Yes, I got this on yr recommendation Ronan and you were spot on about it.
― stet, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 22:42 (twelve years ago) link
The title alone makes it sound incredible!
― Abbott, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 22:45 (twelve years ago) link
Ronan didn't want to talk about it enough to revisit the thread. i have a lovely looking copy of this. maybe i should read it.
― jed_, Thursday, 22 May 2008 23:43 (twelve years ago) link
i almost bought the one-volume of this in the new translation (i think) in a bookstore on charing cross this tuesday. but then i remembered that i had all three volumes of the old translation at my parents' house that i had bought when i was a teenager and still not got around to reading. all in different picador editions, bought on different trips to three different charity shops.
― thomp, Friday, 23 May 2008 08:01 (twelve years ago) link
Oh right that's a new translation - I saw it while browsing at Waterstone's in Charing X (on thrusday tho' :-)). The bk is too bulky and kinda ugly, and unfortunately its important for me to have nice looking compact editions of bks these days. Its why I've yet to read Gaddis' JR or Recognitions.
― xyzzzz__, Friday, 23 May 2008 20:49 (twelve years ago) link
I never saw this revive, I did want to talk about it.
I like the below part. It is how growing up has felt.
“When I remember as far back as I can, I’d say that there was hardly any separation between inside and outside. When I crawled towards something, it came on wings to meet me; when something important happened, the excitement was not just in us, but the things themselves came to a boil. I won’t claim that we were happier then than we were later on. After all, we hadn’t yet taken charge of ourselves.
In fact, we didn’t really yet exist; our physical condition was not yet separated from the world’s. It sounds strange, but it’s true: our feeling, our desires, our very selves, were not yet quite inside ourselves. What’s even stranger is that I might as easily say: they were not yet quite taken away from us.
If you should sometime happen to ask yourself today, when you think you’re entirely in possession of yourself, who you really are, you will discover that you always see yourself from the outside, as an object. You’ll notice that one time you get angry, another time you get sad, just as your coat will sometimes be wet and sometimes too warm.
No matter how intensely you try to look at yourself, you may at most find something about the outside, but you’ll never get inside yourself. Whatever you do you remain outside yourself, with the possible exception of those rare moments when a friend might say that you’re beside yourself.
It’s true that as adults we’ve made up for this by being able to think at any time that ‘I am’- if you think that’s fun. You see a car and somehow in a shadowy way you also see ‘I am seeing a car’. You’re in love, or sad, and see that it’s you. But neither the car, nor your sadness, nor your love, nor even yourself, is quite fully there.
Nothing is as completely there as it once was in childhood; everything you touch, including your inmost self, is more or less congealed from the moment you have achieved your ‘personality’ and what’s left is a ghostly hanging thread of self awareness and murky self regard, wrapped up in a wholly external existence.
What goes wrong? There’s a feeling that something might still be salvaged. Surely you can’t claim that a child’s experience is all that different from a man’s? I don’t know any real answer, even if there may be this or that idea about it. But for a long time I’ve responded by having lost my love for this kind of ‘being myself’ and for this kind of world.”
― Local Garda, Sunday, 2 November 2008 22:35 (eleven years ago) link
I bought this recently, and really want to start it but am daunted by the size. That excerpt has me tantalised though. Loves me some Austro-Hungarians.
― James Morrison, Sunday, 2 November 2008 22:47 (eleven years ago) link
Just bought this yesterday, after hankering after it for ages, taking the plunge thanks to a 20% off voucher for Waterstones (I picked up Infinite Jest and The Book Of Disquiet too, so my bags were seriously weighed down).
― krakow, Saturday, 8 November 2008 10:27 (eleven years ago) link
Arrgh! Yet Another Greatest Book of All Time that extends to massive length. I will never live long enough to read them all. Consequently, my mind shall never be nourished and fattened upon their ineffable goodness and pure profundity.
Why does this happen to me? Is it my punishment for reading the sports section of the daily newspaper? Is it my bad karma for reading nothing but dinosaur books and joke books when I was 10 years old?
BTW, this sounds like a good book. I will put it on my ever-lengthening list. **sigh**
― Aimless, Sunday, 9 November 2008 01:58 (eleven years ago) link
We need some 'Greatest Short Books Of All Time' as an alternative for those without swathes of time and concentration.
