Nirvana: ENOUGH already!

I'd peek into Jaz Coleman's diaries any day over those from the Seattle crown prince of frat rock.

Count me in with the crowd of people who think Nirvana were just an average band. Maybe slightly above average, but who's counting?

the frightening is that he isn't. its quite funny when DJ martian rants abt NME and then says that there's no news abt the new killing joke. you know, a whole rant abt them not coverring new music and then he spoils it by talking abt killing joke.

actually those two should get married. i think that would be appropriate.

the facts, Julio:

It woz me that alerted Alex to ILM last year.

first website to report the name of Killing Joke's new album and full tracklisting - my weblog. Tuesday 5th November - breaking news relayed from The Gathering Killing Joke mailing list. Still no news from the NME, they ignore bands such as The Chameleons and Killing Joke.

slagging off of no mark NME approved trad britpoppers Electric Soft Parade - earlier this year - my weblog.

Nirvana are an average band - I have always acknowledged this year, and again stated this last week on my weblog.

providing Info on (reissue) and new albums released this year by Derek Bailey, and many other improvised/avant garde types e.g Tony Conrad, Sun Ra, Iannis Xenakis - i.e rated by Julio - read my weblog !

...the only place on the web to cover all these things,

DJ Martian's Page essential music info on the web in one place.

The thing is if Killing joke had packed it in and NME did a special on them you two wouldn't be complaining, I reckon.

''...the only place on the web to cover all these things''

all these 'weird' and 'wonderful' things eh martian. its all good.

I hope that Uncut - would do a Killing Joke special - e.g a front cover to tie in with the new album and retro feature, why not? would make a change from the same boring 60s types.

its just that a lot of the music you're into i don't like really (but that's not so important). However, I think there's too much list making and too many anti-NME rants (I did stop reading yr blog a while ago so I don't know if its changed). the thing is yr rants are OTM but for me the NME doesn't exist. its the whole i wish NME were dead tomorrow thing that gets tiresome after a while.

but also i only pick up what i see on the shops here in london. i don't feel the need to keep up with what's happening in music this year etc. I don't think the date on the back of a record is of any importance whatsoever.

so the way i'm thinking abt things has changed.

but also I do put all my internet time on both ILM AND ILE now but anyway keep it up martian. your blog is a fantastic source of info and i might return to it someday.

x starts buying recs in the 80s, rants at mags doing covers on 60s types.

y starts buying recs in the 00s, rants at mags doing covers on 80s types.

and on it goes...

I don't think you can say something that happened back in 1986, would carry over to 2002. The only bloke at the NME now that would remember the incident would be Steve "I made a career out of music journalism" Sutherland. Sutherland is now the editorial director of the NME.

Killing Joke have never been a NME approved band.

Generation Y - don't read Uncut ! they more likely to read Kerrang and/or NME.

Anyway - when Q was launched in 1986 it covered the boring 60s stuff, then Mojo was launched early 90s - and covered more retro stuff than Q - and still in 2002 - Mojo covers the same 60s stuff again and again. Uncut has been boring of late re front covers choice in 2001 and 2002, too many of the same names recycled again and again.

Killing Joke for front cover of Uncut.

Blog in 2002 - actually there are less long lists - I have managed info better in 2002 re archives and better presentation of info/ less duplication compared with the blog in 2001/ 2000, also less anti NME rants - only when something particularly annoys me that I mention it, I don't do anti NME rants every week !

As I have said before if NME had some weekly competition that covered music that was closer in scope/coverage to my weblog - then I would not focus on my opposition to the NME, however I don't approve of NME's weekly monopoly position - and their bullshit generated worldview that goes unchallenged elsewhere in print, due to a lack of a weekly competitor. e.g Back in the late 80s I couldn't give a stuff about the NME's agenda - I had Melody Maker ans Sounds each week.

Re my weblog, In 2002 there is more of a focus on providing quality info re forthcoming releases so I/ the readers can explore things further - take from it whatever takes your interest. Sure I don't expect everyone to agree / or find everything of interest re: the scope of music i cover.

The blog is just a starting point (unlike a personal reviews site - that are after consumption oriented), I provide upfront information first..primarily focused on breaking news and forthcoming releases.

Yes I know you don't like the style of my rants, Julio and I can see why - there not rigorous or indepth serious, there often more in a Mr Abusing/ TTT olde Melody Maker styleee. There needs to be balance of coverage, between the serious and lighthearted coverage - something that i enjoyed back in the heyday of Melody Maker.

Re: but also i only pick up what i see on the shops here in london. i don't feel the need to keep up with what's happening in music this year etc. I don't think the date on the back of a record is of any importance whatsoever.

But this year's music 2002 - will be in few years time - music from the near past. By have a better understanding of the now, for me means i continually improve my ongoing personal perception/ appreciation/ enjoyment/ understanding of music. Music is constantly evolving.

