Irish politics discussion thread

You think that he'll try for leader again at the next election??? Come on, it'll be Lucinda Creighton for sure!

i have never heard of all these FG'ers called Lucinda Creighton. enda gets another shot without a doubt.

Who knows, it's not like he did a bad job at all. They made the most gains after all and that can hardly have been in spite of him! LC is the young lady who is definitely being groomed as a Mary Harney. She is also orange.

Apologies for comments on five words thread, I'm done.

no bother.

Trevor Sargent has quit. Will the PDs keep going do you think?

Had v bitter conversation with friend last week about Labour. Appears there is great disillusionment within the ranks.

That hoor Gormley's now leader of the Greens. Why did I even bother :(

why, were you hoping that Patricia McKenna would get in and stamp out the scourge that is vaccination and water fluridation?

Some have said that the government might not have a majority in the Seanad after the elections next week. This could threaten the very foundations of the state.

Ha ha no... I'm just still very disappointed with the way things went. I don't think I would have voted Green had I known. Ach, of course I would! It's a pity though, I had hoped that they would be an alternative rather than just cosy up immediately! What's the story re. Seanad and collapse of Ireland as we know it?

when the two Houses are divided against each other, only civil war can be the result.

Ah FFS! At least I don't have a brother to be fighting against. Maybe an elder sister. Oh jesus, I'm dead in that case :(

I wonder who would win a Dáil v. Seanad Civil War? The Dáil is bigger, of course, but the Seanad would be able to mobilise NUI engineering graduates into squads of fedaykin death commandos.

Dail has better bar = more beserkers = higher kill rate = teh winnah!!11!

The Dáil and Seanad share the same bar.

Oh noes! I thought they were seperate because of the whole smoking in the pub thing! Hmmm. Well I suppose it could all be Gangs of New York face off on merrion row! Isn't Seanad full of old people? One kick to hip and down a beating they slip. Needs work but it's roughly okay...

I thought they were seperate because of the whole smoking in the pub thing!

I do not understand this line of reasoning.

That is because u r fule (also that whole TD smoking against the rules thing was reported as happening in the Dail bar). It is not important.

Not starting another thread for NAMA, but the figures are out:

NAMA will buy €77bn NBV of property loans for €54bn. Market value is not something anybody is talking about.

Anybody interested?

How are ye getting on at all at all?

could someone please tell me wtf is up with iris robinson? i realize this is northern ireland we're talking about rather than irelandireland, but i heard about this on the radio and i live in chicago. this is crazier than hiking the appalachian trail...

this is the best explanation of what i know so far, plus suicide attempt
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/8447383.stm

It's all a bit train-wreck.

I love a couple of things about all this.

1. Nornie politicians be as loving of backhanders from property developers as ours.

2. Isn't this the second financial scandal in the DUP? Didn't Ian Paisley retire partly because his idiot son was involved in some ethically dubious activity?

3. Gerry Adams must love that this is taking the heat of him regarding the child abuse allegations attaching themselves to his brother.

4. I also wonder whether SF still has fund-raising units involved in racketeering and whether these might suddenly spring back into the light.

5. Does the DUP have a shortage of politicians? Iris Robinson was until recently a local councillor, a MLA, and a MP, and Peter Robinson holds at least two of those roles. They also seem to be dominated by a handful of political families (witness their Deputy Leader's wife being their MEP). Do they not have anyone else?

6. It is always nice to see people who shite on about god's law being found out for breaking His commmandments.

7. what kind of 19 year old gets described as an "entrepreneur"?

8. and so on.

I imagine I can't tell you anything you don't already know, but here's one reason why people are so interested in this charming lady's family values slipping:

"I cannot think of anything more sickening than a child being abused. It is comparable to the act of homosexuality"
"There can be no viler act, apart from homosexuality and sodomy, than sexually abusing innocent children."

yeah, she's a mess. who voted for her? she's worse than blago, and that's no small statement.

the good folk of Strangford voted for her, by a pretty chunky margin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strangford_(UK_Parliament_constituency)#Election_results

Benjamin: "The more antagonistic a person is toward the traditional order, the more inexorably he will subject his private life to the norms that he wishes to elevate as legislators of a future society. It is as if these laws, nowhere yet realized, placed him under obligation to enact them in advance at least in the confines of his own existence. The man, on the other hand, who knows himself to be in accord with the most ancient heritage of his class or nation will sometimes bring his private life into ostentatious contrast to the maxims that he unrelentingly asserts in public, secretly approving his own behavior, without the slightest qualms, as the most conclusive proof of the unshakable authority of the principles he puts on display. Thus are distinguished the types of the anarcho-socialist and the conservative politician."

ok, so here's my question: are they just afraid of who else might rise to power if they don't vote for her (the daley model) or do they not care or did they trust her? does she appear otherwise dutiful and normal in her public appearances or is she a loose cannon type?

NI politics is a mess. None of my N. Irish friends vote because they don't feel there are any viable options for people who don't want to vote for any old nutjob along the lines of "usuns against themmuns".

There are some cross-community parties, but when I've asked if they wouldn't consider them either they're too small to get anywhere or it's "well they say they're neither this nor that but actually..." and so on. I don't know if it's true or not but there's just such ingrained suspicion/mistrust/contempt for the political system among everyone I know. Self-perpetuating, of course, but how can you break it?