― krakow, Sunday, 9 November 2008 08:06 (eleven years ago) link
Has anyone read the other Musil books? I tried reading "The Magic Mountain" by Thomas Mann recently as a follow up to this but I found it less witty and without story and verve to accompany the philosophy.
― Local Garda, Sunday, 9 November 2008 21:10 (eleven years ago) link
'The Confusions of Young Torless' is excellent, and only about 180 pages.
SHAMELESS SELF-PLUG: I used to write a great short books column for Bookslut - http://www.bookslut.com/authors.php?author=James%20Morrison - but gave up due to complete indifference from the editor.
― James Morrison, Sunday, 9 November 2008 21:48 (eleven years ago) link
I think I'm going to have to get 'The Confusions of Young Torless' as well, to read first, and hopefully ease the way towards 'The Man Without Qualities' (which I lugged home from work today and is mighty daunting).
― krakow, Sunday, 9 November 2008 22:09 (eleven years ago) link
I read "Young Torless" years ago, and loved it. The only Musil I've finished.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Sunday, 9 November 2008 22:46 (eleven years ago) link
I think that getting outside "myself" (my tastes, etc), enough to really listen to stuff I'd never really heard before, while working in a record store, made me a better reviewer, a better "self" (one with bigger or better holes in it). I'll have to read that. Meanwhile, some other short greats or goods incl. "Ballad of the Sad Cafe" and Ethan Frome (oh yeah, and The Great Gatsby, The Crying of Lot 49, some by Faulkner)
― dow, Sunday, 23 November 2008 20:28 (eleven years ago) link
OK, I'm ready to start this. I think. Encouragement, please!
― APPLAUD YOU CORPSES (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 15:12 (ten years ago) link
i don't even want to think how long i've been reading this
― thomp, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 15:17 (ten years ago) link
Does dow post on ILM anymore? Really liked his posts...
Told myself I'd re-read this year AND MAKE NOTES ETC...I got hold of a short story collection of his last week.
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 21:58 (ten years ago) link
Alfred read it now. There are fantastic holy shit moments on like every other page. I've still only read the first volume and desperately need to find the time to get to vol. 2, but i also want to read all of Dostoevsky's big works. Which to do first? It is a mystery.
― wmlynch, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 23:25 (ten years ago) link
read it alfred, took me about a year and a half but worth it...
― I see what this is (Local Garda), Friday, 16 April 2010 08:50 (ten years ago) link
What Aimless said.
― Blecch Generation (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 16 April 2010 11:24 (ten years ago) link
reading it again now (after something like 14 years ).
one of those rarset books where you can actually take smart quotes from and embrace them as a way of living.
― Zeno, Wednesday, 23 June 2010 21:09 (nine years ago) link
Does anyone know how the different translations (vintage vs. picador) stack up? Is one supposed to be the "definitive" one? Both are available at used book stores, but I'm not sure which one to snag....
― Michael_Pemulis, Thursday, 14 October 2010 23:12 (nine years ago) link
i don't know about definitive—i've never even seen the (older) picador one (kaiser and wilkins?)—but i've also only ever seen one dude in a comment box complain about the new translation (vintage, or knopf in hardcover) (pike and wilkins), and lots of people cheering it. and pike is great—i love reading the prose in his musil, and his recent version of rilke's novel was something.
the newer (vintage) contains a lot more of the nachlass / leftover stuff that musil never managed to incorporate into a finished whole. despite that the leftovers are quite worth reading if you like musil and the more finished parts.
― j., Friday, 15 October 2010 02:15 (nine years ago) link
The only criticism I've heard of the newer version is that the language is a bit too American in the slang, but that it's otherwise excellent
― buildings with goats on the roof (James Morrison), Friday, 15 October 2010 04:33 (nine years ago) link
huh. i can't really recall there being much occasion for slang in the first place. musil ain't döblin.
― j., Friday, 15 October 2010 04:53 (nine years ago) link
I think the new version (on hardback only?) has an accompanying volume of Musil's sketches and for the remainder of the novel? Just sounds like an extra 200 pages of greatness really.
