideas?

I am one of you now! My daughter was born June 23rd; she is amazing; I am v tired!

Congrats!

whooooooo

congrats horseshoe!

congrats to you...you will barely even remember the way life was a month ago :)

Congratulations!

omg yes!!

now you will have more time to post on ilx :)

Massive congratulations!

Yay!

babby is formed

Hooray and congrats! Please reach out if you need any entirely useless advice that is based on my flawed perception that I know what works generally with children and haven't just had random luck based on my own kids.

thanks, guys! we’re sort of struggling with feeding right now. Baby was slow to gain weight, but we had a good gain at the pediatrician’s today. I am *anxious* about my milk supply and her ability to transfer it. right now we’re supplementing with formula…part of me wants a voice from the heavens to tell me it’s okay to stop trying with breastfeeding, but I’m going to see how it goes up until she hits six weeks and reevaluate. if anyone had similar experiences, i’d love to hear how it went. (if people can even remember the first six weeks!)

Congratulations, welcome to the gang! I remember with breastfeeding at the start that it was a case of little and often. Babbies’ stomachs are the size of a golf ball so you’re not going to get tons in there. That’s why they wake up every couple of hours needing a refill, darn their tiny toes. It’s weird to begin with, not knowing how much breast milk you’re actually producing - your boobs don’t have a measure on the side like a bottle! But try not to freak out too much. Also, all babies lose weight in the couple of weeks after birth, so don’t worry too much about that either. Hahaha I’m saying don’t worry but if you’re anything like me you’ll worry about everything, forever and ever. I’m a total cheapskate so I was very happy to provide milk free of charge for my son, and the weight loss was a big bonus. The day I stopped breastfeeding it all went back on…

I will pass on the best bit of parenting advice I ever received: just do whatever works. I’d add to trust yourself to know what works (and whether it’s more important to have something that works in the short-term at the expense of the long-term). Enjoy it, good luck with the sleep deprivation, cuddle the heck out of that little thing while you can.

have you met with a good lactation consultant? i know that was incredibly helpful for my wife, someone who could physically observe latch position, etc, and help to adjust

we definitely had a similar situation with our older kid and had to supplement with formula, with the resultant unnecessary guilt. second kid was also on formula part-time because they were in day care during the day after they were two months old. you shouldn't feel bad about whatever you decide to do, as long as the baby is growing - this phase of their getting most of their nutrition from milk won't last long (relatively)

i think often the best lactation advice is just “it’s okay, everybody’s probably doing it right”

i think i have told the absurd story of our first night at home with our first kid and thinking that he wasn’t getting any milk because he kept crying and crying and we weren’t sure about “the latch” and it was a sunday night and raining and everything was closed and took a taxi back to the hospital to get some formula like a maniac and then realised i hadn’t brought any money so of course the cabbie drove off, leaving me there, so i literally RAN home with a box of formula in my hand like it was Marathon and the kingdom depended on my return and when i got back, dripping wet, everyone was asleep. the latch was fine, everything was fine.

Haha aw! Yes everything feels very desperate and high stakes right now; I keep having meltdowns and my husband keeps being very calm and helpful. (one recent meltdown: we arrived to the lactation consultant on time but couldn’t find the office immediately. I became catatonic at the thought that we’d lose our spot; he calmly texted the office until they’d directed us appropriately.)

Lactation consultant has been v nice and somewhat helpful, but it’s overwhelming how everyone in this process gives us different advice. Also our first weighted feed suggested baby was transferring milk fine, but the more recent two weighted feeds have been less successful. At least she gained weight in the past week, though; trying to just be happy about that and not feel like I have to have the whole breastfeeding thing sorted immediately.

lmao tracer

also the first time we went to the lactation consultant I was turned off by 1) anti medical bias in her comments about pediatricians and hospitals (baby was born in a hospital and I was pleased with the care I received) 2) intern who interviewed me being a white girl with dreads. i am incredibly not a hippie and probably have a pro medical bias, but I’m trying not to hold that against the lactation people.

we tried to have #1 at a midwife-led birthing center so got that attitude from both directions. when we transferred to a hospital during labor the nurses and doctors there treated us like we were raw milk drinkers, and when we discussed our vaccination plan (viz. "get vaccinations") during a post-delivery debrief the midwives acted like were were monsters.

