Magic: The Gathering C/D

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There was a pretty funny article in Salon a couple years ago about the early days at Wizards of the Coast, which apparently resembled a geek version of Fellini's Satiricon, before the company went and sold out to THE MAN.

Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 07:34 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

ok here goes.

if you're going to play magic, you MUST play by tournament rules. you needn't bother playing if there are no limits placed on the composition of the deck. wizards of the coast probably still publishes its "restricted/banned" card list as well. check it out.

when i was about 15 to 16 i played in magic tournaments EVERY sunday, and played recreationally with friends most evenings. yes, you could say that it was a very signifigant part of that time in my very sad teenaged life. at one point in the remote northern alberta town of 35,000 i grew up in there were three comic shops that all pushed magic quite heavily and at least a couple more places where the cards were available. some people took it VERY seriously.

i won't argue that magic is a tremendous cash sucker, and ultimately it taught me nothing about anything (there is little about the game that transfers to other pursuits) but there is a tremendous beauty to the inner workings of the game. it's not just about how much money you spend on it. in tournament settings, i was able to consistently trounce educated adult men with high-paying jobs (engineers, systems analysts) simply by spending a lot of time evaluating how the cards in my deck worked together. quite often the answer is not an "expensive" card but four cheap, nasty ones.

fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 18:20 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

oh and just for the record i don't play anymore and haven't touched a card in about four years.

fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 18:21 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

if you're going to play magic, you MUST play by tournament rules.

Why? I mean, in a tournament of course you do, but what about those of us who are, err, "casual players" as it were and just want a nice game to waste some time with as opposed to a weapon to "consistently trounce educated adult men with high-paying jobs"?

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 23:52 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Tournament rules are for people who actually know all the instant-kill power card combinations. And tournament rules are constantly changing because people figure out new ones.

fletrejet, Thursday, 23 January 2003 00:28 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

but what about those of us who are, err, "casual players" as it were and just want a nice game to waste some time with as opposed to a weapon to "consistently trounce educated adult men with high-paying jobs"?

dude i was like fifteen ...

fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Thursday, 23 January 2003 05:29 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I sold all my cards to some dork for like $20.
I still sometime would like to play, but alas; it is too expensive.

A Nairn (moretap), Thursday, 23 January 2003 05:51 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

dude i was like fifteen ...

Haha, maybe that was a bit too nasty on my part, but still- why not play any way you bloody please (or was that "You MUST..." comment just the way you saw it when you were 15?)

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Thursday, 23 January 2003 11:32 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

If we judge a game by its players, and I judge this by the few people I've ever met or seen who play it, it's as dud as it comes. (This is not meant to comment on the people here, none of whom I have met.)

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 23 January 2003 18:24 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I used to play... PROFESSIONALLY. How sad is that? You can make good money at it to be honest. The saddest thing most times are people who play it. It's 90-95% male, they're all super homophobes too. I used to wear t-shirts that implied I was gay just to mess with the competition.. and to get pictures of me in em in Magic publications (yes, there are a few). I enjoyed the game and the rules, and I met some good people along the way. The best part about Magic players is that they are willing to play almost anything.. so once you get fed up with Magic (which everyone does), they will try any other activity or game (Set, Settlers of Cataan), and jump on it.

I'm going to be branded a geek now.. aren't I?

Christopher (Christopher), Monday, 3 February 2003 22:41 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

This is an internet message board Christopher = we are all geeks.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 3 February 2003 22:44 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

it's fun, if you have money to waste and friends that don't take it seriously.

webber (webber), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 00:07 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I used to wear t-shirts that implied I was gay just to mess with the competition..

Let's count the ways we could parse that sentence, hmm?

Chris P (Chris P), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 01:41 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Let's make that a little clearer... heh.

A lot of Magic players are homophobic (in my experience) and in order to throw them off of their game, I would wear a shirt that symbolized gay pride.

What's really scary is that I'm thinking about playing in a sealed deck PTQ in a couple of weeks just to see if I can still compete after not playing for years.

Christopher (Christopher), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 16:24 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

one year passes...
Who up in this bitch fancies a game of memory M:TG*? I'm bored.

* (the one where you start with no cards in your card, draw one of your choice per turn, and no card can be played twice? It's kinda fun...)

Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Sunday, 18 April 2004 14:34 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I used to play a lot around 14-16 and did pretty good, but when I think
of all the money I spent on cards that just sit in boxes up in my closet
I get all teary-eyed. Those should be records sitting idle, not cards!

stephen morris (stephen morris), Sunday, 18 April 2004 16:35 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Dud as hell. When I was 12 or 13 or so I went with my friend (who was into Magic cards at the time) to a Magic the Gathering "tournament" being held at the local Barnes & Noble. While my friend was playing Magic with someone, I walked around watching the others in attendance. At one table this guy playing said something like "I'm playing the Wall of Flame card". This other guy at the table said, "I'm gonna play the Wall of Pubic Hair card, hehehehhehe" in this horribly nasal and stereotypically nerdy voice. That was when I realized that there were people far nerdier than I could ever be.

latebloomer (latebloomer), Sunday, 18 April 2004 17:24 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

three months pass...
The game itself = Classic: it will be around for years to come, probably our nerdier kids will be into it or some incarnation of it.

The "90-95% super homophobe" players mentioned above = DUD. If I was rich (xpost it's expensive xpost) I'd probably play Magic Online, and not have to see the fat guys with "horribly nasal and stereotypically nerdy voices" that unfortunately define the game.

Richard K (Richard K), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 03:55 (twelve years ago) Permalink

I can't believe I never posted to this thread. I probably spent twenty bucks on it total, maybe thirty. It was one summer, a fun thing, a moment in time, a nice little cultural artifact.

teeny (teeny), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 04:06 (twelve years ago) Permalink

three years pass...

i've been having a lot of "fun" playing with the old cards I rescued from my mom's house. i refuse to spend another cent on the game, however.

ian, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:09 (nine years ago) Permalink

a couple years ago i went to a card & comix shop and built a decent blue-white deck for like $4.00, but all the newer card editions just had all these new retarded esoteric abilities that i had no idea about

elmo argonaut, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:16 (nine years ago) Permalink

also, the art was all these, like, cyber dragons and BULLSHIT

elmo argonaut, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:21 (nine years ago) Permalink

We should start an ILG thread where we play against each other using SCANNERS.

nickalicious, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:25 (nine years ago) Permalink

i only played magic for the first time a few weeks ago, how weird is that? i was intimidated by the kids who played it in high school, but it's not half as complicated as i thought.

bell_labs, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:50 (nine years ago) Permalink

you should have been more intimidated by their allowances

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:56 (nine years ago) Permalink

and/or dedication to blowing every dollar earned at the drive-thru window sunday 5am-1:30pm on crazy junk instead of like cigarettes and cds

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:57 (nine years ago) Permalink

that is correct i am calling you bustas out

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:57 (nine years ago) Permalink

what are you talking about, i pinched a franklin from my dad's wallet to buy a mox jet

elmo argonaut, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:01 (nine years ago) Permalink

haha, i think i was most intimidated by their cliquish aspie superiority complexes.

i think it's really fun now though.

bell_labs, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:03 (nine years ago) Permalink

ok these prices are so retarded omg

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:06 (nine years ago) Permalink

people should all be blown up

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:06 (nine years ago) Permalink

in my middle school the biggest fight i got into was between pog players and m:tg players

max, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:09 (nine years ago) Permalink

i was obviously a magic player

max, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:09 (nine years ago) Permalink

green & white deck, in case anyone is wondering

max, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:10 (nine years ago) Permalink

omg pog

deeznuts, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:12 (nine years ago) Permalink

if i remember those years correctly i was more worried about the shame my seminoles starter jacket would bring me after danny wuerrfle's gators pounced on them in the orange bowl than anything having to do with those fucking things

deeznuts, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:14 (nine years ago) Permalink

I used to play magic back in the mid-nineties, I still have a hundreds and hundreds of those cards in some box around here. I never paid much for them though, because I stole most of them from bookstores. I wonder if that stuff is worth something these days, the oldest cards I have are from Revised Edition or whatever it was called.