― xyzzzz__, Friday, 15 October 2010 17:38 (nine years ago) link
Cool, thanks for the tips I think I'll go with the new one then, I just liked the 3 different covers the picador editions used.
― Michael_Pemulis, Friday, 15 October 2010 18:18 (nine years ago) link
I have owned this for a couple of years now, and not even attempted to start it. Can someone convince me it has something to do with class and experimental literature? Then I can put it on my PhD reading list, otherwise it'll be another four years before I can even look at it.
― emil.y, Friday, 15 October 2010 18:27 (nine years ago) link
class kinda, it's not a central preoccupation of the book tho, rly only concerning itself to any great extent with the upper class, upper middle class and the lumpenproletariat iirc
experimental lit not so much....it's extremely ambitious but not rly germane to its avant-garde contemporaries
you should read it anyway because it is very great
― ilxinho (nakhchivan), Friday, 15 October 2010 18:38 (nine years ago) link
i am embarrassed to say i tried/failed to read this. are there any good articles/essays about it that are say somewhere between cliffs notes and the book itself?
― Philip Nunez, Friday, 15 October 2010 18:41 (nine years ago) link
not thinking there is a serious strain of experimentalism involved in musil's attempt to wed serious philosophical reflection with novelistic prose sounds rong rong rong to me. it even becomes one of the themes of the book. is there some standard of avant-gardism that his novelist contemporaries were setting that he wasn't (or wasn't trying to)? (i know i sound combative but this is a genuine question.)
philip, you might try reading 'precision and soul' or others of the essays in the collection by that name. if it's your way to work your way up or sidle into authors, you might also prefer to read one or more of the novellas in 'five women'.
― j., Friday, 15 October 2010 22:30 (nine years ago) link
I've read Mann, Proust, Powell...can't seem to get this thing going.
― raging hetero lifechill (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 15 October 2010 22:31 (nine years ago) link
― j., Friday, 15 October 2010 23:30 (3 minutes ago)
don't think u understood...'experimental fiction' wd usually denote various formalist schools practised by 'avant-gardes', or specific techniques eg the versions of stream of consciousness found in late joyce or broch
i don't think musil was an avant-gardist in that sense
'serious philosophical reflection with novelistic prose' isn't a formal device as such, tho it is a strain that you could probably trace thru goethe, sartre, blanchot....
― ilxinho (nakhchivan), Friday, 15 October 2010 22:51 (nine years ago) link
i'm saying that musil took the expression of thought to be intrinsically connected to the form the expression took, and that he took it to be a goal of the novelist to incorporate the intellectual content of his time. to attempt to do that in a novel calls for experimentation in form. the interest of various formalist avant-gardists in special literary devices just seems like a more conspicuous (sometimes because more narrowly focused) manifestation of that experimental attitude.
― j., Friday, 15 October 2010 23:25 (nine years ago) link
that's true, but i was responding to a question about its relevance to 'experimental literature', which i'd take to mean something more specific and formalist
― ilxinho (nakhchivan), Friday, 15 October 2010 23:55 (nine years ago) link
my (british) edition, picador, just cuts off without editorial comment at the end of part three; german editions since the 50s and the new translation do not do this. so er i need to order the american edition before i can get around to finishing it, great.
j. how much of the book do you think reflects serious philosophical thought vs. mocking the pretensions of the characters' various attempts at same? (i kind of wonder if the original translation pushes things a little too far in the latter direction)
― thomp, Saturday, 16 October 2010 00:03 (nine years ago) link
also how does the new one translate 'tausendjahrreich'?
tausendjahriges reich. whatever
― thomp, Saturday, 16 October 2010 00:04 (nine years ago) link
i would have liked to quote from a chapter in volume 1 but i can only find volume 2. : (
here's burton pike, though, in the preface to the posthumous leftovers:
'musil did not finish the man without qualities, although he often said he intended to. there is no way of telling from either the parts published in his lifetime or his posthumous papers how he would have done so, or indeed whether he could have done so to his own satisfaction. this is because of the novel's rigorously experimental structure, consisting of an "open architecture" that could be developed in many directions from any given point. the novel does contain coherent individual threads and incidents, but musil firmly rejected the idea of a plotted narrative whole. therefore, while the drafts of the twenty chapters in part 1 of "from the posthumous papers" carry on from where "into the millennium" left off, the material in part 2 is not preliminary to a final version in the usual sense, but consists rather of notes, sketches, and drafts that musil was keeping in suspension for possible use in some form at some place in the ultimate text, a version he never decided upon and that must forever remain the object of tantalizing speculation.