IIRC (it was 4 years ago, i hadn't sleep for a week at the time, and ironically haven't slept for a week this week), we saw several lactation consultants (things were fine, they just kept making us see them). baby was in the NICU so the ones we saw were extremely "medical-aligned" (in that they were affiliated with the hospital and at least one was a NICU specialist)? i wouldn't go as far as to say we liked them, but they gave good advice AFAICT. could you see a lactation consultant affiliated with the hospical you delivered at?

I liked the lactation consultants at the hospital we delivered at, but they’re only available for phone consultations right now because of COVID. also, they did give us different advice than the nurses in the hospital, who gave us different advice than baby’s pediatrician. And the lactation consultants we’re seeing now are giving us a fourth set of advice. I really like baby’s pediatrician and will see her in two weeks for a weight check, so if the supply/transfer stuff hasn’t improved I’m going to tell her and do whatever she suggests. Also, good lord @this: “when we discussed our vaccination plan (viz. "get vaccinations") during a post-delivery debrief the midwives acted like were were monsters.” that is outrageous. i wish everyone could just chill the fuck out.

I was really worried about breastfeeding to start with. Such a responsibility! It hurt like hell too, which wasn't in the plan/what we'd been told in all the lovely dovely classes we'd been to. The "advice"/help from various hospital staff/midwives etc varied greatly but there was one great woman who took the time to show me the best way to latch. I was ready to give up but that helped and it went fine not long after that.
When #2 came along I was expecting to be a pro at it but nope, had to start from scratch again.
Whatever is going to work best for you as a duo/as a family is best. There is nothing to say you should keep trying if it's making you miserable. But on the other hand the convenience (and so much more) is totally worth it if it does start to work.

xp yoga, the alt right, and southern california is a hell of a drug

For our first kid my wife's milk never fully came through, but it's such a hard thing to measure (baby weighing is not an exact science and they naturally lose weight at the start anyway) there was definite scepticism in the free drop-in clinics we went to and we were encouraged not to top up with formula and just keep at it even when it was pretty clear that things weren't working out - i.e. feeding sessions would take literally hours, she didn't poo for days - our daughter that is :). After an extremely fraught week or so we decided that militant breast milk only advocates can basically die in a fire and decided to top up, which in some ways was a blessing in disguise as - apart from ensuring our daughter wasn't starving - I got to help out more including doing her bottle at bedtime, which meant I bonded much more quickly with her than I did with #2 who was exclusively breast fed.

In Beijing we had a woman come and massage my wife's breasts for an hour before the milk came, is this something that doesn't happen in the UK/US?

(Going to see this on the out of context thread aren't I?)

That is not a service we were ever aware of!

I supplementary fed both my daughters, it was a pretty cool time late at night and also allowed my wife some much needed sleep. The breast milk militants can go fuck themselves, obviously it's good food for babies, but shaming people who are already in despair is ugly and helps nobody, especially the babies.

Thirded on the BF militants. Like I said, Whatever Works is the absolute #1 rule.

I'm sure that I've written about it before on here, but just want to add this personal anecdote to the breast-feeding advice. My wife was trying to breast-feed our daughter and she was doing okay for a while with a few struggles. At some point, her doctor cleared her to go back on birth-control and in our frazzled new-parent brains, we didn't think anything of it. Immediately after she resumed birth control, her milk supply ceased and never returned. We had to switch to a full-formula diet after that. So just in case docs are still giving out that terrible piece of advice, don't listen!

formula is good. my daughter was 5lbs 1oz and stayed at the 1st percentile for weight until 3mos when we started supplementing with formula. she immediately got swole as fuck and has been around the 50th percentile for the last 3+ years.

