no-hitters (the baseball type): s/d c/d

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there's an autobio¿ sah-weet

dyson (dyson), Monday, 28 April 2003 06:09 (twenty-one years ago) link

This is making me want to watch the All-Century Team DVD again. I also want to unfreeze Ted Williams and hug Nolan Ryan in a manly way, but that's probably the sleeping pills talking.

Tep (ktepi), Monday, 28 April 2003 06:10 (twenty-one years ago) link

"Dock Ellis in the Country of Baseball" is out of print, too bad so sad (as is the sadaharu oh book and the hidden game of baseball book that bill james and allen barra always namecheck, aargh)

James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 28 April 2003 06:11 (twenty-one years ago) link

(lowe's no-hitter, which was the devil rays, was actually the last one in the majors until today. it was a year ago.)

maura (maura), Monday, 28 April 2003 06:19 (twenty-one years ago) link

(lowe's no-hitter, which was against the devil rays, was actually the last one in the majors until today. it was a year ago.)

maura (maura), Monday, 28 April 2003 06:20 (twenty-one years ago) link

argh double post

maura (maura), Monday, 28 April 2003 06:20 (twenty-one years ago) link

Yeah, that was in April too, I think. Everyone (I speak as a Boston fan) hoped it boded of things to come, and it did in that Lowe's a much better pitcher now that he's found his groove thing, but we still didn't win the World Series, dammit.

Tep (ktepi), Monday, 28 April 2003 06:24 (twenty-one years ago) link

Search: Bud Smith's 2001 no-hitter.
I would love, love, love to see tape of a Sandy Koufax perfect game sometime.

I like watching no-hitters or even 1- or 2- hitters develop. At first it seems dull, nothing happening, then gradually it starts to seem like "maybe this is something special?" and the announcers are superstitious so they won't mention it directly but they'll hint a little bit, and if it really get's going it's incredibly exciting. I remember kind of half-watching Bud Smith's on the tv at the gym and remember noting after 7 innings or so "hmm, no hits, pretty good" then I the last time I checked the tv all the Cardinals were hugging him and he just had this really purely happy look on his face. It was sweet. Even if a team has a really lousy season you can hope for something special to happen in any given game.

I heard "no hitter" is technically short for "no hit/no run" game because you could theoretically lose a no hit game. My brother says there's a rule that there has to be at least one spectacular defensive play in every no hitter, too.

felicity (felicity), Monday, 28 April 2003 06:46 (twenty-one years ago) link

I know all about Doc Ellis, thanks to the song by Chuck Brodsky.

DV (dirtyvicar), Monday, 28 April 2003 08:11 (twenty-one years ago) link

ain't there a barbara manning song, as well?

Dallas Yertle (Dallas Yertle), Monday, 28 April 2003 08:29 (twenty-one years ago) link

"Randy Johnson" hee hee

Mark C (Mark C), Monday, 28 April 2003 10:55 (twenty-one years ago) link

What on earth is a "no hitter", I wonder...

Heeeeey batter batter batter, seeeeeeerrr-WING batter batter batter (this is all I know about baseball cultcha)!

Maura you never chat to me anymore! How are you? How is Pret? I do not work anywhere near a Pret now. Boo.

Sarah (starry), Monday, 28 April 2003 11:35 (twenty-one years ago) link

Hi Sarah!! I never chat with anyone anymore, I'm working the night shift these days and tired when I'm not working. Or in Philly. My new office is nowhere near a Pret either, although even if it was I wouldn't be able to shop there because of all the night shift etc.

How are you?

I will email you later today -- I have to go to a freelance interview soon.

maura (maura), Monday, 28 April 2003 15:33 (twenty-one years ago) link

Search- all 7 by Nolan Ryan, Mike Scott in '86, Larry Dierker in 76(?).
Don Larsen's perfect game in the world series back in '56 owns.

Charles McCain (Charles McCain), Monday, 28 April 2003 15:37 (twenty-one years ago) link

I had front row seats just down the third base line from the Blue Jays dugout for Ryan's seventh no-hitter. Before the game, I got a baseball autographed by Roberto Alomar (then a no-name), who was the last strikeout of the game.

I still don't understand the Ryan worship with Rangers fans (yo, people, he never won more than 13-14 games here, and the team sucked), but that was awfully exciting.

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Monday, 28 April 2003 15:56 (twenty-one years ago) link


Search: Bud Smith's 2001 no-hitter.

Was he the one who had 0 H/10W/3K? That shouldn't count.

jm (jtm), Monday, 28 April 2003 15:58 (twenty-one years ago) link

Mark did you know that "Randy Johnson"s nickname is "The Big Unit"??