the extent to which musil regarded this novel as experimental was extraordinary. he had begun work on it in earnest in 1924 and was most reluctant when the urging of publishers and worsening external conditions forced him to publish parts of it in 1931 and 1933 (pages 1-1130 in this edition [i.e. all of parts I, II, and III]). from his point of view, the entire text ought to have remained "open" from the beginning until it had all been written and he could then revise the text as a whole. he complained that partial publication removed those parts of the novel from the possibility of further alteration, as well as distorting the shape (again, a never defined, "open" shape) he had in mind for the whole work. as it was, in 1938, in less than robust health and apparently apprehensive that he would again be forced into premature publication, he withdrew the first twenty chapters that appear in "from the posthumous papers" when they were already set in galleys, in order to rework them still further. these chapters were not intended to conclude the novel but to continue "into the millennium". like goethe, musil had a strange sense of having infinite time stretching out before him in which to complete his task. one is tempted to see in his solitary and stubborn pursuit of his ideal more than a little of kafka's hunger artist.
musil's purpose in writing the man without qualities was a moral one. he had set out to explore possibilities for the right life in a culture that had lost both its center and its bearings but could not tear itself away from its outworn forms and habits of thought, even while they were dissolving. musil equated ethics and aesthetics, and was convinced that a union of "precision and soul," the language and discoveries of science with one's inner life of perceptions and feelings, could be, and must be, achieved. he meant this novel to be experienced as a moral lever to move the world, as emerson and nietzsche intended their writing to be experienced, in such a way that (in rilke's words) "you must change your life." musil's anguish becomes palpable as he pursues this search for the right life using the tools of scientific skepticism, while remaining all too aware of the apparently inherent limitations of human societies and, especially, of human nature. fortunately this anguish is leavened by a sparkling wit of language and situation, as when a character is described as wearing "a wig of split hairs."'
― j., Saturday, 16 October 2010 01:22 (nine years ago) link
― Michael_Pemulis, Friday, 15 October 2010 18:18 (Yesterday) Permalink
Man oh man I love those covers. I have 2/3 vols then own the other vol in the picador (but not in the same style of cover?).
My feelings on this (to give ans emil.y) - Musil said he wasn't interested in Joyce. Given the few bits I know about Musil that could be jealousy but when you read the novel you can tell he wasn't.
He sorta explores the essay form in fiction. A bit like Proust or Borges except the former has more going on by the manner in which he wrote (e.g. the punctuation he utilizes).
Broch is in the middle of all that: part III of The Sleepwalkers is a worried essay but Death of Virgil builds on Joyce.
― xyzzzz__, Saturday, 16 October 2010 11:07 (nine years ago) link
Interesting discussions about experimentalism, thanks guys. I may have to have a bit of a read of it just to see where I stand on the issue too.
― emil.y, Saturday, 16 October 2010 11:46 (nine years ago) link
i reread the first two chapters of part III (beginning of the second vintage volume) last night, the writing is really amazing.
compared to say 'the sleepwalkers' or 'the magic mountain', the way he depicts people thinking or talking about 'important things' makes broch and mann seem like old-timey allegorists. in the first chapter where he re-meets his sister, ulrich is depicted as feeling her out (he barely knows anything about her) in a conversation that takes all these turns in response to the content of what they've said (about her academic-climber of a husband and about gender relations, among other things) and to ulrich's read of her emotional reactions and of his own—it doesn't at all read like 'musil tries out some thoughts about education and gender', it's actually a scene in which people think, and it makes the situation and the people and the ideas seem bound together.
there are all sorts of inversions of time piled up in those first two chapters, it's crazy. but the most awesome is his father's telegram:
this is to inform you that i am deceased.
– your father
― j., Saturday, 16 October 2010 23:43 (nine years ago) link
j you're right in that an idea and a character are more fused together in Musil. Mann (at least in the read I gave to The Magic Mountain) in comparison is quite wooden, all symbols playing off against one anther for supremacy instead of beings on the page, thinking and feeling. I largely think this to be the case in much of the Sleepwalkers (each of the three main characters representing an age blah) but in part III he's playing at a few different things in the essays.