Tuomas, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:24 (nine years ago) Permalink

god, my nerd days were spent playing Avalon Hill wargames. and banging chicks of course

brownie, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:26 (nine years ago) Permalink

my best nerd days are ahead of me still.

bell_labs, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:27 (nine years ago) Permalink

mine did not look quite as good as this one but I got pretty good

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:38 (nine years ago) Permalink

i had a revised shivan dragon worth $50

max, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:38 (nine years ago) Permalink

and my color selections were more noise

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:38 (nine years ago) Permalink

haha shivan dragon. back in 1995 my friend's proudest accomplishment was owning 4 shivan dragons. I wonder if those cards are worth anything today.

burt_stanton, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:04 (nine years ago) Permalink

blue + black deck, my sengir vampires and royal assassins were so so gangster.

deej, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:10 (nine years ago) Permalink

i had two revised royal assassins

deej, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:10 (nine years ago) Permalink

maybe more, hell if i remember

deej, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:11 (nine years ago) Permalink

at my 10th bday party i beat the rich kid in magic even tho i had no allowance, i had birthday money and was a HUSTLER with trades

deej, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:12 (nine years ago) Permalink

i think sometimes i threw in some green too, but only if u could throw all mana down first turn and i would use it solely for my force of nature

deej, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:18 (nine years ago) Permalink


deej, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:18 (nine years ago) Permalink

i have a shivan dragon signed by the lady what painted it ;_;

Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:25 (nine years ago) Permalink

is it just me or does this card singlehandedly kill a lot of decks


frogbs, Wednesday, 21 June 2017 14:08 (one month ago) Permalink

i hate counter's

ciderpress, Wednesday, 21 June 2017 14:25 (one month ago) Permalink

Supreme Will and The Locust God are the only cards i particularly like in this set so far

ciderpress, Wednesday, 21 June 2017 14:48 (one month ago) Permalink

Solemnity also auto-cracks Dark Depths

I like the new Angel that blinks and exiles.

Moodles, Wednesday, 21 June 2017 15:27 (one month ago) Permalink

overrun at +2/+2 probably still p gross

Roberto Spiralli, Friday, 30 June 2017 15:26 (three weeks ago) Permalink

gameplay-wise this set looks more similar to its parent set than any of the previous few small sets - afflict isn't really a game-changer so the only real change is the A/B mechanic goes from trial/cartouche to deserts

ciderpress, Friday, 30 June 2017 15:28 (three weeks ago) Permalink

yeah i was thinking the same. aggressive again. on board complexity maybe a little higher.

Roberto Spiralli, Friday, 30 June 2017 15:33 (three weeks ago) Permalink

It's weird having a set with nothing that feels pushed/dangerous - I'm kinda foggy on how the power budget for this kind of thing is meted out, like it makes sense to have 'pendulums' but it feels a bit like a set which just arbitrarily got the short straw from a constructed POV.

Gravel Puzzleworth, Saturday, 1 July 2017 23:03 (three weeks ago) Permalink

yeah this set is really hiding its constructed power if it's there - even the biggest flop of recent times, Born of the Gods, still had one blatant format staple in Courser of Kruphix

ciderpress, Saturday, 1 July 2017 23:09 (three weeks ago) Permalink

i do think most of the rare Eternalize guys are good and Earthshaker Khenra should be an auto-include in red aggro if that deck exists, but i don't know that any of them are as high impact as you'd expect from the best cards in a set

ciderpress, Saturday, 1 July 2017 23:15 (three weeks ago) Permalink

yeah this set has the feel of a major blunder, worse than born of the gods possibly. weakest turnout i've seen at a boston prerelease in 6 years, including core sets. the 5 HOU rares in my pool were not particularly playable, i went 1-1 with common green creatures and an overrun and then dropped because i was tired and bored.

ciderpress, Saturday, 8 July 2017 18:20 (two weeks ago) Permalink


Roberto Spiralli, Saturday, 8 July 2017 18:36 (two weeks ago) Permalink

The high volume of multicolor rares make deckbuilding in sealed kind of a pain, especially when you are trying to balance that against Desert synergies.

Moodles, Saturday, 8 July 2017 18:38 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Of course, it could just be that I got a weird pool of cards. I had Nicol Bolas, which is utterly ridiculous and pretty much unbeatable, but my other rares were Reason to Believe, Temmet, Abandoned Sarcophgus, Dread Wanderer, Hostile Desert, and Scavenger Grounds. So 3 multicolor cards that only had blue in common, and then 2 colorless lands. Luckily Bolas balanced out the utter worthlessness of the other rares. After trying out an ill-conceived 5-color build, I landed on G/R beatdown splashing for Nicol Bolas, which was pretty solid.