I am not Northern Irish so don't really know enough to talk about this, sorry for wading in.

i am obviously not northern irish either, but this is interesting to me. people are disinclined to vote for so many reasons, and i guess i'm interested in the varying reasons people don't vote in other countries or, alternately, how such wretched people always wind up in "public service" and stay there forever.

I read a pretty interesting article once about how/why the more moderate parties on both sides had actually declined since the Good Friday agreement and the parties with previous militant associations picked up more votes, but I can't find it now. It makes sense in a way but it seems a shame that more strongly sectarian voting patterns should become even more entrenched at the same time as making such major progress.

(I do not know if the UUP are any less crazy than the DUP, but I feel bad for the SDLP losing ground)

(Confession: seeing as Northern Irish partner and his friends aren't interested in politics chat, I get most of it from the banter on the NI music scene forum, which I thought had been strangely silent on this issue until just there now when I realised the epic 19-page thread on the front page entitled "Iris / Adultery" was not in fact promoting a two-band bill of doomtastic post-metal sounds)

I am always a bit suspicious of supposedly moderate Nornies and their disdain for cross-community parties.

The Slugger O'Toole blog is meant to be good for people who are interested in politics Up There.

The GFA entrenched a system whereby to win votes you had to be from one or other community. It arguably then makes sense to compete on the basis of being the party best qualified to stick it to the other community.

Disdain for cross-community parties seems weird/frustrating to me too but if I'd grown up to be so suspicious of politicians' motives I'd probably feel it too.

Plus I am well aware that e.g. there are things I think I know about the Tories that can't be learnt from looking at their website, so if someone tells English old me that I don't know the full story about a NI party, I have to agree that I probably don't, and that the background renders misunderstandings potentially nastier over there.

I look at Slugger O'Toole occasionally and it's usually worth a read, if sometimes hard for an outsider to unpack, yes.

Did the wording of the GFA specifically entrench this system? I agree that it has become further entrenched since the GFA. (Genuine question, would like to read more about how it happened)

i couldn't really even think of participating in a conversation about this scandal on a political level, but on a personal level it's fascinating.

The GFA required parties in the NI Assembly to designate themselves as Nationalist or Unionist, and it requires the First Minister to be from the majority community and the Deputy First Minister to be from the minority, with both being elected on one slate that has to win in both communities.

I think when the DUP were against the Agreement they experimented with tactically declaring themselves Nationalists to cause trouble, but were blocked from doing this... am I remebering this right?

what kind of 19 year old gets described as an "entrepreneur"?

the kind that doesn't call himself a gigolo?

have we done the blasphemy law yet?

doctor doctor my eye hurts

there's something in your iris

dr dr my eye hurts

you've been crying excessively because you've discovered your wife is fucking the paperboy. And paid for it.

"There can be no viler act, apart from homosexuality and sodomy, than sexually abusing innocent children."

Oh, I hope there was sodomy involved with that guy.

Inquiry into the causes of the financial/banking crisis to take place behind closed doors.

Genuinely, is there anyone out there with experience in carrying out a political coup? Bloodless if possible, but the alternative will work also in a pinch.

According to the Irish Times at the moment Gormley is 200 votes ahead (so my vote worked!)

you are part of the problem

George Lee resigns from FG and Dáil Eireann

GET THEM OUT

feel a wee bit sorry for G. Lee... also feel like there's a bit of a messiah complex going on here.

Based on the initial public reaction it seems like this is pretty bad news for FG, which I'm totally fine with, so long as FF don't benefit...

inital public reaction is gonna change the more lee speaks. messiah complex is starting to look more and more appropriate- head of various economic policy task forces and committees, about to be offered a place on the front bench next week (and aware of this) but he quits complaining that he hasn't been able to dictate economic policy. to the opposition party he joined 9 months ago.

it's bad news for enda, certainly, but really if this is the extent of the guy's problems then he's a fucking idiot, has proven himself to be style over substance and has lost a lot of credibility for when he does crawl back to the job he stated publicly wouldn't be held for him last year before he was elected.

what odds a labour taoiseach?

inital public reaction is gonna change the more lee speaks.

probably right. his appearance on joe duffy had me squirming with embarrassment... jd was pressing him on what particular policies/principles had been rejected / ignored by FG, lee refused to be drawn which just makes no fucking sense to me. i do think he is a fucking idiot. kind of beautiful that he's still on leave of absence from RTE! maybe it was all an undercover thing for prime time...

don't know/care enough about FG's internal politics to guess at what this means for enda kenny as opposed to the wider party, but the party line seems steady for the moment, EK expressing presidential "regret" while Varadkar etc put the boot in.

a labour taoiseach eh? that would really be something. definitely seems like it's their time to shine. i'd personally like to see them stop courting coalition partners (so not gonna happen tho).

Ah no Lab needs FG. but even though they'll get in (please god they'll get in FFS) as a junior party in a coalition i can't see FG coming up with a Taoiseach. Enda will be gone before then, (though I'm really unsure who's placed to take over) and will be president before 2020.

never had much time for willie o'dea, but his comment on this was A+-

"George Lee was like FG's bidet- he gave them a touch of class but they didn't know what to do with him"

I very much doubt there will be a Labour Taoiseach unless they win more seats than FG, which is not very likely.

While it's a given that FG will have more seats, I'm not at all sure that they'll have a candidate for the top job. At the moment they're not sure that they even have a candidate for party leader to challenge the non-endaty