Actually got a copy of part III on its own and I'll need to give that a re-read sometime.
― xyzzzz__, Monday, 18 October 2010 20:14 (nine years ago) link
i would agree about mann except that i do think a lot of the stiffness in 'magic mountain' is not unintentional. it seemed to me like a writerly way to solve the problem of how to depict attraction to and enticement by competing 'great ideas' and their corresponding ways of life, without the course of a novel being the most apt place to express such things. (i put it that way, mainly because i'm trying not to say 'mann didn't understand these things well enough to do them justice in fictional form'.) things in that novel seem quite affected by the naive hans, spiritual education in progress, being the focal point of the narrative, even if the official narrator is distinct from hans.
― j., Monday, 18 October 2010 21:47 (nine years ago) link
the "essays" in Man Without Qualities are (with or without context to the actual "prose" of the book) some of the best, most pure philosophical material ever written (in style and in contents) and Musil insights are magnificent and inspiring.
― Zeno, Monday, 18 October 2010 21:48 (nine years ago) link
i finally read "the confusions of young torless", it was great. i found it tougher going than mwq but still full of really brilliant insight. also i'd forgotten, beyond the philosophy even, what a brilliant mood musil can conjure. torless is so relentlessly violent and bleak, even the thoughts and feelings seem to have a real sense of blood and thunder to them.
i also bought flypaper, a collection of short stories, but not started it yet.
― Phelan Nulty (Local Garda), Thursday, 12 May 2011 10:51 (nine years ago) link
Been finishng his diaries - a lot more relaxed than his novels. Diaries that were not intended for publication will always do that on one level, but its even more pronounced in this case.
Took a while for it to warm up to the contents, so this got more interesting with the entries composed while he was engaged with MwQ, and its reaction: namely his frustration at lack of reaction and non-recognition in Austria. He did save most of his energies for the novel but there are some gems: when he describes H!tler as an emotion, then you see his scientific background on the one hand, and openess to mysticism on the other. A good moment is when he reflects on MwQ that has been pusblished so far as having too much essayistic material that doesn't stick (or words to that effect). The introduction is worth a good scan.
― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 12 May 2011 18:19 (nine years ago) link
Just finished today and there is a wonderful set of entries, a kind of notes-to-an-autobiography that (like so many of his ideas for novels, etc) never materialized.
Really a must (even when there is planty to quibble over and get frustrated by), just an opportunity to spend more time in his company.
― xyzzzz__, Friday, 13 May 2011 17:39 (nine years ago) link
Egon Schiele exhibition (whose paintings were reproduced on those MwQ Picador covers)
― xyzzzz__, Friday, 13 May 2011 17:42 (nine years ago) link
Read about his poem Isis and Orisis today and a translation in this blog about Musil
Isis and OsirisOn the foliage of stars the moonBoy in silvery rest withdrewAnd the hub of the sun's wheel soonTurned and looked at him anew. From the desert the red wind wails. And the coasts are empty of sails.And the sister quietly loosenedThe sleeper's sex and devoured it.And she gave her soft heart, the red one,In return, and laid it upon him, upon him. And in the dream the wound healed over. And his sweet sex she devoured.See how the sun thundered awayAs the sleeper was shocked from sleep,Stars swayed, like ships,Shaking trees, if they are chained,When the great storm begins.See, there his brothers stormedAfter the lovely thief,And he cast his net out.And the blue space broke,The woods broke under her tread,And the stars ran along in dread,But the tender birdshouldered oneCould not be caught by anyone, no matter how fast.Only the boy she called to at nightFinds her, when moon and sun exchange.Of all the hundred brothers, only this one,And he eats her heart and she eats his.
On the foliage of stars the moonBoy in silvery rest withdrewAnd the hub of the sun's wheel soonTurned and looked at him anew.
From the desert the red wind wails. And the coasts are empty of sails.
And the sister quietly loosenedThe sleeper's sex and devoured it.And she gave her soft heart, the red one,In return, and laid it upon him, upon him.
And in the dream the wound healed over. And his sweet sex she devoured.