Moodles, Saturday, 8 July 2017 21:12 (two weeks ago) Permalink

yeah there were a lot of spots open in nyc prereleases too. I had a fun 3 unsummon tempo deck and lost to glorybringer in the finals, as one does.

it was fun (mostly because I played interesting games against good players and not 10 y/os) but does feel like a super forgettable set already. eternalize is the new megamorph.

iatee, Sunday, 9 July 2017 00:15 (two weeks ago) Permalink

iatee i'm one trophy ahead of you in the vintage cube competition you didn't know we were having and times running out...

Roberto Spiralli, Monday, 10 July 2017 01:55 (two weeks ago) Permalink

i realized recently that you can filter the trophy lists by your buddy list which provides a good source of motivation

ciderpress, Monday, 10 July 2017 01:58 (two weeks ago) Permalink

my buddy list is just trade bots lol

Roberto Spiralli, Monday, 10 July 2017 02:03 (two weeks ago) Permalink

ha! well roberto it's good to know I was grinding those leagues for *some* reason. I got one more last night and ended with 13 so we might have tied unless you also got another one. I would def have more if I just kept to a 'never draft storm ever' philosophy.

iatee, Monday, 10 July 2017 16:35 (two weeks ago) Permalink

I think mono-w was underrated in the cube, I had a lot of success with it. as long as you got a few pushed pieces like a mox, strip mine, etc. you were gonna get 100% of the rest of the deck, so you could aggressively grab anything someone else might want (eg STP, Wasteland) knowing that the cards you needed more like thalia would wheel.

iatee, Monday, 10 July 2017 16:42 (two weeks ago) Permalink

mono-w is free wins in all of the mtgo cubes. i guess most people find it boring

ciderpress, Monday, 10 July 2017 16:48 (two weeks ago) Permalink

legacy dnt is my pet deck so I find it pretty fun. I think people think mono-red is boring but super powerful while mono-w is boring but a bit underpowered. my guess is that's because they build and play it wrong. limited manabases are very tight on colors so stuff like revoker/relic warder your signet and waste your dual will often win a game.

iatee, Monday, 10 July 2017 17:14 (two weeks ago) Permalink

also underrated - commit to memory, which I think is in the high tier of blue cards, but always seems to wheel. new cards that people have to read tend to be underrated for a while.

iatee, Monday, 10 July 2017 17:16 (two weeks ago) Permalink

i played one match vs the guy who topped the board with ~45 trophies. he was running a mono W smokestack/resource denial deck. i beat him with my...BW smokestack deck

iatee i got 14. i thought i was done sunday early evening and just thought to take a look to see if you guys were playing. i saw you had 13 too and i was like, ok one more. pulled it out with a W deck w/ light U splash.

so yeah, i think we're all on the same page! i drafted base G a bunch too because it seemed opened all the time. but also always have my share of "this seems like it will be fun" decks

Roberto Spiralli, Monday, 10 July 2017 17:47 (two weeks ago) Permalink

I try not to draft ramp because I hate playing green. it's def one of the stronger archetypes, but I loathe pure ramp in all formats. would rather play mono-red.

it's interesting that the guy w/ 45 trophies was on smokestack, I wonder if he plays it a lot and it's secretly underrated or something. I generally try to avoid smokestack and wildfire type strategies, they just seem to require too many pieces (many of which are in high demand) and they don't even guarantee a win when you have them all. in total I think I played against exactly one deck that beat me with smokestack.
attrition strategies don't feel as great when everyone is topdecking powerful swingy cards - like I think LotV is actually fairly overrated in cube.

wildfire decks are a little better because you can do a lot of simultaneous things w/ big artifact ramp / tinkerer effects.

iatee, Monday, 10 July 2017 18:58 (two weeks ago) Permalink

iirc his deck was a p classic white weenie cube deck of the kind that tries to get value/disruptive low drops down and then blow resources up with an armageddon or stack. mine was more token makers, clamp, stack/braids except i sided those out against him.

Roberto Spiralli, Monday, 10 July 2017 19:37 (two weeks ago) Permalink

it's not really something i look for often but when you can get braids or stack down turn 3 and follow up with souls or ophiomancer that doesn't leave a ton of outs. and that kind of deck is resilient to/can run wraths and recover a board presence quickly.