Whatever Works is the motherfucking motto for sure

thanks, guys; it’s super-helpful to hear other people’s stories. My baby was v small at birth, too, which made feeding extra-hard for her, plus my supply is not overflowing, judging from pumping sessions. I am happy to supplement with formula, and have been for a little over a week on the advice of her pediatrician. The fact that it’s impossible to know how much she’s getting from the breast is driving me a little crazy; I hate the idea that she might be going hungry, but at least we have a plan. The lactation consultant isn’t thrilled we’re regularly supplementing with formula, but she’s not telling us to stop. She did want us to use a syringe thingy to supplement at the breast rather than bottles, but she was unable to get it to work in the office, so the chances that I’m going to figure it out on my own are nil, I’d say.

Scrolling to the bottom to be the voice from the heavens to say: formula is a god damn modern miracle and it is right and good to use it. You can use it to supplement your own milk production. You can use it because pumping is a punishment from the third circle of hell. You can use it because you don't fucking feel like breast feeding. Your tits, your baby, your choice.

And congratulations!!!! Baby Horseshoe!

I assume you named her Horseshoe?

Okay I've read and caught up.

1) anti medical bias in her comments about pediatricians and hospitals (baby was born in a hospital and I was pleased with the care I received) 2) intern who interviewed me being a white girl with dreads.

I'm not sure which is grosser.

My body was very bad at making and carrying a baby to term, but once we managed to get the baby out into the open air? It's like making milk was what I was born to do. The nurses at the NICU stopped accepting my milk deliveries because my tiny baby could not eat everything I was pumping, and they ran out of room in the fridge. But because my nips were like high pressure fire hoses and Ivy was a wee preemie, to avoid waterboarding her I had to use a nipple shield and damned if I didn't catch some shit for that from the militant breastfeeders. Like, I could shoot milk up her nose? Or I could feed her. WTF. Also I still supplemented with formula occasionally because sometimes I just didn't want to fucking deal with it all (and we didn't have room in our freezer for all the damn pumped milk either). And there was the whole "She's just using you as a pacifier" people, which always annoyed me because that's fine? I would like to comfort my child?

Anyway my only advice born of experience is that sleep training is probably a good idea at some point unless you don't mind having a seven year old who won't sleep without you and who I can only assume will still be sleeping with me until she goes to college.

Maybe if I hadn't used a nipple shield she would be happily sleeping in her own bed now.

My wife works in maternity and is a breastfeeding specialist and she is literally next to me saying 'ffs, do what works for you!' She struggled, particularly with our second baby, and still felt the pressure so it is hard to ignore the bullshit.

Congratulations on your baby!

thank you, carl! she’s a real beaut!

lol I can’t even believe anyone gets enough in the weeds of breastfeeding militancy to hate on nipple shields—like, why? it starts to just seem like control for the sake of control. Or unthinking rejection of anything that’s not “natural,” which, given the amount of scientific intervention we needed to even get pregnant in the first place, is kind of a non-starter to me. in general, the most intense evangelists for breastfeeding (which I understand the benefits of and would like to continue to do!) strike me as slightly out of touch with reality. my lactation consultant keeps telling me I shouldn’t be feeling any pain while breastfeeding, for example, and I just want to be like, well sorry I’m doing it wrong, but I am!

We do plan on sleep training her around 6 months, although I can already tell I’m going to be worthless at that task and my husband will have to be the stickler.

thanks, guys! we’re sort of struggling with feeding right now. Baby was slow to gain weight, but we had a good gain at the pediatrician’s today. I am *anxious* about my milk supply and her ability to transfer it. right now we’re supplementing with formula…part of me wants a voice from the heavens to tell me it’s okay to stop trying with breastfeeding, but I’m going to see how it goes up until she hits six weeks and reevaluate. if anyone had similar experiences, i’d love to hear how it went. (if people can even remember the first six weeks!)

― horseshoe, Monday, July 12, 2021 4:10 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

hi this is very similar to our experience (baby was born in march). she dropped too much weight after leaving the hospital, my wife was struggling with feeding, and we began supplementing with formula before switching to formula only at maybe 6 weeks. breastfeeding was making her miserable and adding a lot of stress and tiredness that just didn't see necessary for the supposed benefits. the switch was great tbh, we can regulate and track all her feeding and i can help out a lot more with feeding. we are still tired and stressed but generally speaking it's not because of feeding.

we did one LC appointment and i was really, really not a fan. i'm hesitant to say too much from my position as a dad but broadly i agree w/anti-medical bias and i think they take an oppositional position to pediatricians in part because if they didn't, it would be hard for them to justify their existence. (sorry to chinaski's wife and anyone else in this field lol)

Aw, congrats on your baby, cad!!! glad the switch to formula is making your family’s experience better!