See how the sun thundered awayAs the sleeper was shocked from sleep,Stars swayed, like ships,Shaking trees, if they are chained,When the great storm begins.See, there his brothers stormedAfter the lovely thief,And he cast his net out.And the blue space broke,The woods broke under her tread,And the stars ran along in dread,But the tender birdshouldered oneCould not be caught by anyone, no matter how fast.
Only the boy she called to at nightFinds her, when moon and sun exchange.Of all the hundred brothers, only this one,And he eats her heart and she eats his.
― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 9 January 2014 23:01 (six years ago) link
Anyone read Heimito von Doderer's The Demons, reading about it in this blog although that piece complains about criticisms of it rather than putting an argument forward for same.
I suspect it isn't v good as the good stuff does manage to stay in circulation in small but visible enough ways but I'd like to hear anyone's thoughts.
― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 8 January 2015 10:31 (five years ago) link
Just found it, haven't listened..
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 17 February 2015 23:52 (five years ago) link
lol er starts with some old concert.
Matthew Sweet annoys me...still wasn't expecting this book to be featured.
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 18 February 2015 00:01 (five years ago) link
That broacast was good in parts: covered Kakania, the way Musil writes about women, how he used himself as a human laboratory is very true an probably much more of post-Freuian psychologist. Agathe. Loved the voice of the guy who reads the passages from the book.
As for the panel Boyd was boring, Drabble was annoying at times (I think the way this book flows from a non-fiction essayism to a fiction of sorts can be baggy and risky but its amazing how Musil pulls it off and keeps you turning pages). Blom seems to have had the longest engagement with the book by far and his comments show that.
― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 19 February 2015 11:04 (five years ago) link
Agree with that - I listened to this earlier this year, forget how I found it.
I thought all of them kind of got it wrong and raised really trite points apart from Blom (assuming he was the German academic.) I just think they failed to actually value it in any meaningful way whereas everything he said really showed a sense of the book as a whole and the wide range of topics it covers.
The others just seemed to say "oh it's ridiculous, this parallel campaign" - as if the book was like a short jolly satire.
― Moyes Enthusiast (LocalGarda), Thursday, 19 February 2015 13:53 (five years ago) link
Excellent piece - its great Blanchot (also one of my favourite novelists but he wrote differently) has written on him, must chase that.
― xyzzzz__, Friday, 20 March 2015 21:51 (five years ago) link
― xyzzzz__, Monday, 20 April 2015 11:56 (five years ago) link
― xyzzzz__, Saturday, 25 July 2015 09:09 (four years ago) link
― doing my Objectives, handling some intense stuff (LocalGarda), Saturday, 25 July 2015 10:24 (four years ago) link
thought about buying, then i saw the design
― r|t|c, Saturday, 25 July 2015 14:09 (four years ago) link
I'm going in!
― as verbose and purple as a Peter Ustinov made of plums (James Morrison), Wednesday, 21 October 2015 09:56 (four years ago) link
― doing my Objectives, handling some intense stuff (LocalGarda), Wednesday, 21 October 2015 12:09 (four years ago) link
Cheers! loving it so far. Not sure what I expected, but this is quite surprising and contemporary and entertaining so far. Just read up to how Ulrich surprises himself by asking for clemency for the sex murderer.
I've been meaning to start this for a while: I've had the book for ages, but couldn't work out if it was complete or not, and had to lots of googling to get a look at various contents pages of various editions online.
My copy is the UK "one-volume" edition of the Wilkins/pike translation, which stops abruptly on p1130 without any explanation, leaving out all the posthumous/unpublished stuff, so I've had to order volume 2 of the US edition to get all that as well. Seems as though the publisher, Picador, could have included a page or two of explanation, instead of these stupid ads at the end for kent Haruf books I don''t want to read.
In the unlikely event the vol 2 doesn't arrived before I get up to that point, I will be making use of http://gen.lib.rus.ec/search.php?req=musil+qualities+knopf&open=0&view=simple&phrase=1&column=def
― as verbose and purple as a Peter Ustinov made of plums (James Morrison), Wednesday, 21 October 2015 23:14 (four years ago) link
My memories of bleak, scary Young Torless did not lead me to expect this to be as humourous as it is (this is not a complaint)
― as verbose and purple as a Peter Ustinov made of plums (James Morrison), Thursday, 22 October 2015 04:15 (four years ago) link
Link to that BBC episode xyzzzz mentioned ~2yrs ago, with download http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02twpys
Will listen to when have finished book. Forgive me for using this thread as a sort of notebook.