For undisclosed reasons.

A "no-hitter" is when a baseball pitcher (he's like a cricket bowler) plays the whole game yet doesn't allow a single batter to hit the ball and reach base (a "hit"). If the batter does hit the ball it's caught, or thrown to the base before he gets there (an "out"). Of course a pitcher can accidentally hit the batter with the ball, giving the batter a free trip to first base. Or a pitcher can throw terrible pitches, too far away for the batter to hit; 4 of these with any given batter and the batter is also awarded first base (a "walk"). Or the batter can hit the ball and one of the fielders will bobble it or kick it away, or have it jump inside his sleeve unfortuitously (an "error"). However none of these are "hits" so they don't impinge on a "no-hitter". In a "perfect game" none of these events happen: not one of the batters you face reaches base.

Wow, Milo!! That must have been something!

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 28 April 2003 15:58 (twenty-one years ago) link

http://207.21.243.204/images/3400.jpg


I still don't understand the Ryan worship with Rangers fans

jm (jtm), Monday, 28 April 2003 16:01 (twenty-one years ago) link

Yeah Robin!

Search: all of them, even t-ball no-hitters, and especially the two I threw in HS (including one with only 1 K -- mostly infield pop-ups) and the four-inning mercy-shortened one I threw a couple years before that in Koufax ball (11 Ks and one screaming line-out to my groin, er, me). Low-hit games with few runs -- especially when they're manufactured runs -- are the absolute best. They're full of tense moments and they're VERY FAST. HRs = zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Andy K (Andy K), Monday, 28 April 2003 16:02 (twenty-one years ago) link

Yeah, the Bosox hit two home runs in a row to snap a 14-inning tie last night, and not even a squealing j.Lo could conceal that it was sort of an anticlimactic way to bust things open. Getting a runne over, a steal, a hit and run - would have been much more exciting. My dad's theory on this btw is that home runs land outside the field of play so should logically be regarded as foul balls.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 28 April 2003 17:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Tracer your dad rules.

Andy K (Andy K), Monday, 28 April 2003 17:12 (twenty-one years ago) link

That's crazy talk. You're going to penalize a batter for doing his job in the best manner he possibly can? People like home runs because it's perfection. Just making good solid contact with the baseball against a great pitcher is already the hardest feat in sports (viz. the point of this thread). You wistful types drive me nuts.

Mr. Diamond (diamond), Monday, 28 April 2003 17:22 (twenty-one years ago) link

Anyway, personal memory (forgot to add in my initial post): I've never seen a no-hitter in person and only once ever watched a full no-hitter from start to finish on TV. 1984 Detroit Tigers, first week of the season. They'd been chosen to be featured on the national NBC "game of the week" that Saturday, against the Chicago White Sox. Five or six games into the season I think, and the Tigers hadn't lost yet. Jack Morris goes out and throws a no-hitter. That was the first inkling that the season was going to be something special. They went on to start out 35-5, went to wire to wire (never not in 1st place), and won the World Series. Still the only no-hitter I've watched. What a magical season.

Mr. Diamond (diamond), Monday, 28 April 2003 17:27 (twenty-one years ago) link

Bob Forsch threw 2 for the Cards. And his brother threw one. And he could hit!

bnw (bnw), Monday, 28 April 2003 17:29 (twenty-one years ago) link

I watched that Morris no-hitter from beginning to end too. That whole year was wonderful. (A Sid Monge Coke can sits proudly on my desk to this day.)

I'm much more wowed by a hitter who can leg out a triple. Some Bluto-looking dude who can hit a baseball 500 ft does not impress me, especially these days.

Has there been anyone since Tommy Herr (1985?) who has ended a season with less than 10 HRs and more than 100 RBIs? There should be a special award for that. (Obviously I haven't been in the MLB loop for a few years.)

Andy K (Andy K), Monday, 28 April 2003 17:33 (twenty-one years ago) link

jack morris. that guy could pitch – in the sense that he'd always pitch just beter enough than the other guy to get the win. when he had that no hitter whoever was pitching for the sox must've only given up like 3! jack was the king of the 1 run win¡

dyson (dyson), Monday, 28 April 2003 17:34 (twenty-one years ago) link

Tracer is your dad Ty Cobb?