Roberto Spiralli, Monday, 10 July 2017 19:42 (two weeks ago) Permalink

weird, I never consider ss in ww, maybe I should be.

I think those stack/braids openings *do* leave a ton of outs. e.g. bolt your braids/ophiomancer. so many of the token makers are easy to kill. so you ultimately have a one-key-spell game plan which also just loses to counterspells without even winning 100% of the time when you do resolve your one key spell. plus you can't really play blue, which also neuters you deck.

iatee, Monday, 10 July 2017 22:11 (two weeks ago) Permalink

For you guys that play MTGO a lot: are you basically infinite at this point or do you still have to put money into the game sometimes? And which format gets you the most value? I remember the calculator frogbs linked but curious if you all have a format where your winrate is particularly high. After about three years of not having to put in money, I am totally out of tix/points/cards to sell and I've been putting off paying again cause of wounded pride. HoD will be a fine set to skip it seems anyway

Vinnie, Tuesday, 11 July 2017 01:21 (two weeks ago) Permalink

been pondering this a lot lately myself. Been slowly talking myself into investing in a standard or modern deck (or both) for MTGO so that I can get more reps in, but I don't know if this is the best way to build value or a collection. Limited definitely doesn't seem to be the best route for me, but I play much more constructed IRL.

Moodles, Tuesday, 11 July 2017 02:01 (two weeks ago) Permalink

i've had a couple good stretches, nearly a year once and another time 6 months, but it is super hard to do playing (non-phantom) limited only. the ingredients for the stretches i had were consecutive formats that clicked and also had decent card value but for true infinite you have to be really good, like 1900+ the whole time. i've heard in the past of ppl (marshall lr?) playing constructed to pay for limited but idk if that is still a thing with current payouts.

Roberto Spiralli, Tuesday, 11 July 2017 02:15 (two weeks ago) Permalink

i put a lot of money in a long time ago and have basically been bleeding out extremely slowly ever since they got rid of daily events.

constructed play is still sustainable if you're average or better. sealed you have to be pretty good to break even, draft is a losing game unless you're among the best players.

ciderpress, Tuesday, 11 July 2017 03:18 (two weeks ago) Permalink

I've moved to online poker lately, but I definitely think I've been breaking even in the friendly sealeds, which admittedly are not the most fun event

frogbs, Tuesday, 11 July 2017 03:19 (two weeks ago) Permalink

yeah going infinite off limited is pretty tough, esp if the current set doesn't have many chase rares. I usually build the mtgo bankroll other places and play current limited for fun. I borrowed modern dredge from a friend to prep for the last gp and it really felt like I was printing money. playing a tier 1 constructed deck at above average competency in leagues seems like the way to go.

flashback drafts have also been pretty good to me, I like to get good at all these old formats w/ decent money rares. I think people walk into those queues expecting to lose / have a good time, so they can be weirdly high value.

iatee, Tuesday, 11 July 2017 04:28 (two weeks ago) Permalink

flashback drafts are super soft yes. especially for sets prior to like innistrad or RTR which was when the biggest influx of players happened i think. most people just don't know which cards are good in old sets and don't care enough to learn for a 1 week event.

ciderpress, Tuesday, 11 July 2017 04:45 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Yeah I think I underestimated how much of my winrate/card value was from flashback drafts. I was doing about 50/50 flashback and latest set drafts for a while - when draft leagues became a thing, I basically stopped the flashbacks. Kaladesh + Aether Revolt quickly dwindled what I had built up

Vinnie, Tuesday, 11 July 2017 05:45 (two weeks ago) Permalink

first draft went pretty well, I think I solved this format

iatee, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 02:42 (two weeks ago) Permalink

seems decent

Roberto Spiralli, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 02:57 (two weeks ago) Permalink

my first hand in the format was 4 basics, cycle land, 3/2 white lifelink 3 drop and an aven initiate, that i kept with a sigh thinking to myself 'this ain't cube any more kid'

Roberto Spiralli, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 03:02 (two weeks ago) Permalink

The ol' draft Nicol Bolas strategy.

Moodles, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 03:07 (two weeks ago) Permalink

the browser triple threat...

ciderpress, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 03:44 (two weeks ago) Permalink

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