― as verbose and purple as a Peter Ustinov made of plums (James Morrison), Thursday, 22 October 2015 04:19 (four years ago) link
Shit my Dad says, Musil edition:
"Oh, I tried to read that once. Didn't get very far. I called it 'The Book Without Qualities'."
― as verbose and purple as a Peter Ustinov made of plums (James Morrison), Monday, 26 October 2015 00:50 (four years ago) link
This book is amazing. I see what everyone means about it taking over your thoughts: even when I'm not reading it, I'm stewing on it.
Just finished the extraordinary scene where they're watching the flasher lurking in the garden.
The transition from the end of the claustrophobic vol 2, to the weirdly sunny funeral-time with Ulrich and his sister, was great. Love the vibe between the siblings, though I have a horrible feeling about where it's going.
― as verbose and purple as a Peter Ustinov made of plums (James Morrison), Thursday, 29 October 2015 23:30 (four years ago) link
― buildings with goats on the roof (James Morrison), Friday, October 15, 2010 3:03 PM (5 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
No idea what i was talking about here
― as verbose and purple as a Peter Ustinov made of plums (James Morrison), Thursday, 29 October 2015 23:32 (four years ago) link
Annoyingly, despite my having bought this book new, it has some nitwit's pencil scribblings every 100 pages or so, inexpertly rubbed out (taking some of the type with it): someone must have returned this copy to a bookshop after defacing it, it got returned to the publisher, and then sent to me, and because it took me 7 years to get round to reading it, it's a bit late to complain and ask for a new copy.
― as verbose and purple as a Peter Ustinov made of plums (James Morrison), Thursday, 29 October 2015 23:34 (four years ago) link
James Morrison for President of ILB
― You're a Big URL Now (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 30 October 2015 03:21 (four years ago) link
yeah torless is so claustrophobic and brooding with violence - man without qualities is indeed really funny and often quite plainly acerbic or dry. i can see that some parts are a slog, like a few chapters at a time here and there, but it still surprises me that some people give up on it or find it a waste of time.
this thread is probably full of me commenting to this effect but that's really how it was when i read it. i can remember reading it on public transport and being struck by some amazing insight or other, and feeling like i wanted to share it with someone as soon as i could. i worked in a bookshop when i read it and occasionally i'd end up chatting to someone who bought a thomas mann book or something vaguely similar, and be like "have you read the man without qualities" - usually if they had it was like this cult revelation.
must read it again sometime, i'd really like to have bookmarked all my favourite parts.
― doing my Objectives, handling some intense stuff (LocalGarda), Friday, 30 October 2015 08:35 (four years ago) link
The blurb on the back says something along the lines of every page has some observation or description which strikes you anew, and while most blurbs are balls, this one is really true. Not bad when every page = 1100+ pages
― as verbose and purple as a Peter Ustinov made of plums (James Morrison), Friday, 30 October 2015 09:16 (four years ago) link
it's so wide-ranging as well - like it's casually brilliant on so many different topics. i'd need to read it again to remember it all as it was about 2008 when i finished it, but the general stumpf chapters in particular are incredible, especially for the internet age.
― doing my Objectives, handling some intense stuff (LocalGarda), Friday, 30 October 2015 09:25 (four years ago) link
love the poor old general and his aborted scheme to read all the important books, one per day
Have finished the main book, and the bonus stuff not yet arrived in post, so will have to wait a bit to read on. It's odd the way it actually seems to be building to a climax at the end, with the weight of all the read pages in your left hand and almost all the characters assembling in one place, but then it doesn't, of course. Hard to know how it ever could have an ending. I read that Musil told someone he wanted the book the end suddenly, midsentence, with a comma, and it actually almost does.
Most vivid characters at the moment as i think back on it are the general, the surprisingly sane and balanced agnes, despite her criminality, and the strange, somewhat mad clarisse, idling along and clutching at people like a deluded, messianic crab.