I am willing to believe there are reasonable LCs out there, but the place I’m going is extremely woo woo and power of positive thinking-y, and it’s just a bad match for me.

congrats to you too btw! very happy for you.

my lactation consultant keeps telling me I shouldn’t be feeling any pain while breastfeeding, for example, and I just want to be like, well sorry I’m doing it wrong, but I am!

Oh, this has just reminded me that I had *intense* pain at the start of every feed for several weeks after birth. I kept hearing ‘if it hurts you’re doing it wrong’ from everyone but it turned out it was nothing to do with the latch, it was something to do with the let-down. I had to google it myself to find out, despite having on-ward BF specialists for the first six days (I was kept in with high blood pressure so they were on hand to get me started). Anyway, I would grit my teeth through the first couple of minutes until the pain went away, and then after month or so it didn’t hurt at all. Then there was no stopping us. Our son refused to take a bottle, despite us wasting £££ every single type of bottle on the market and that was a major pita for me, I can tell you.

The first thing I was going to write in my previous post was "everyone said 'if it hurts you're doing it wrong'" which is LIES, lies I tell you. The latch improved but yup it still hurt enough to nearly make me give up, both times. No-one mentioned nipple shields even once with my first when I was struggling, then mentioned while I was still in hospital with my second (with all the serious-face caveats of course) and they made ALL the difference.

Also, I tell everyone I can about D-MER because it's fascinating and also something no-one in any of my many breastfeeding classes/advice sessions etc ever ever mentioned (until I googled 'desperate depressed feeling when breastfeeding' - it's a really physical thing, let-down causes this very specific, fairly brief, but significant dysphoria)

I think one of the things I hated most about being a new parent is the sheer amount of bullshit, old wives' tales and general confused ideas etc that people happily feed each other over and over, and when you look into it it's unproven or just made up or really unhelpful (one of mine refused to breastfeed after about 10 months, and the amount of crap I heard about that made me really anxious).

I'd second advice to be 'consistent' with naps/sleep once you start getting into a regular nap schedule etc. Looking around at my friends there seems to be some correlation with that and having good bedtimes/sleep as a toddler/older child. But, it could be that they are just more resistant to attempts to regulate their sleep!

Babies' sleep changes so much in the first year that personally I don't think formal 'sleep training' before about 12 months would have been beneficial for us but we (well, spouse) did it with one of them around 13 months (I think there is even a thread on here?) and I've never looked back. Obviously depends on your own needs too e.g. going back to work.

I liked the lactation consultants at the hospital we delivered at, but they’re only available for phone consultations right now because of COVID. also, they did give us different advice than the nurses in the hospital, who gave us different advice than baby’s pediatrician. And the lactation consultants we’re seeing now are giving us a fourth set of advice.

just want to say this is really resonant as well. we were in the hospital for 5 days due to c-section and they had multiple lactation consultants roaming in and out, they were all nice but all said completely unrelated/contradictory things. the pediatrician who was on rotation toward the end of our stay was supremely unhelpful as well, suggesting a breast + formula by wire approach that we ignored because it was way too many moving parts for new parents + hungry newborn.

a couple weeks in we went to a different lactation consultant who suggested that our baby may need a tongue-tie procedure (which i'm extremely dubious of) while noting that pediatricians don't do that right now and we would need to go to a dentist or something. she also did a gotcha thing to me where she was like "show me how you hold the baby for feeding" and then told me all the things i was doing wrong, maybe this is personal but i loathe that style of instruction--i'm a rational adult, if you give me information i know what to do with it. in looking through her social and stuff i just found that in this case it was lactation consulting for well-off suburban moms for whom breastfeeding is a badge of honor/pride and that does not describe our family or what we're about.