Julio, surely we all live in the NOW - you can still mix the past and the present. Anyway if your approach works for you, then all the best. But I still can't see why the enforced disinterest in music of the NOW i.e this year?

Re: but also I do put all my internet time on both ILM AND ILE now but anyway keep it up martian. your blog is a fantastic source of info and i might return to it someday.

Julio, go on try to allocate some time each day. Also one weekend catch up with 2002 in the monthly Archives.

In anticipation of this I have recorded a new song entitled "My Thugz They Don't Sweat Me." Acoustic guitar, 808 emulator and voice. I eager await releasing it under the Tupac imprimatur.

D Growl so technically proficient and exact like a robot. Like every fill on “in bloom” is exactly the same as every other. Where’s the swing, where’s the improvisation? Ultimately boring

Hot take!

revive of the century

Imagine if in 1994 Cobain stayed in rehab and Grohl choked to death on a microwave burrito.

Grohl could hold his own in improvisations though, especially 'Gallons of Rubbing Alcohol...' and 'The Other Improv'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44uSksPOHtg

as far as being a more adventurous player, from what I've read Grohl was on his toes the entire time he was in the band, expecting to be fired eventually given their history with drummers. Kurt is pretty testy with him in Unplugged.

On a Lou Reed scale of 1 to 10..

How testy was Kurt to Dave?

sixteen years pass...

Ouch.

Or, put it another way (and since this thread mentions the Chameleons), around the era of this thread ILM had got all Chameleonsed out and I read somewhere on here about how there was this old forgotten classic "Strange Times", seemed like p. much ancient history really but it was new to me. That record was 16 years old at the time, which was 16 years ago now...

The craziest Grohl Machine story I saw was the QOTSA recording of "No One Knows." I just Grohl played it first on maybe drum pads and live cymbals then again the exact same way with real drums and no cymbals, and then they blended the takes? Let me look it up. Hard to do, for sure, especially since the track is pretty busy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nncw_T6MKg8

D Growl so technically proficient and exact like a robot. Like every fill on “in bloom” is exactly the same as every other. Where’s the swing, where’s the improvisation? Ultimately boring

― calstars, Monday, January 7, 2019 12:36 PM (yesterday)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmtbsFW0tCw

Grohl was great as a drummer for Nirvana imo, better that than as a constantly posturing human meme bacon rock star.

On 'In Bloom' he's pretty much copying Chad Channing's drum part anyway.

god this band was awful. listening to their music beyond singles for the first time a cpl years ago was like a skeleton key unlocking the secret to why all rock bands have sucked for the entire duration of my life. https://i.ibb.co/v10wrc4/x2.gif

sb

I've never listened to nirvana and thought "this rhythm section isn't good"

also rock bands don't sound like nirvana in the 21st century

i read somewhere during recordings they would try strobe lights to simulate a click track for grohl to play along to, but that didn't pan out -- he's apparently not as precise and robotic as you'd think!

that's the same progression a step higher

except it should be E Abm Dbm

Yeah, the intervals are the same.

i guess it's all power chords so in terms of what you play major/minor doesn't matter

E-G#m would be v different from Em-G#. I'd be surprised if it were the latter but tbh I was taking voodoo chilli's word. Will go double check right now.xp And power chords would be different too.

Tbh, there's probably Nirvana bootlegs where various songs are played in different keys to the album versions. Not on purpose, but because the bands of the bands attitude to tuning.

Like, I'm quite sure I've seen footage where the guitar has gone out of tune, and Kurt is trying to tune to Krist, who is probably out of tune himself from thrashing his bass too hard and jumping around, or the other way around. The Nirvana live experience was never a polished affair.

The way Kurt would fret his power chords would accidentally generate a sus4 sometimes, e.g. the intro to 'Smells Like Teen Spirit'

oh wait I mixed up where the Bb was

If the chord progression starts on E, which is a "sharp" key rather than a "flat" one, and it's all power chords, then I'd write it: E5 G#5 C#5 A5 C5 D5 B5 D5, and in that progression only the C5 really sticks out to me.

Reviewed it. Guitar is def playing power chords. The vocal melody does put F#s over the D5, B over the G5, and D over the Bb5, making triadic analyses of those (as I, IV, and bVI) reasonable, as well as a Bb over the first C5, which could give it a 7th chord feel. The vocal melody sticks to diatonic major material over the first, diatonic part of the progression, but you get C natural and Bb over the second half ("today I found my friends").

xps (Wasn't going to comment on the sharp key thing but yeah)

Bb over the first C5, which could give it a 7th chord feel.

(As bVII7 is even more common of a dominant substitution in jazz harmony, this could support voodoo chilli's Tin Pan Alley comparison perhaps?)