― as verbose and purple as a Peter Ustinov made of plums (James Morrison), Monday, 2 November 2015 10:09 (four years ago) link
in a letter of 1934 to his friend the satirist Franz Blei, Musil, given his desperate personal situation and the Nazi takeover in Germany, compares his continued work on The Man without Qualities to “the diligence of a woodworm, boring through a picture frame in a house that is already ablaze”.
― as verbose and purple as a Peter Ustinov made of plums (James Morrison), Tuesday, 3 November 2015 22:57 (four years ago) link
Awesome how you finished this so fast! What's the Bonus stuff? Can you buy that as a separate vol?
Ronan - did you read Thought Flights?
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 3 November 2015 23:01 (four years ago) link
The bonus stuff is all in the second volume of the Pike/Burton translation, http://www.amazon.com/Man-Without-Qualities-Vol-Millennium/dp/0679768025
It's 20 chapters/200 pages Musil removed from the published book at the last minute, plus about 400 pages of unfinished extra chapters, scenes, notes, etc
If one were inclined to "preview" it, one could do so at http://gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=64d2da654c43c543a06c53ac513a3902
― as verbose and purple as a Peter Ustinov made of plums (James Morrison), Tuesday, 3 November 2015 23:39 (four years ago) link
i really want to reread this now. hm
― ♛ LIL UNIT ♛ (thomp), Wednesday, 4 November 2015 00:31 (four years ago) link
i mean i feel like that desire would last ~ 100 pages but
Ha, know the feeling
― Memes of the Pwn Age (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 4 November 2015 02:46 (four years ago) link
I started this again. Wish me luck.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 29 July 2016 19:13 (three years ago) link
― a little too mature to be cute (Aimless), Friday, 29 July 2016 23:58 (three years ago) link
ch wünsche dir viel Glück dabei.
― The New Original Human Beatbox (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 30 July 2016 02:58 (three years ago) link
Ach. Ich wünsche dir viel Glück dabei.
(I would have just typed instead of c+p, but easier to get the umlauts the other way)
― The New Original Human Beatbox (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 30 July 2016 02:59 (three years ago) link
I keep meaning to retry this. I got about halfway last time. I remember I was enjoying it - think I must have got distracted by something else.
― two crickets sassing each other (dowd), Saturday, 30 July 2016 06:09 (three years ago) link
just saw this question from upthread. i have it but haven't read it yet. maybe read a few pages. need to remedy.
― Bein' Sean Bean (LocalGarda), Saturday, 30 July 2016 08:33 (three years ago) link
― James Morrison, Sunday, November 9, 2008 4:48 PM (7 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
sick. im gonna read all of these i love short books
― flopson, Monday, 1 August 2016 02:36 (three years ago) link
First impressions after roughly 100pp. The approach to story or content is extremely diffuse. The best description of the story so far might be 'some things happen'. But this diffusion is more than offset by the crisp acuity and rueful humor of the author's voice. I am carried along happily wherever Musil wishes to take me, trusting implicitly that he will take me to a place of interest, sentence by sentence.
incidentally, Musil's prose, as viewed through the lens of the translation, is purely remarkable without being striking. He doesn't form his phrases to impress you through stylistic posturing. Instead they each carry an intellectual tension that he successfully resolves over and over again, either as wit or as insight. It's pretty cool to watch him work.
― a little too mature to be cute (Aimless), Thursday, 17 November 2016 02:08 (three years ago) link
Nicely put, aimless. Diffuse is the word---in 1000 pages the plot will not be much further advanced, but there is something great or lgely on each of those pages
― I hear from this arsehole again, he's going in the river (James Morrison), Thursday, 17 November 2016 09:14 (three years ago) link
What translation, Aimless? Anybody?
― dow, Saturday, 19 November 2016 01:39 (three years ago) link
I have the Sophie Wilkins & Burton Pike translation.
― a little too mature to be cute (Aimless), Saturday, 19 November 2016 02:26 (three years ago) link
This review has Hofmann saying a bunch of really nice things about Musil but its really unbalanced as a critique of translation in the sense that I have no idea why the NYRB edition is a good translation in the same way that the Archipelago edition of the Novellas is terrible. The review of the NYRB is simply puff.
― xyzzzz__, Monday, 9 March 2020 15:23 (two months ago) link