James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 28 April 2003 17:34 (twenty-one years ago) link

You're right, Diamond, hitters shouldn't be penalized for making perfect contact. But in baseball, dad-theories must always be taken seriously, if only to be ultimately rejected. My dad's willfully obtuse theory recognizes home runs as a total suspension of the normal flow of the game. A home run wipes the board clean. All the strategy—the manager thinking two batters ahead, steal, hit and run, pinch-hit the next guy—all that stuff just gets lifted right out of the park along with the ball..... it's like deus ex machina, the hand of God coming down with New Rules. I think secretly my dad's real reason for this is that he imagined that home-run hitters don't have to "work" for their runs—obviously rubbish. And strange coming from a Jim Rice fan.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 28 April 2003 18:10 (twenty-one years ago) link

James: no, thank goodness.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 28 April 2003 18:11 (twenty-one years ago) link

Oh yes. A triple is the most thrilling play in baseball. Hitting for the cycle may be the offensive equivalent to a no-hitter.

jimmythe mod, I think you're thinking of Burnett's but why don't you try throwing one before you start hating on Lil' Bud Smith :)

felicity (felicity), Monday, 28 April 2003 18:57 (twenty-one years ago) link

I gotcha Tracer, and I see where your father is coming from. I guess when my team connects for the home run such aesthetic concerns generally are forgotten. Also, even if fair ground theoretically extended to infinity it wouldn't eliminate the home run. Those line-drive home runs if allowed to drop fair would still allow most runners to round the bases (Mo Vaughn might have to pull up with a double).

Triples are great, but the inside-the-parker is even more thrilling. The only thing is it always involves an outfielder misplaying the ball. I was at the game when Jose Valentin hit for the cycle back in 2000. The last thing he needed was the home run and he got it in his last at-bat.

Also, re: the single-mindedness of home-run hitters - they work for their runs, but it usually hurts them in the end. Witness the butt-of-jokes that is Rob Deer, the sad end to Jose Canseco's career, Greg Vaughn's pathetic last three years, and the arrested development of Mike Cameron.

Mr. Diamond (diamond), Monday, 28 April 2003 19:32 (twenty-one years ago) link

Hehe -- Dave Kingman's 1982 stats:

G 149
H 109
HR 37
RBI 99
SO 156
OBP .285
AVG .204

Andy K (Andy K), Monday, 28 April 2003 19:58 (twenty-one years ago) link

I've started playing ESPN's Bill James Classic Baseball lately. It's a little expensive ($50/team), but you draft a roster from old-timers (1880s through 1997) with a $50mil salary cap, and get three boxscores every morning while you manage your team. I hate to spend the money, but now waking up without getting to check how my team did last night doesn't feel right.

Contemporary baseball doesn't interest me much. The games are too long, it's boring on TV and (especially in the AL), strategy doesn't seem to matter much. Going to the Ballpark in Arlington and drinking beer in the Home Run Porch is still a good time though.

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Monday, 28 April 2003 20:20 (twenty-one years ago) link

ooh, I forgot inside-the-park home run! I enjoyed Magglio tagging 2 the other night.

felicity (felicity), Monday, 28 April 2003 20:47 (twenty-one years ago) link

It's a bit dud when your team is like the most often no-hit team evah.(That'd be 17 times, with I think 4 in the '90s.)

Leee (Leee), Monday, 28 April 2003 21:01 (twenty-one years ago) link

Also, what do yall think about Nolan Ryan? I've heard that batters were glad that Ventura charged him cos all of them were convinced that Ryan was hitting them on purpose but were too awed/afraid to call the old man on it.

Leee (Leee), Monday, 28 April 2003 21:02 (twenty-one years ago) link

Yes, that's what the Yankees announcers were talking about over the weekend. He definitely threw at people at will.

I love Noly as a player, he's a freak of nature like Randy Johnson, but that account kind of diminished my affection for him. But I was happy because I always liked Ventura and I had a hard time believing he acted like such a punk. Now it seems righteous, like when Mike Sweeney charged Jeff Weaver a couple of years ago. I like Weaver now, though.

felicity (felicity), Monday, 28 April 2003 21:07 (twenty-one years ago) link

I like baseball.

felicity (felicity), Monday, 28 April 2003 21:09 (twenty-one years ago) link

Has there been anyone since Tommy Herr (1985?) who has ended a season with less than 10 HRs and more than 100 RBIs? There should be a special award for that. (Obviously I haven't been in the MLB loop for a few years.)

Paul Molitor ('96) 9 hr - 113 rbi. There may be others, but I doubt it.

Kris (aqueduct), Monday, 28 April 2003 21:40 (twenty-one years ago) link

Paul Molitor ('96) 9 hr - 113 rbi.

YEAHHH!!! That's what I'm talking about!

Anyone happen to know the record for the most number of RBIs in a season for a homerless hitter?