Lol yeah, should be written as A#, but for whatever reason, when I’m playing the piano, my mind always thinks “Bb” when I play that triad. And I always think of the Gb/F# triad as F#.

No, Bb is the correct notation for bVI in D! Reading Ab and Db in the key of D was hurting my head a little, though.

Reading Ab and Db in the key of D

*key of E

Good to know!

Also I'm listening to Live Through This again, and I'm fairly confident that Kurt had close to fuck all to do with the songwriting on it, contrary to the rumours that were circling for years. The chord progressions don't really display many of his hallmarks, and Courtney's melodic sense is quite distinct from Kurt's. The closest it gets to Nirvana is the riff on 'She Walks on Me' and even then there's something not-quite-Kurt about it.

those rumors were largely fueled by sexism, there was never any "there" there.

Guitar magazine was one of the many shitty publications that, while not endorsing the rumors, gave way too much credence to it as a possibility

in that progression only the C5 [Bb5 in the recorded D] really sticks out to me.

I might agree if e.g. he were just singing pentatonic or blues material over all of it but the melody (which started out completely diatonic in D) goes B-C#-D-C natural -Bb-Cnatural-A when the chords go G5-Bb5-C5, which does suggest a change, or at least mixture of mode

Yeah, I was talking about it more in terms of just looking at that particular series of chords coldly as a sequence off paper/a screen, but yeah, of course any vocal melody is going to add colour, particularly as (like you say) a sung major/minor 3rd over a power chord is going to create a triad. It's the same with the bass, and there's an interesting bass part on 'Lithium' which adds further colour - it's not a "follow the root" bass part.

Guitar magazine was one of the many shitty publications that, while not endorsing the rumors, gave way too much credence to it as a possibility

― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Tuesday, January 15, 2019 4:29 AM (twenty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Wait, seriously? In what way? Through musical analysis or just being dicks in general?

It was in one of the opening sections of the mag, where they just dumped every bit of industry gossip into a two page spread. They talked about the "Live Through This" rumor, I guess there was a claim that a tape had been unearthed of Kurt playing a demo/guide track for one of the songs, and Guitar was running with it like this was the truth, and hypothesizing that a longer recording of him demoing the entire rest of the album might exist as well.

Of course said 'demo' tape never really existed but Guitar was, as I said, a shitty magazine, so....

it smacked of 'aww how cute, this pretty young woman thinks she wrote da whole widdle album all by herself" patronizing bullshit

Christ. I mean, there is a recording of Kurt singing a backing vocal on a demo of 'Asking For It' alongside Courtney (I've heard it) but that's not the same thing as "Kurt wrote the song and demoed it" ... I would say Kurt's input on the writing of that song was zero - it sounds nothing like a Kurt song.

yeah, they were framing it like it was a solo demo, which even then wouldn't have proven anything other than "he thought it was a good song and played it"

xpost I don't understand all this music jargon but this guy loves deconstructing songs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMUkMGNX0Uk

yeah the Live Through This bs doesn't even withstand the timeline, Courtney wrote Doll Parts & some others before they ever hooked up... agree that her melodic sensibility & her and Eric's guitar playing are pretty distinct from Kurt's. the riff & beginning of verse melody in "She Walks On Me" = "Tourettes"

It sounded more like Kurt singing along to a track in his kitchen

I've got mega-cable where I'm living now, so I usually wrap up my Sunday nights with 120 Minutes on MTV Classic. They played an edit of the '92 VMA "Lithium" last night, and just...damn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9cxMsGFgQ8

The whole thing is something that feels like a lot of rules were quickly created so it won't happen again.

LOL @ how nervous Dana Carvey looks when he reads that Nirvana is the winner

Who's playing "Michael Jackson"? I don't remember any of this...

IIRC, it was a professional MJ impersonator they hired.

tab soren, true professional, doesn't even flinch or get weird about it when 1993's Dumbest Man in Rock acts upon his impulse to immediately 'dip' the lady interviewer interviewing him

this is a guy who - on national television! - tossed his electric bass guitar 20 feet in the air only to have it draw blood when connecting with his face on the way back down

and she just laughs and it off and smiles cause she knows her hair was more perfect than his career will ever be, and she was right

good stuff, and fuck you dad for trying to tell me over dinner last week that 1963-1973 was the objectively "greatest" decade in popular music

remember joseph goebbels

that performance of Lithium is the peak of the band imo - at least the rock side

What does he sing after "I'm so r---"? "I can't take the salads out"??

Casting a vote for this live clip (never got to see them myself, sadly):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zagAeZ5eH94

xpost Sund4r: "I can't take a sedative"

Boyz II Men and Wilson Phillips.

Ah

god krist is so annoying

he was the worst in that infamous nardwuar interview too