Andy K (Andy K), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 00:11 (twenty years ago) link

The 80's Cardinals were great. I remember being awed by Jack "the ripper" Clark and his 25 or so home runs. That was true power for a team that couldn't collectively beat Maris's 61. That was back before they brought the fences in at Busch. Sigh.

The brawl we used to imitate in little league was Frank DiPino vs Mark Grace. We knew every gesture and overhand punch. Good times.

bnw (bnw), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 00:28 (twenty years ago) link

My first experience w/ no-hitterdom involved a skillful show of ineptitude by Andy Hawkins and the then-craptastic Yankees. He lost his no-no 4-0, due to a LOT of walks and the occasional dropped fly ball. I listened to the game on the radio - man, John Sterling was a much better announcer when the Yankees sucked.

Lowe's no-no against the Devil Rays is impressive, but it was the Devil Rays. Similar poo-poo can be shoveled onto Bud Smith's walktastic performance, David Cone's perfect game (against Les Expos Terrible) and David Wells' perfect game (against the Twins, back when they were swinging like weeping willows), but only if you're a totally bitter crank (like I am).

Millwood's no-no against a stacked Giants team, however, is super-impressive, especially given how Foppert et. al. pitched. What does this mean? It means I hate baseball fun.

For Andy - Cap Anson drove in 91 in 1893 without the help of a home run. I imagine there's another dead-ball-era hitter that can top that, no doubt.

Supposedly, Rafael Palmeiro has turned into nothing more than another slugger, simply so he can get to 500 HRs. I don't buy it. The Yankee announcers are just jealous.

David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 00:29 (twenty years ago) link

Ryan was old school, from when throwing at a hitter was part of the game. Don Drysdale, Sal Maglie, Bob Gibson, all the pitchers from the '60s on back.

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 01:28 (twenty years ago) link

I know, I thought about hitting 500 home runs and then I was like, it's so devalued now, who needs all that Viagra money.

Even my fave rave Sandy told Lou Brock he was gonna throw at him! One time Brock stole second and third and Sandy told him after, "I don't like to look bad and if you make me look bad again I'm going to have to hit you." If you are a lefty I don't think you want Sandy Koufax throwing the ball at you.

That was BS the other night when Garland got ejected for hitting Mientkiewicz! Those South Siders are such ruffians. They get punished like the bad kid in school.

felicity (felicity), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 02:14 (twenty years ago) link

I like how this thread has gone from no-hitters => hit hitters

felicity (felicity), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 02:15 (twenty years ago) link

I like when Randy Johnson killed the bird in ST.

jm (jtm), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 02:43 (twenty years ago) link

I guess Palmeiro's Quest For 500 is getting a rise out of some folks.

David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 02:43 (twenty years ago) link

"Getting a rise"? I'm not sure why; he's been a VERY valuable contributor to a poor Texas team the past couple years. It's not quite like Jose Canseco or something.

Actually, I think Palmeiro might be the most underrated player in the game. He's a sure first ballet hall-of-famer. Yet if you ask the average baseball fan "who are the greatest players still playing", I don't think his name comes quickly to mind.

Mr. Diamond (diamond), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 03:31 (twenty years ago) link

Also, Mienteiciwixiazc got what was coming to him!

Mr. Diamond (diamond), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 03:31 (twenty years ago) link

Mr. Diamond - please read my last post w/ Viagra in mind, and laugh at my horrid pun.

Middling dipshits that take umbrage w/ superstar pitchers deigning to throw hard stuff inside deserve to get knobbed in the ass or midsection. Actually, most or any hitters that whine / bitch / moan about pitchers throwing inside ("ow my jersey button!") should receive a li'l kiss on the bootay from Uncle Charlie or some such relative.

David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 04:18 (twenty years ago) link

one month passes...
it's like a pop song: no no no no no no...

maura (maura), Thursday, 12 June 2003 06:01 (twenty years ago) link

ten months pass...
Wait, a no-hitter thread with NO mention of Bobo Holloman, Stew Barber, Johnny Vander Meer, OR Bill Rohr (or was it his brother Les - the one who lost a perfect game and no-hitter both by giving up a hit with two outs in the ninth in 1967, I think)?? What the hell? I better fix that...

chuck, Tuesday, 11 May 2004 21:49 (nineteen years ago) link

(Stew Barber?? Guess I meant Stu Miller and Steve Barber. Oh well..)

chuck, Tuesday, 11 May 2004 22:10 (nineteen years ago) link

one month passes...
trying to find out how many no hitter games are averaged in one year since 1960.

Scott Giller, Saturday, 26 June 2004 05:18 (nineteen years ago) link

Be sure to let us know.

Leeefuse 73 (Leee), Saturday, 26 June 2004 05:23 (nineteen years ago) link


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